I thought this variant up myself, but after I thought of it, I also saw a reference to it as a modification of Mastermind in a journal paper somewhere. The idea is that after Player 1 submits their guess, Player 2 submits their guess and also has the option of choosing the number of black and white pegs seen by Player 1 for their guess (so the response could be a lie). Each player would only get one lie per game. Also, obviously if the code was guessed correctly, no lie could be used.

--
Tristrom Cooke

The average number of moves needed to break the opponent's code would be an excellent measure of the playing strength. But is there a statistical way to compute it ?

I couldn't think of a way of accounting for the lost games, which doesn't mean that there isn't any way to do it.

Puckish: The response is one month old, but it is a positive one ! You can now have numbers on top of the Logik pegs by selecting it in your settings page

please help me with grey and pink i can't tell them apart at all i have to get my girls to tell me

mangue: OK, I'll make it a way in the feature requests board before my eyes go berserk.

AbigailII: hard to distinguish between gray and white ? Yes, terribly hard, it makes the game almost unplayable. My vote for numbers tips like in Mancala

AbigailII: Aargh, I would never be able to play giant Logic with colours, whatever the colours chosen :-)
But yes, an alternate piece set would be nice ! Otherwise, something should be done about this grey colour. Orange would be OK if well half-way between yellow and red, green a bit more problematic for colour-blinds. A darker grey would probably do it for everybody.
Anyway, a set with letters or numbers would be great. There are probably people who are more colour-blind than me here.

nabla: Colour number 4 is gray. The colours, in order, are: black, blue, brown, gray, pink, red, white, yellow. Which is the same order you find them in a dictionary.

Serendipity: Indeed, the colours are: white, gray, brown, blue, black, red, yellow and pink. My preference would be to replace gray with green (or perhaps orange), as I sometimes find it hard to distinguish between gray and white. But who knows, perhaps one day we'll see 'Giant Logic' with green, light-blue, orange, purple, beige, maroon and violet as additionally colours.

Having said that, perhaps we could have alternative game pieces for Logic; for instance balls with numbers or letters (in contrasting colours, black letters on white balls for instance). We have game piece options for other games as well.

Serendipity: :-)
Light blue ? Light grey ? Colour number 4 on the list. By pink I meant colour number 5.

Ahem, there is no light green colour in Logic at BK...

I don't remember whether I have asked that before, but could we please have colours that are easier to distinguish for colour-blind people ? As they are, I can hardly distinguish the pink from the light green, while all others are OK (hint : most colour-blind people have a red vs green deficiency).

AbigailII: So Unique Logik with two additional colors seems to be roughly in the same range of complexity as our current Logik - I think I'd like it :)

Gordon Shumway: The ability to leave an empty spot is identical to adding another colour.

The general formula for the number of codes with N spots and C colours is C^N for regular logic; for unique logic, the formula is C!/(C-N)!, assuming there are at least as many colours as there are spots (otherwise, you wouldn't have any possible codes).

I've made a table here.

AbigailII: So what about Unique Logik with one or two colors added? Or the possibility to leave one spot empty?

coan.net: Currently, Logic has 32768 different codes to choose from. Most games seem to finish in 5 or 6 moves. Your "small" logik only has 4096 possibilities (and that's assuming there isn't a reduction in the number of colours). Most games wouldn't go past move 4. "Large" logik would up the number of codes to 262144. Probably requiring 6 to 7 moves.

As for unique logik, with 8 colours and 5 positions, there would be 6720 codes to choose from. Just over 1 in 5 of the possible codes does not duplicate a colour.

coan.net: Or Unique Logik - No color twice.

Logic Variants

What would people think of 2 more logic games:

Small Logic - only 4 places to guess

Large Logic - 6 places to guess

Serendipity: wow that is just great

Whikki managed a 1 move win: Logik (vladimira vs. whikki)

Bernice:

the chance is very low
but you can always guess it in 1 turn

does anybody know what are the least number of turns to win a game? I have done it in 3 turns, has anybody done it in 1 or 2 turns yet...is this known?

TexasToest: Each round it gives you a new set of pegs - it does not pay attention to what you guessed last round - just the current round.

Once a color peg is identified by the game program, and the program issues a black peg is issued to a solution place, the program ignores it?  I don't think so.  If you move that peg in your line up to an incorrect position, the black peg goes away.

nivabef:Thank you.

I had figured there was something wrong.

Universal Eyes: Yes, that's how the game is played. It tells you how many you have right but not which ones.

BIG BAD WOLF:The pegs did not go in the right position on my first finished game,if you want the game ID# when you get a correct position the peg is suppose to be placed there,which is not the case,they move from left to right regardless of the peg color.

I hope someone can clarify my mind in some way,or do i just not understand the game.

Updated to get the game ID#2282486

Oh, duh..

LOL

I figured it out myself. It's because I could be declared the winner, with player 2 not getting an equal number of "turns".

This may be a dumb question, but can someone explain why it is necessary to wait until both players have made a guess to see the pegs for that guess? Say I am player 1, why can't I hit Move and stay here, and see the results of that guess? How would this offer me an advantage over player 2??

I am sure this is one of those things I will say, "DUH" to myself once it is explained. LOL

Is there any way to widen the board horizontally?

Czuch Czuckers: Well I would not want to help on any ongoing games (as to not cheat), but I've played this game on other sites before playing here and have my own way of playing - when I get some more time, I'll write up a short article on how I play - maybe a new addition to brainrook.com site.

BIG BAD WOLF: So, maybe you could give me a quick strategy lesson.... in your example, what would you likely play next, and why?

Czuch Czuckers: That is correct.

If your opponenets code is all red,

And your guess is red, white, black, blue, red - you will get 2 black pegs for having 2 pieces the correct color & in the correct position.

Sometimes a very tricky code can be one that has 3-4 of the same color in it! (or course on the flip side it may make it very easy on your opponent.)

BIG BAD WOLF: Thanks, I think that helps a little, i will just have to play some more and figure it all out!

So, if my opponent uses all red and I use two reds in my guess, I will know that I have two colors correct and in the correct position, but I will not know for sure if either one of the red ones are correct or not?

Czuch Czuckers: example: you guess all red - opponent has 1 red in code

You get 1 black peg since one of your guesses match the opponents pieces as the same color & same place.

You can not get more then 1 peg for each of your guesses. Black pegs overrule.

.... wait, let me explain this differently.

First thing computer does is looks for exact matches in your guess and opponenets placement. If the computer finds an exact match (same color & same position), the computer gives you a black peg and from that point on ignores that position.

So from then on, the computer only looks at the remaining 4 positions.

After the computer finds no more exact matches (black pegs), it then starts to look for any color matches in the wrong position (again, only at the 4 remaining positions) If it finds any, it will then give you a white peg and then "ignore" those pieces in the rest of it's findings.

Rose: From the rules:

The game is finished when one or both codes are solved. Since the results of moves are determined at the same time, it is possible that both players solve the opponent's code at the same turn. In this case, the game is a draw. Otherwise, if one player solves the code, he wins the game.

Since this takes away the advantage of the player going first, I'm glad this rule is there.

I guess I am confused where, if I guess all red, and my opponent has used one red, then I have one guess that is the correct color and is in the right position, and 4 colors that are the right color but in the wrong position. Why only one black peg then?

Say for example my opponent has a red one in the last position and I guess that color in the first position, I will get a white peg for that, but if I guess a red one in both the first and last positions, The one in the first position doesnt get anything this time?

Rose: That is not a link to a game, but a message I can not read.

But for the game - I believe each player gets the same amount of tries - so even if you go first, and on move 5 you solve it, player 2 also gets a move #5 to try to solve it also.

As a side note, I've notice that player 2 will not even see your move until AFTER they move, so they will not even know that you won until after that move.

http://brainking.com/en/ReadMessage?mi=6654547

BBW why a draw here.. I got the 5 right before my opponent did but then on his turn he got em right but I got em first.. why a draw, why didnt I win?

Czuch Czuckers: If you guess 1 red, and your opponent has all red - you will only see 1 black peg.

Rose: If I guess one red and my opponent has all reds, then what will I see?

Opps, sorry about that mistype - my phone started to ring to I finished typing without proof-reading it.

bbw wrote it wrong

black peg means right colour, right spot
white peg means you have one right colour in the wrong spot... u get one peg for every right colour

If you guess all red an your op only used one red then you get ONE peg only

BIG BAD WOLF: I think you said the same thing twice?

Anyway, for example, If I guess all red ones, and my opponent has only one red one, then I should get 1 black peg and 4 white ones?

Czuch Czuckers: The positions of the pegs do not correspond to the same position on the board.

So if you see 1 black peg, that means 1 of your pieces (not necessarily the first one) is the correct color in the correct space.

So if you see 1 white peg, that means 1 of your pieces is the correct color -NOT- in the correct space.

** edited to add -NOT- **

I am confused again! I placed a red one in the first spot searching for my opponent, and it came up black, which means that my opponent placed a red one in the first position? I thought thats what it meant, but on my second turn, I placed a red one in the first spot again and it did not show up black! Can someone please put me on the right track about what the pegs mean?

Rose: Yes, the can see the completed board. And after the game is complete, anyone can see your setup.

So in my opinion, players should stay away from using the same board setup too often.

I havent lost a logik game yet.. so need to ask.. If i solve it first does my losing opponent see what colour scheme I used?