Fencer, a while ago, I asked you to add Phonetic Symbols to the smileys or somewhere else on the site. Now that we have this board, I think it's quite benefitial to have them. Here's a link to them as the appear in Oxford Advanced Learners Dictionary:

http://www.oupchina.com.hk/dict/phonetic/home.html

Rose: According the way they read the word, in my opinion congradulations is a better spelling. Just as in during that is really pronounced with a J sound. But that's the way it is. Congratulations is written with a T, not a D.

Rose: And about Congratulations, my assumption is:

The word Congratulations, according to dictionaries is pronounced /kengratsuleisnz/, with a CH sound, but people read it with a J (as in jam) sound which can occure just if a D sound and a Y sound come together, like in soldier which has originally been soldYer. So people think there must hav ebeen a D in congratulations too!

Rose: The mistakes are mostly because the pronunciation of the two choices are the same.

Regarding just pronunciation:

You're = your
There = They're = Their

Fencer: I wonder what Liquid means by that ....

What does this say?

...aneb, jo jo, pořád se něco děje.

Fencer: Wow! So Fencer, can you translate this too?

اين گوگل چه کار ها که ازش نمی آيد

Eriisa: Let me translate the Question marks for you. Oh, and the commas!

There's a very interesting article I have about these problems with English:

Crazy English

English is crazy language. There's no egg in eggplant or ham in hamburger, neither apple nor pine in pineapple.

English muffins were not invented in England or French fries in France. Sweetmeats are candies, while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet, are meat.

we take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are suare and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig!

And why is it that writers write, but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham?

If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn't the plural of booth beeth? One goose, two geese. So one moose, two meese? One index, two indices? is cheese the plural of choose?

If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught? If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital? Ship by truck and send cargo by ship? Have noses that run and feet that smell? Park on driveways and drive on parkways?

How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites? How can weather be hot as hell one day and cold as hell another?

When a house burns up, it burns down. You fill in a form by filling it out and an alarm clock goes off by going on.

When the stars are out, they are visible, but when the lights are out, they are invisible. And why, when I wind up my watch, I start it, but when I wind up this essey, I end it?

Now I know why I fluncked my English. It's not my fault; the language doesn't quite know whether it's coming or going.

I have a problem with syllable divisions.

Take the word extra for example. It's pronounced /ekstra/. How do I know that it's /e.kstra/ or /ek.stra/ or /eks.tra/ or /ekst.ra/ ?

Lamby: Thanks. It's a great board because there are a bunch of great people posting on it.

Thnaks for the explanation you gave us. So let me see if I've got it correctly:

If the government bans something, it means we're disallowd or not permitted to use it anymore. So basically it's forbidden from then on to use that thing and if they see us by chance that we're gonna use it, they'll prevent us from doing that.


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Hrqls: Try this link Pedro is currently using an dyou may like it :

http://www.easypersian.com/

:-)

I have another problem with choice of vocabulary. What is the difference between these words?

banned, prohibited, forbidden, prevented, disallowed, unpermitted

take these examples:

1) He was found guilty of dangerous driving and ... from driving for three years.

2) Smoking is strictly ... on underground trains in London

3) Because he got home two hours late, he was ... to go out for a week.

4) Relatives were not ... to viist patients at any time other than weekday afternoons between five and six.

Pedro Martínez: It does make sense, but I'm glad they don't make us learn Czeck in university :-)

Fencer: What does it mean you have seven cases of nouns?

Pedro Martínez: 7 cases of what?

Walter Montego: Thanks for the post. So I take it the use of these words is related to the distance one is going or what?

If it's related to the distance, then how ould you arrange them from the shortest to the longest?

excursion trip journey voyage ?

But you also mentioned that journey has some sort of difficulty in it. So that's a good point to have in mind.


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Hrqls: Learning Greek would be logical to me, but what would you need ancient Greek for?

My choices are:

1)journey
2)trip
3)trip or maybe even tour?
4)excursion
5)trip

Pedro Martínez: I agree. Just like the English people never think on using He or She but I have to mak eup my mind if it's a He I'm talking baout or a She. In Farsi thre's no gender-related pronoun. So basically be you a man or a woman, you're always تو and He or She are both او .

What would you fill each of these blanks with?

• 1) My ... to work took more than 2 hours this morning.
  
• 2) For our holidays next year, we're going on a ten-day ... to Australia.
  
  
• 3) We always go on a day ... to France in December to buy Christmas presents.
  
  
• 4) The price of this holiday includes a full-day ... to a place of cultural interest.
  
  
• 5) He's hoping to go on a(n) ... to the Himalayas next year.
  

Walter Montego: Farsi has only one article too. And it's a definite article. However, unlike English, it's added to the end of a noun instead of the beginning of it.

Walter, Do you have any explanation regarding Trip, Travel, Journey, Voyage, Excursion?

Hrqls: I was gonna ask you if you knew what they stand for, and you gave it to me yourself!

They are easier to memorize if I know what they stand for.

Thanks.

Pedro Martínez: It's interesting how languages, especially European ones, have similar words.

Haha! It worked

Hrqls: Thanks for the dot explanation :-)

• I
  
• you
  
• he
  

Pedro Martínez: Just out of curiosity Pedro, does this krokodýli hav eanything to do with crocodiles?

Hrqls: Well, I'm almost certain about the voyage one. It's a trip or journey by sea. Water should be involved somehow.

Let's wait for our native friends to give us a hand with it.

By the way, how do you make those black dots?

Pedro Martínez: The explanation you provided supports what that link Marfitalu gave us and the book I have. So I guess it's all clear now what the difference really is.

English is full of words that are different in English, but in Farsi we use the same, or almost the same words for them.

Trip, Travel, Journy, Voyage, Excursion are a few such words.

I know how voyage is different from others, it's a trip by sea, but the rest are quite similar.

Take these examples:

1) My ... to work took more than 2 hours this morning.
2) For our holidays next year, we're going on a ten-day ... to Australia.

3) We always go on a day ... to France in December to buy Christmas presents.

4) The price of this holiday includes a full-day ... to a place of cultural interest.

5) He's hoping to go on a(n) ... to the Himalayas next year.

Mr. Shumway and Pedro: Interesting.

Marfitalu: So do you have any idea if that VISTA is any related to VISIT in English?

I bet it must be. Both the spelling and meaning are quite similar.

Walter Montego: If it means that, then maybe VISTA comes from visit ?

Any Spanish speaker to help us?

True. I sometimes just like the structure. Like if you've seen The Lord of The Rings I, I have memorized the part at the beginning of the movie, when the woman is telling the story of the ring! That's I think around ten minutes, of speach!

I'll check on that song later. I'll see if I can find it for download.

Walter Montego: What does it mean? Do you know?

Walter Montego: I don't know what it means, but I've heard it in Terminator II.

Walter Montego: Honestly speaking some of the sentences I hear in the movies do have dramatic effects! I memorize many of them just because they are appealing to my mind and ears, and some are good to be in my mind for when I need to use them.

From a movie named SAW:

Now I see you as a strange mix of someone angry an dyet apathetic, but mostly just pathetic.

Most peopel are so ungrateful to be alive.

I'm sick of the desease eating away at me inside, sick of those who don't appreciate their blessings, sick of those who scoff at the suffering of others ...

Walter: True. Infinitive is just what you said. Here in my books, go is named an infinitive without to as you mentioned.

English is indeed a hard language to learn. I've learnt it because I really like it. There are many people here that can speak it fluently and far better than I do, though almost all of them have been abroad to an English-speaking country for a few years.

You've learnt your language just the way I've learnt mine. It wasn't until when I was 10 that they started telling me what a subject is, what an object is, etc. But even before that I used them in their appropriate positions.

I very often hear grammatically wrong sentences in your movies and that does show that you don't care about these things so much. But I guess there should be a proper English according to your grammar books at least. I guess it's just like what they call Proper Pronunciation. What you see written in dictionaries but hardly hear in the movies or when people are talking. I take it if you ever see me talking, you may start to laugh since almost all words I use are said according to what Oxford Advanced Dictionary or Webster's Dictionary say.

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ScarletRose : "Have to" and "Must" are the same meaning.. they just show the emotion of the user a bit more..

That's exactly what I am most interested in. I don't want people to get different emotions from what I have.

According to the rules I gave you in my previous post, if I say to my wife :

I really must stay in the office and finish some papers, so we can't go out for dinner tonight.

She may say:

Oh, come on! can't you just put it off for tomorrow>

Because her languag eintuition tells her that I'm using Must and that shows that I myself am forcing myself to do that, so there must be a way out of it.

But if I say to her:

I really have to stay in the office and finish some papers, so we can't go out for dinner tonight.

She'll not complain since she understands, without I having to explain to her, that becaus eI've used have to it's probably my boss who's forcing me to do that. So there's no way to avoid it.

These things are very interesting for non-native speakers. You just feel them, without really knowing them. But I have to first Know them, then start feeling them.

Thanks. I hope it'll be a benefitial board, even for the native guys and gals.

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grenv: Another topic? I'm so full of them. But do I have to start another topic?

Feel free to suggest one when you feel like it.

Just to have something to discuss, I'd like to know the difference between these words too:

Trip, Travell, Voyage, Excursion, Journy

Walter Montego: I don't really get it. The link Marfitalu gave says that when there's external force, you have to use have to but when it's an option and it is you who decides whether or not to do the job, you may use must. Yet you say that if your wife gets upset, which I believe is an external force making you do the job, you use must.

I went back to those books I were studying, and surprisingly at the end of one of them found some grammar notes I had missed till now. There are a few points about Have to and Must, and Should and Ought to. See if you agree with them:

Should

1) Advice: You should go and see Casablanca. It's a brilliant old fim.

2) Obligations: I should get my father a card. It's his birthday tomorrow.

3) Probability: If the train's on time, we should arrive at 3:30.

Ought to

1) Advice: You ought to stop smoking. It's really bad for you. (Ought to expresses less personal advice than should.)

2) Obligations: I really ought to pay the telephone bill tomorrow. (Ought to here indicates that the speaker probably won't pay the bill tomorrow)

3) Theory: John ought to be here by now. (Ought to here means was due to, or it is expected)

Must

Must + infinitive is used for strong obligations which express the authority of the speaker or writer. So it is used:

1) For formal rules or laws: Passengers must fasten their seat belts for take-off.

2) For suggestions, advice or recommendations that the speaker feels strongly about: You must come to my party. Everyone's gonna be there.

have to

Have to + infinitive is used for strong obligations which express the authority of a third person, rather than the speaker or writer. So it is used:

1) When the speaker wants to show they ar enot responsible for imposing the obligation, or do not agree with it: I'll be late home tonight. I hav eto work late. My boss says so.

2) When the speaker or writer is reminding someone about a rule or law: I'm sorry, but you hav eto wear a seat belt in the back of cars now.

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So according to what I typed above, if your wife is not going to be mad at you, you can say:

I should buy a loaf of bread on my way back.

If she gets mad at you, you can say:

I have to buy a loaf of bread on my way home.

And if you yourself will get upset if you cannot satisfy what your wife has asked you to do, you can say:

I must buy a loaf of bread on my way home.

How mush do you think what I said is right according to what you think you really would say in these situations?

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Yes, I know that people don't care for their choice of vocabulary so much, but we have a spoken English and a proper English, which you may call book English. I think I, or any non-native speaker is supposed to first learn to speak the language quite properly, then try to speak it as the speakers do.

When I speak farsi, I sometimes do notice that the sentence I'm saying is wrong regarding Farsi structure of sentences, but I just know that the one I'm talking to understands me without laughing at me or even asking why I've made the mistake.

The word 'whom' has cost me many marks in my exams, so now I'm glad I know its difference with who. :-)

Suppose your wife, I know you don't have one yet! but just imagine you do, asks you politely to buy a loaf of bread on your way back home and you know that if you don't, she won't get mad or sad at all.

Now suppose that sh easks you to buy a loaf of bread and if you don't, she'll get mad at you.

Now suppose if you don't, she'll kill you.

Will there be any difference in saying the sentence I ... buy a loaf of bread on my way back home ?

I bet there will be.

Walter Montego: So this would work?

When do we say : I must buy a loaf of bread on my way back home.

And when : I have to buy a loaf of bread on my way back home.

Walter Montego: You said: As far as I use the words, they're interchangable in your example. Have to and must do not mean the same thing though. Have is a tricky word and has lots of meanings. Must is fairly straight forward. You left out "got" by the way.

So now that I looked back at my post, I started to wonder if I had put my question properly. By the word something in my examples, I simply meant that you as the ones who want to answer my question are free to put the proper actions in the place of 'something' that I used. But seems you as a native speaker didn't get what I meant. So my question must have been wrong.

Quite interesting that Farsi doesn't always correspond with English!

Fencer: My assumption is that many don't know the difference, but use the options properly.

Walter Montego: Yes. The link works well. The fact that non-native speakers of a languag eknow the grammar of that language more than its native speakers do, is quite interesting. Though the language intuition is always something else.

Marfitalu: But your choices are in contradiction with what that link says. According to the link, in the first one you must (?) use have to since it's an as the link puts it, outward authority, an din the second one, you must (?) use must since afterall it's an option.

Marfitalu: That was a nice link. That 'Many authorities consider that must indicates an internal decision of the speaker, while have to indicates the presumption of an outward authority' seems to be quite distinctive. How about Ought to?

I think that's another verb used to show obligation. And should?

I think the use of these four verbs must, have to, should, ought to and the one Walter mentioned, got to will be most obvious in examples. So do you have any in mind?