That's great Rose. Wonderful that you would be willing to put in the time and effort to help the site progress and also to help people who have the means to pay become members by maybe advising them or assisting them on their method of payment!

I'm now anxious for some feedback from Fencer and Liquid on this as I do feel it has potential to increase site revenue and volume of paid members!

Blaze

Thanks for your response harley!

I believe your posting verifies some of the points I made in mine. The fact that it can be a challenge finding methods of payment. Well done for taking the time to actually look into the various options and also for your willingness to advise and assist other people in gaining membership!

If there were someone like yourself from every country where people are wanting to become members I feel this site would gain more and more paid members; clearly the problems vary from country to country. I believe there would be many British members willing to send you a postal order in lieu of your subscribing them through paypal so you may have your work cut out there! Lol. Needless to say it's great you support the site and are prepared to assist people in becoming paid members.

Would perhaps be beneficial to the site if Fencer selected a couple of representatives from each country (where members exist) in order to help people find ways of becoming paid members!

Blaze

Firstly I must apologise for the length of this posting. It was difficult to say what I had to say without being a tad repetative; however I hope you will read through it nonetheless. It is probably the longest posting on the site so far :(

I would like to bring another side to this discussion and that is the fact that buying a membership may be complicated for some people; those who could afford it with some cutbacks but are nonetheless in difficult social situation.

There are many reasons I am putting this view forward and I realise there are a large number of members this doesn't apply to, but would just like rooks to have some comprehension of one of the reasons other people don't become paid members.

1. The SWREG page is complicated and quite daunting for someone who has never bought anything online and has no personal experience of this.

2. The implication is that payment has to be made by credit card even though that isn't apprently the case. Once you are on the SWREG page there is a PURCHASE button. I'm sure there are people who visit that page curious to know if they can pay by postal order or cheque yet worry that pressing the PURCHASE button commits them (via their membership number) when all they were doing was trying to find out the methods of payment to see if there is any possible way at all they can buy a membership (I'm talking about people without credit cards here). If they do press the button they are given 6 options...

a) CREDIT CARD online now (no processing fee except for Diners Club + 4%)
b) CREDIT CARD by FAX (+ $3.00 manual processing fee)
c) CREDIT CARD by PHONE (+ $3.00 manual processing fee)
d) PRO-FORMA INVOICE by CHECK or WIRE (+ $3.00 (check) or + $18.00 (wire) manual processing fee)
e) CHECK by US or UK checks or International Money Orders (+ $3.00 manual processing fee)
f) PAYPAL (+ $3.00 manual processing fee)

Well those options don't mean a thing to someone with no credit card or cheque account with a bank or to someone who has only ever dealt in cash and not through banks; also the SWREG page gets even scarier and asks for home details at the stage whereby some people have no comprehension of the various options and are reluctant to commit just yet!

Is 'check' the same thing as the british 'cheque'? If so, many people don't have a cheque book! And what is an 'international money order'? Is it the same thing as a postal order?

3. In reference again to point 2, the complexity of how to pay, I would make certain observations:

In the three + years I have been online, most of the British people I have known well online have been unemployed! These are the type of people very likely to be prepared to pay for a membership. They have so much time online and plenty of time for games. By 'unemployed' I don't mean through choice, so please don't advise that these people should simply 'get a job'. Some are disabled and off work due to illness, others have children or are at home in the role of 'carer' to someone elderly, yet still have substantial spare time for online activities and games sites.

In England it is very difficult to get a cheque account with a bank if you aren't working as your credit scoring is poor even if you have savings and no debts! It is also virtually impossible to get a credit card if you are unemployed and don't have a steady wage coming in, again because credit scoring is a factor. These are the people in my opinion who are most likely to be purchasing (or wanting to purchase) a membership, yet without a bank account or credit card, how easy is it to buy membership? It's not like these people can simply go to the local supermarket and buy a membership! So however good their intentions are, it may not be that easy if they have no access to finance in the way that working people do. I don't know if this applies predominantely to England or if there are other countries that are reluctant to give cheque book bank accounts to people on income support or the unemployed.

Many unemployed people in England do everything by cash, pay their bills by 'cash' in the post offices, buy weekly stamps from the post office for tv license, gas, electric, water rates etc etc and exist without a bank account! Is England behind the times or are banks just reluctant to risk giving credit to people who don't have a regular income?

I believe there are more people here who would become paid members if it were more simple to do so (unemployed people in particular, the people who benefit most from being able to play more games at a time).

I know there are people here who probably can't relate, but whilst it's easy for British people with no credit card or cheque account to pay general bills (including their ISP connection) at the post office, it isn't so easy to buy membership on a site like this when the general impression from the SWREG page is that you need credit card or cheque book bank account to become a member.

I agree with Dmitri that in most cases (though not all) there will always be something everyone can cut back on in order to afford a membership here. If someone is that desperate for a membership (and to some peope this site is a large part of their day to day routine and their only social life) they will find a way to pay even if it means putting by some money each week for a few weeks until the initial payment is saved. I also believe Dmitri is correct with his statement about cable tv and the other 5 points he mentioned (but only in the context of a single person whereby no decisions would impact on an entire family).

Maybe some people say they 'can't afford' to buy membership simply because it is complicated to buy membership without a credit card. How many people here with no access to credit card, cheque book or bank account would write in and ask if there is any other way to pay without feeling a little silly since they are probably in the minority. Most people would be too proud to admit they have no bank account, cheque book, or credit card. Unemployed people get criticised enough as it is. People are too quick to judge them for not working, and there could be so many reasons (illness, caring for children, caring for elderly parents etc etc) not just unwillingness to work.

I would ask you to read the above carefully so that there are no misunderstandings. I didn't post this to begin a flame war or to open an 'employed versus unemployed' debate! I am simply putting forward the 'paid versus non-paid' members debate from a different angle.

Though not realistically possible I am curious to know how many pawns without access to credit card or cheque book would buy a membership here if it was as simple as popping into a supermarket and buying it over the counter.

My point is that it isn't always about ability to pay as in financial means. Ability to pay can refer to methods of payment also.

I would challenge anyone with a sensible opinion on this to reply to this here, or perhaps move it over to the general chat board.



Solutions?

Fencer, is there a way you could create a page that says clearly and simply the different methods people can become paid members? Something much more simple and less daunting than the SWREG page perhaps but more detailed that the information on the How to Pay page? I appreciate option 3 is available for people who have no credit card or cheque account, but many people are unaware what a money order is. For example, would it be the equivalent of a british 'postal order' or does it refer to cash? I believe it would be helpful to have that information readily available in simple terms somewhere within the site (perhaps on the FAQ page where there is already some reference to payment) as some people may avoid writing to info@brainking.com for fear of appearing naive. I do however appreciate that this is more complicated due to the different countries people come from. The information will surely vary based upon where people are from, therefore needs to be fairly longwinded to cover all countries?

Again if there is a way that people with no bank account, cheque book, or credit card can buy a membership, please if at all possible, give reference to that, somewhere within the site! It would surely be helpful to make it possible for unemployed people or people from a lower social class (with no cheque book or credit card) to buy a membership if it is their wish to do so. Unemployed people, disabled people. carers of children or the elderly etc, are the people who DO have the time to play many games at once. In my opinion by appealing to these people and making it possible for them to buy a membership with ease, (ie making information simplified and readily available!) this site will gain many more paid members.

I really do feel strongly about this as statistics would perhaps show that it is the people who have MORE online time who would find it MORE DIFFICULT to pay (payment methods not just budget!).

People with credit cards are already paying. How about targeting the people without! :)

I think people are willing to pay and would like to do so if it were more clarified and easier to do so! Perhaps proof that this isn't about lack of finances is the fact that there are more rooks than knights. Once people have sorted out a payment method the issue becomes less about how much!

Blaze

Thanks Fencer, and three cheers for liquid for such dedication! :)

Fencer, the new dropdown menu system on submitting moves is good. General feeling is that it would be beneficial if the move button was wider however. It's more difficult to aim the mouse at the smaller button (particularly for people using 1024 x 768 screen definition) and the feelings of people I have spoken to are that a button of similar width to the original button would be easier to manoeuvre. The dropdown menu is cool.

Would it take much to widen the move button?

Blaze

BTW, connectivity seems way better tonight. No downtime here!

A huge Thank You to Fencer for creating and now updating the BrainKing info Pages.

BrainKing Info now has 5 informative pages: News, Technical Info, Company Info, Known Bugs and a Support Us page.

Information there is a true indication of what a great site this is, so please take a look and I'm sure you will all join me in thanking Fencer for keeping us so well informed!

Blaze

I second harley on the feedback issue! So thanks for the update Fencer. I look forward to the techie info too :)

I think everyone should be aware that not only does Fencer have a day-job, he also has a family. In fact it's amazing and admirable how he has found the time to put together this brilliant site and also the time he devotes to improving and stabolizing the site now it's here.

I would ask everyone to be patient. Fencer has little enough time as it is and for what it's worth I think he's doing a great job!

Also, a brief note to other brain pawns... we have to remember that Fencer is providing us with a free service here, which is very good of him; therefore much as downtime has been frustrating I really don't think it's constructive to criticise too much. It's a service and one which we brain pawns are not even paying for. I, for one, appreciate the times when we are able to connect and make our moves!

Thanks again Fencer, for all the time you devote in addition to your other committments, and also for not being a stranger to us on the boards - as harley rightly says, we really do appreciate the feedback!

Blaze

I second that, or should I say third or fourth that.

Looks like the site has been down to all.

Blaze

Harley, I had the same problem here. Solved it by setting it to 80 messages per page, so only 19 pages listed. I'm thinking if you have the same problem, it could be to do with the numbers just above that go across the page linking to all the previous pages on this board. For some reason once the numbers fill the width of the middle frame, they don't start a new line, consequently the middle frame just gets wider and wider. Maybe something for Fencer to look into.

Blaze

For the past couple of weeks I've noticed that brainking has experienced downtime every evening, on average a couple of hours per evening starting at around 8pm GMT. Often it's back up and running by 10pm, but on ocassion has been down again shortly afterwards until around midnight GMT. These problems are occuring every day here, and whilst intermittent, there does seem to be a pattern to the times we're getting the page cannot be displayed errors.

I've spoken to a few other people who are having problems getting on the site between those times and was wondering whether this is just a temporary problem, or something caused by rush hour traffic...lol.

This is a really great site and I'm sure you'll all agree that Fencer is highly dedicated to it! I for one, appreciate all the time and effort he devotes to the site, both in keeping it running and also in research and providing such a good range of games! Keep up the excellent work Fencer!
Everyone agree this is the best games site there is? :)

Also wondering... is there any way you would be able to update the brainking info site when downtime is expected to last a while or if there is a known cause. We would really appreciate the updates!

Blaze

Seems OK here. Clocks in England went forward an hour yesterday, so in theory we are in British Summer Time now rather than GMT. My settings say GMT, yet time is perfectly correct to take into account the clocks going forward last night.

Maybe everyone else has been put forward an hour too?

Blaze

Anyone else getting "The page cannot be displayed" errors? Been that way on and off here for the past few hours, whilst other sites seem to be loading without error.

Blaze

Having problems accessing this site.
"Page cannot be displayed" & "cannot find server" errors plentiful, along with the partial loading whereby a page remains totally blank (or just the background loads) yet "done" appears just above my taskbar. Frustrating.

Blaze

Fencer, the small pente and keyro pente games look fun.

Love the alternate colours option and ability to set up more than one game invitation at a time when creating new games. That's great and will save alot of time when setting up the games!

Also, congratulations on exceeding 4000 registered players - this site is ace!

Blaze

Angus, I think you have to resign each individual game in the match separately. When you resign the first game in the match, the next game will appear on your status page. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong here. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your question?

Blaze

Click the My Profile link on the left of the page.

Click the Edit link.

There you will see a dropdown menu for "Select your Country".

Select your country, then click Submit.

Hopefully that should give you a flag.

Blaze

It will be great to see some normality return to this board. Best of luck Harley :)

Will you be moderating the General Chat board and other boards too, or just this one?

Linda aka Blaze

JonDownie, this isn't the IYT Ladder Group over at Yahoo. If you must question whether or not people are using the correct board, please do that over at the General Chat Board not on this one. In fact anything not related to games should be posted on the GC board. Just by starting a debate over which board people should be using, and doing it here, don't you realise that you yourself are actually posting off-topic too?

Blaze

Why do you insist on DELETING your previous messages in order to keep on REPOSTING them so that they appear as NEW MESSAGES on the top of the board? Works out that even though there is little evidence of this, you are posting almost every minute.

Someone should speak to Fencer about your use of bandwidth.

And what happened to the use of the GC board?

Blaze

Try this one:
General Chat Board

Hi Edward :)
General Chat Board
is the best place for this.

"but I'm new here and I tried to find the General Chat board but couldn't seem to find it"

http://www.brainking.com/game/Board?bc=181

That's great. But go and be "happy happy happy" on the General Chat board rather than on a site related board :))

I see that danoschek has remained popular as always (not)... but WHY post that stuff here? It's an insult to Fencer and Brainking.com that you (and by "you" I mean anyone who has participated in the recent flame war) chose this board to post your nonsence on, hence shadowing the postings of anyone who wants to post up about brainking.com itself; hasn't that occured to any of you? Least of all because Fencer went to the trouble of supplying us with a General Chat board yesterday. If nothing else you should have enough respect to stay on-topic on THIS board and post your other stuff on the General Chat board.

Blaze