Personally, I think that, while playing a game, evaluating past positions with a computer gives you a huge advantage. Being suggested a move always means asking "why", and often leads to a change of strategic objectives that often have impact in the endgame, much later. Often Zebra suggests a certain move several times during a game played on the board, and if players knew that would certainly have changed their point of view. Even looking only at past opponent's moves, IMHO, gives a lot of hints on how to play. When playing on IYT I discussed a lot if it can be considered "cheating" just evaluating with a -passive- board instead of pure brain thinking on the position!

Well, the player in question is a bit stubborn, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees the advantage in evaluating past moves with AI-aid.

I don't know what to think of using a 'passive' board to look at your moves... In other games (hex/twixt/go) it's accepted. But the lookahead is what's so hard with reversi, and using a viewer for you lookahead makes it a alot easier (and gives a huge advantage in the endgame). I'm not sure where I stand in this, but I would definately prefer a player who doesn't use a passive board.

Call me old fashioned, but why not analyze moves with your brain??? I wouldn't go as far as calling it cheating, but I personally would have much more respect for a "top player" who DOESN'T use a program, in any part of his/her game playing.

Just an opinion!
:-)

If you really want to improve your gameplay, you have to fill the holes in your strategy and tactics repertoire. A program is usefull since it can help you find the holes you were unaware of.

Personally I am more interested in the European rating list -http://othello.federation.free.fr/fede/class.php3 than the one here - this is for otb play where any temptation to cheat (i.e using Zebra) is removed. Some of you will know who I am and if you don't then it is not that hard to find this out. I would like to play some of the players (especially those based in Europe) from this site in such events.

I was thinking about setting up a simple ladder for the BK reversi players similar to the GT ones, one ladder per variation.
If you are interested, please let me know in one way or another.
It would be set up on my website and accesable from BK. But the games would have to started manually etc.

Steve

I was thinking about setting up a simple ladder for the BK reversi players similar to the GT ones, one ladder per variation.
If you are interested, please let me know in one way or another.
It would be set up on my website and accesable from BK. But the games would have to started manually etc.

Steve

Keep in mind THAT is your opinion only not what will actually become of this site.

Its true LJ..... I have begun playing in the reversi ladder over there. This site does seem to be becoming more and more a chat site... currently on my game page there are only 22 games waiting to be played, and none of them are games I even play! It has taken almost 3 weeks for my 9 reversi games to be accepted. It is sad, but this so called 'game site' has more people chating than actually playing games...hence the long game times some people, who chat more than play, have.

If you look at the moves list upchuck, you will see plenty of games being moved, not just chat.
But what has that got to do with reversi?

It was started here...I just posted on the un censored debate about it though, so as to keep this board only about reversi..

Steve, what do you think of a reversi ladder system?

BTW..where is the 'moves' list? Can i see how many moves people make, or myself, for thet matter? I have never been able to find that info... Thanks :)

in your settings you can activate most mover list, so it shows at top of your main page. It will only show number one mover until you click on the link next to it.

I would like a reversi ladder here, and offered to run a manual one, but only Rose commented on it

Thanks.... I think I may have de actived that feature when I first came here, as I had no interest in it. I will look into reenstating it.

I will join a reversi ladder run manually on this site. here did you post the idea? Maybe you could try again :)

yep, 7 posts down, and on each reversi fellowship I belong to

Count me in steve... I wonder why your response has been so low? Try posting on the debate boards about it...they seem to have lots of active players around, maybe we can drum up some support for manual ladder games

Most players who chat I have found to be gammon players LOL
thats a debate board, not a game board, this is for reversi, so this is where it should be

LOL.. about the gammon players. That does seem to be the most popular game, as their tournaments get 100 or more players easily. How many ctive reversi players do you suppose we have here?

There are quite a few, and I find them better players than on iyt

I find that the random reversi players I play against on Gold Token are the best overall, it does seem that IYT does have the generally weakest players.

Maybe you could do a ladder by personal invite?
I would help if you want. You take the top 50 players, and I will take the next fifty, or something like that, and send them personal invites.

Steve, Hope you didnt take my posted reply to what LJ said as a negative towards your ladder idea.. Sorry It wasnt meant to be.. it was in regards to him saying everyone here will go back to IYT.

A manual ladder is going to be a lot of work in my opinion. Not that I dont want a ladder I think it would be awesome to have. I dont recall any one asking Fencer if this is on the development list. Has it been asked?

Fencer was spoke to about it, but wether he will or not I dont know.

Its ok Rose, the reply I was refering to was the one in a game from you, not on here :o) I knew what your post here was about

Does anyone know whats going on with him?
Why he is purposly losing his ranking in reversi 8x8??? Wha point is he trying to make? Anyone?

Was dragged away from my computer unexpectedly for lengthy periods of time recently and got timed out on a lot of games.

I think Arnies rating should be restored to whatever it was before the timeouts (2300ish?). Now wins against him (just got one \o/ ) don't count for much ratingwise and losses against him make a big hit to the rating.

I can't help it if I am dragged away (when I wanted to play) when there are unexected family problems.

Arnie this is only a game site and of course life comes first.. Don't worry about what other folks say. No one can predict life. Your rating will soar again soon I am sure!

<Thanks Rose. This time away was unpredicted and under normal circumstances I could have easily handled this number of games. LongJohn, if you have bothered to check things, you will have found out that recently I have been playing much more quickly

>Please do not join if you are a notorious staller, you will be removed.

Your vacations:
22. March 2004, 23. March 2004, 24. March 2004, 25. March 2004, 26. March 2004, 29. March 2004, 30. March 2004, 31. March 2004, 1. April 2004, 2. April 2004, 5. April 2004, 6. April 2004, 7. April 2004, 8. April 2004, 9. April 2004, 12. April 2004, 13. April 2004, 14. April 2004, 15. April 2004, 16. April 2004, 19. April 2004, 20. April 2004, 22. April 2004, 23. April 2004, 26. April 2004, 27. April 2004, 28. April 2004, 29. April 2004, 30. April 2004

Now just who is a notorious staller?

I'm surprised you are offended John in thinking Arnie is attacking you considering how often you attacked him on this very board not so long ago! Shoe doesnt fit so well on the other foot?

As you are choosing to publicly attack anyone without getting the facts first, you should expect the same person to also defend themselves just as publicly. You taking a vacation for many weeks and then accuse me of stalling is blatant hypocrisy.

And another thing - why are you discussing matters related to two backgammon games (and therefore unrelated to this board) here.

K guys this is just going to keep going on an on.. you've both made your points.. Lets stick to Reversi or take it in private now ok? thanks!

lol

Sorry I missed the convo, I have to say this to Longjohn..
I guess now Arnie has lost games (even though he wins near enough all he plays), does that mean you will not be accusing Arnie of cheating? Like you did another good player

Stop this off-topic discussion. Now. Please. Everybody. Thanks.

But Fencer, my comment was about Reversi and its players :o(

macbann mentioned a book called "OTHELLO:BRIEF & BASIC" as a good self help book. Prob is I cant find it online anywhere to buy. Any one know where to get this book or perhaps another book that is simple to understand, not full of notation that is hard to figure out?

Not a very up to date site (OTHELLO QUARTERLY © 2002) as well as no contact info on the site at all

What happened to Arnies post?????

dunno, he musta deleted it. I didnt remove it

Makes my post look outta place now!

Deleted it as I posted a more accurate private reply to Rose (which contained a snail mail address). For the benefit of anyone else OB&B is published by the US Othello Association - contact them. British players on this site can join the British Othello Federation (how macbann got his copy) which includes the book free with first year's membership.

Ha sanyone else downloaded the happy end III programme from the Othello site on Arnie's profile?
Its a great bit of software and the skill test is worth doing :o)

is it a proggy like zebra or a software skills test?
ie do you play it in games to test your skills?

It appears to be designed as a way of improving one's endgame - never used it myself though I have used a similar program called Icare. Google search icare othello should find a copy.

I think its a good programme even if it is a bit confusing with its layout etc.

But yes LJ, similar to use as Zebra.

The skill test is 50 games which are half way through, you have 20 seconds to decide where to move. The programme decides how many discs yo uwould lose going by the single move on each game, and any that you take too long it also deducts 15 or 20 discs I think.

I didnt do too well on my first and only try while getting used the programme layout and lost 162 discs LOL

But hope to improve now I can use it better ;oÞ

There are also 6000 or more random partly played games for you to finish and get ranked by your finishing. So as Arnie says, it should help endgames.

I know hardly anyone showed interest in a ladder when i mentioned a manual 1 before, but...
....We have got a half auto/ half manual ladder set up for 8x8 on another site, which we will use Brainking for the games for.

If anyone is interested, contact me :o)

Steve

sure.. if there's anti!

OK Rod, that would suit me fine too :o)Ive already set up the reversi one for now, so will set up anti over the weekend sometime :o)

okey dokey..
you can count me in.

Not a whole lot of anti players around here though..

It's awesome how much work you put in to this stuff Steve. Being the game addict that I am too, I appreciate it!

Thanks :o)
Aragon has done alot too Rod :o)