to Straman71 & TheViper for winning their section in the BK fund raiser tourney. Good luck to both of you towards the $50. Thanks for entering.

For the big reversi fans :o)
Stevies Reversi 10x10

Have fun and enjoy your games :o)

Steve

Only 8 signed up :o( Ill give another couple of days
Stevie want 2 Get more interested in anti Reversi

As it says, I wan to get more of you interested in anti reversi so you all want to join Aragon and my ladder tournament too :o) pawns and knights be sure to have space to play.All known frequent last minute movers will be removed before tourny starts Have fun and enjoy :o) Steve

I have only played a couple of games of dark chess and would concur with WM ... and most certainly agree that skills in Poker would be particularly useful. It would be interesting to play physically opposite your opponent so that you could also read facial expressions ... another supreme skill of the great poker players.

Thought I would mention that in one game I played up until about move 10 I could locate all my opponent's pieces by deduction but after that it deteriorated as more space became available on the board. I enjoy it but have enough things to do without "seriously" learning how to play this variant. Just like many of the other variants I believe that it has its place in strengthening normal chess play as it makes you think through how your opponent may play and what options are available to them without being distracted by their actual movements. Obtuse i know but I am sure someone understands what I am saying.

Can I suggest any further dicussion be undertaken on the Dark Chess DB.

Cheers WQ:)

I'm not sure what you mean by Chess-serious. There's uncertainty in the game, so it cannot be played perfectly as regular Chess can be. I'm the highest rated player on this site, but I know the game can be played better than I play it. Sooner or later one of them players will come along. I'm playing the player that's won the most tournaments on IYT and we're going to split our pair of games. I think it would be a great game to play live. Especially at a tournament. Or just at home. You'd need a computer programmed for it and two or more monitors. Extra monitors for the kibitzers. This same set up would work for Battleboats, Stratego, and lots of card games. Though those games don't need that since the games work without the computer. Dark Chess requires a lot of supervision. I suppose it could be done without the computer, but you'd need a referee and two assistants to make it work. Plus a way to mark the board for each player as the game developes. There's an old version of Chess called Kliegspiel that's very simluar to Dark Chess. The main difference is that you're not allowed to move into check or make illegal moves using regular Chess rules. I believe this version is from the 1800's. I imagine the wealthy Chess enthusiast of the day could set it up to play. I had never heard of Dark Chess until a couple of years ago when I stumbled upon IYT looking for a site that had a Chess variant called "Ultima". There's no book on Dark Chess, least ways I haven't heard of one. Seems like Gothic Chess is developing a following. It only requires a differ board and extra pieces to play. Extinction Chess works with a regular Chess set and is easy to understand if you already know how to play Chess.

I notice that you have no completed or running Dark Chess games, Lythande. When or where did you ever play? Have you played it live somewhere? I'd certainly like to play it that way. Battleboats is a good comparision. Imagine a Battleboats game where you could move the ships from time to time. Stratego is simular too. The thinking in Dark Chess requires you to bluff at times. Also you need to imagine what your opponent is up to. Deduction is important to play well, too. In regular Chess, none of them things are important. It can even be argued that whoever your opponent is in regular Chess, it shouldn't affect your play. Since we're humans and not machines, that's not the best way to play regular Chess. Knowing your opponent's habits in Dark Chess can sometimes be important. How to learn them is something that takes a few games. And it's always dark. Seems like the better opponents that I've played actually set me up, knowing that I know that they know I know what they're up to. Kind of like a different level than if they were playing a new player at the game. In which case, never leave your troops unguarded, or they'll be draped in a hurry. :)
Well, that's about how serious I play it. I'm sure if some the champions of Chess or Poker put their minds to Dark Chess, you'd have a better answer.

Just ooc, does anyone play dark chess 'seriously'.. as in chess-serious, that is? I mean, don't get me wrong, I like the game. I think it's great fun, but to me it's rather more on par with battleboats than chess. ;) I was just curious to other views.

There's just two months left before they start.
Sign up before all 141 spots are taken. :)

a good method to divert attention away from the aching tongue!

<AD bites his tongue.....OUCH!>

ok, that was fun, now lets bang our heads against the wall. :)

ouch

Everyone bite their tongue j/k

OOPS....i see LongJohn is now known as Ciao, does that mean goodbye?

geeeeesh....some people get touchy dont they....I personally ignored the post further down of WM's for 2 reasons...1st - it didnt warrant a reply and 2nd - Fencer stepped in HAHAHAHAHAHA

I think he may have been addressing LJ and his listing further down, which kinda sparked the convo again. ;) I can't see anything in your or my post which should be considered 'complaining'... just suggesting so that others can have less to complain about. ;)

Were you addressing this to me? I didn't list anyone's name, nor have I had a bad attitude about the time limits. I will not stop talking about them just because you've grown bored or have lost patience with those of us discussing something that can greatly influence one's enjoyment of a game. Especially on a turn based site. One that has lots of different players and their approaches to the time limits and other things about them. I think the subject is quite pertinent to any discussion of tournaments and the running of them. If you're right about the next generation of BrainKing, it sure can't hurt to talk about it before it's implemented incase Fencer might get some ideas from us and our posts.

Will you please get off the "time to move" topic. This has been done to death and that is where it should stay. If you don't like the time limit don't set it or only play where it has been set to your liking. To start to list people who may use as much of the time as they like is being dictatorial and an abuse of their rights. You are the ones in the wrong (remember ... you chose to play by those time limits) just as they did so go away and get a life. If you want OTB then play somewhere else or wait till BK2 where I think Fencer intends to impliment more time options. You are the ones who need to change your attitude so stop showing disrespect to other legitimate BKers.

Enough is enough ... WQ

That happened last night. The site went down. You got me how come it was copied and posted so many times. I've deleted all of them but one.

lol

LMAO

Erm.. I'm glad you like my idea. All four(?) times. :)

Hey, that's an interesting idea! I like it. You're right, the different length time limits makes one play some games faster even if you have the same time remaining in them. Your idea would allow an average to be made, and yet it would allow for emergencies if you made the cut to enter the tournament as it wouldn't be the norm.
Yes, keeping track and adding it to one's profile would make for lots of programming. Hmm, oh well. We're paying members, time to hit the suggestion box, eh? Improving our experience will certainly help the bottom line eventually and it will increase word of mouth and sales too. The more options a tournament director has should make for better tournaments. I think after awhile that certain combinations would shake out and the better ways to hold them for various time limits would prevail.

<Walter: "It'd be nice if there was a speed rating or moves per day average for each player. Then a player or tournament director could also set a range if they desired,..."

This isn't a bad idea, but I'd rather see it formed from an average percent of time-limit perspective. Yes, I know that sounds confusing, I'll be taking individual questions later in my tent. Meanwhile let me see if I can somewhat explain.

If a person is playing in many different games and tournaments with many different time limits (and doesn't always have time to live on the computer), it's only natural they will play the shorter times quicker, and more often. So if a player plays his five-day tournaments within three days, his 15-day games within 10 days, etc, he's using roughly 60% of his time limits. So if you set up a tournament with a seven-day limit, and you want people to move within 2 or 3 days, you only allow people who take an average of 20% (or less) of their time limit. That way you have that 'buffer' of time that folks go on about so that 'if anything happens' people will still have 7 days to make the move, but most will be taking it earlier.

The only problem is, all this is a lot of coding and data-storage that I don't know if Fencer can or wants to deal with. ;>

AD: And that's exactly what I thought was in bad taste. ;)

I'm removing this tourney cause it seem we only have 3 people in it. TYVM the other 2 people that tried to get this tourney going...

we all know that LJ is a stirrer and loves to get people going, but instead of just getting one person going (me) he is annoying us all in general, and unfortunately there isnt a rule against that FROLLY.

as for changing the starting rules to suit yourself.. that is a childish thing to do...
but then i guess children are children FROLLY

Sorry Anders I thought you were referring to me. ;•)

Linda..Did i complain?..I said :"maybe he posted the real rules on a discussionboard"..cant see any complaint in that "guess"..can you?

Linda, maybe Anders was replying to what I was on about :o)

Sorry the only one I've seen so far was you and what's to complain about?

Linda, dont you think we have enough complainers already? ...scroll and read LOL

Funny Anders I didn't see you complaining when more prizes were being given away. ;•)

Congratulations to Catallac1962 on winning her section in the Bk fund raiser tourney.

Speaking for Princess (who you had in bold type) I happen to know she has her priorities and moves her games in order of IMPORTANCE to her. This is her choice and within the rules. BTW people are lined up to play her so your "warning" is not likely to have any effect.

mrloupcity - I'm not sure if you took looking at other idea for the clock as being unhappy with the current rules and wanting to change everything, but I believe it is always good to look at new and better things. (If no one ever did this - there would be 1 game site with nothing new - boring!)

Maybe he has posted the "real" rules on a discusssion board? :)

At least the time out has stayed at 1 day not gone to 30 like others did LOL

he must like winding people up .
things like that shouldnt be allowed to happen , the creator should have these options removed (a ban on creating tournaments)

Great, lets change a tourny or its name once it has started *
yes that little mark is a link with the same name as tourny :o(

grow up

Games are to be played and have fun while playing, win or lose. If someone can't handle that, they need to find another site!!!!!

I disagree. True, the object of a game is to win, but the reason to play a game is to have fun. Games have two main parts. The rules that they're played by and the conditions under which they are played. How the moves or plays in a game are made fall under the first part. When they are made falls under both. The time to make a move falls under the latter in most cases. Talking about changing the time to make a move in no way changes the game you're playing, it just changes the playing conditions. In light of this, I don't see what punches to roll with, nor do I see what rules it is that anybody here has said that they are changing. We were talking about different timing systems and limits, not changing game rules. Obviously making radical changes in the time of a game would make the game play so different that would almost seem like another game. Compare Chess on this site to 5 Minute Chess.

That's sounds like a good one. Easy to understand and work with too. My average idea would take awhile to get the feel for. The grace period and the total time are easy to adjust and see. I suppose in a side game the players could agree to put more time on the clock, or take it off too. I hadn't given it much thought since the timing system here is like the one IYT uses. I imagine there's probably lots of ways that have been tried or thought up. I'm all for giving the players in side games, or the tournament director in tournaments more options.

As for your sadness mrloupcity, I think it comes from misinterpretted intentions. Some people see the time limits as a restriction and others see them as an opportunity. Other time limit systems can change the balance and make for more or less problems depending on the individuals involved. It'd be nice if there was a speed rating or moves per day average for each player. Then a player or tournament director could also set a range if they desired, simular to the rating range to allow a particular speed of player enter a tournament. Instead of just fast tournaments, one could also set up a slower paced one too.

I'll stay out in the middle of the room. :)

A game is meant to have a loser and and a winner no matter what new and different rules you impliment....ROLL WITH THE PUNCHES!!!!

just cause some people don't feel like living on their puter. And taking their turnes as they please some of you want to change the rules. And to go back they may not be taking their time of the tourney would not have been changed right before it was closed. So everyone hang in there cause life is way to short to cry over spilled milk or long playing games. TYVM for ur time. Back to my corner I go.
:o{P``````

In tournament play (chess) we did have a time limit to complete so many moves in so much time. That way, you could spend more time on more difficult positions, less on the easier ones. Either way, the BBW suggestion or Walter's, it does seem to encourage more rapid play. For me, I don't join many tourneys that are over 5 days per move. I like the fast ones. I'd join more if the time setup was like one of these suggestions below. I've no opinion on which is better tho. Have to think on it.

There has been many different ideas of different time limits on games, and what I believe is one of the best is what DailyGammon.com uses.

Quick overview of how they work:

Each games has a grace period. (Example - 24 hours) So for each move, you have 24 hours before any things starts to happen with the timer.

Each game also has a Total Time (Example: 100 hours). After the grace is over, the total time starts to go down. Once the total time is at 0, you time out and lose.

Some games also have a +TOTAL time. (Example +2 hours). Any time you play your turn while still in the grace time, you get +2 hours added to total time.

=====
There are some other minor details, but that is the basic of that sort of time limit.

Anyone else like this idea, or think it'd work?

Instead of a fixed time limit for each move, I'd like an average time limit per move. That way I could play a lot one day, and then skip a few days and not worry about it. The average could be figured by the time after my opponent enters his move until I enter mine. That'd be my average. His would be based on the time after I enter my move until he moves. Seems like it'd work. A 15 move per month game would be the same as a move per day. There could be a buffer time at the start of the game so a timeout wouldn't happen in the first couple of moves, and then it'd be enforced. It might take a wide spread of averages to get the feel of which times I'd like to play, but after awhile I'd know. Both systems could still be offered, and it might even be possible to combine them for a hybred of the two.

you have a disagreement. Tournament directors set up the time limits. People have limited vacation days to use as they wish. It's none of our business to tell others how often they move.

If you want fast games, join BBW's tournaments. They start fast, the people move fast, and his tourneys attract like-minded people. Plus, BBW is always posting new tourneys. If you join a 30 day move limit tourney, you can't complain about how little people move. On with the games.

Anyone wanna join a ladder tourny?
Got battleboats and all reversis and scrabble and checkers all set up now :o)

Contact me if interested

For the big reversi fans :o)
Stevies Reversi 10x10

Have fun and enjoy your games :o)

Steve

FYI I do not mind the slowness of play in these tourneys at all. I simply made an observation and let the general public know for future reference. These games are not affecting me at all however I have seen others complaining about slow play lately so I thought I would just bring it to peoples attention.