Thank you for replying, except i specifically said i don't expect this rule to be not used, and i have used it in real life games many times. You know what? I'm not out the door, am i?
And also, it has been 10 days since anyone has mentioned it. If you would read my post entitled "A general note to everyone..." dated March 21, you will see that there really is no need to reply at all, let alone be rude. So grow up please.

what is rude about stating the obvious fact that you want to cheat?
rules are made for a purpose.

The fact that you said that was not rude. Even though you have not made it clear why it would be cheating - you say "rules are made for a purpose". So i ask, what is the purpose of this rule? No one has answered me yet, and many people have made rude posts (such as yourself) telling me to stop whining and trying to cheat, and to just accept it's a rule. I never once said i was against the rule, nor did i ever say i did not want to follow the rule, nor did i say the rule is not legitimate. I was simply questioning the rule.

so everybody who tells you to stop whining is being rude?
the rules were designed years ago, all you want to do is circumvent one of them.
and i did make it clear why it would be cheating, it's cheating because it is against the rules, the officially recognized rules of backgammon.
you could ask why you're not allowed to whip out a calculator during the course of a game also, the answer: that is also against the rules.
stop asking irrelevant questions, and just learn to play the game.
try reading paul magriel's "backgammon", it contains most of the everyday rules.
you could also go to http://www.bkgm.com/rules.html
Movement of the Checkers, look at number 4

and I must add that a few of us HAVE told you exactly why it's a rule, and the significance it plays. I can only assume that you haven't played enough to see the significance. And again, I must repeat, that just because you say its a RARE occurance, doesn't make it rare. It is really NOT rare at all.

hi there just to let you know that all of my games are running just fine and i dont think i have any bugs left at alland its great here :) job well done

will not be playing any games til 2moro nite

im new to this site and i know im starting off bad but i am a good player and would like to play anyone it doestn't matter i love the game

i don;t play chess of any kind yet im learning how to play ty

can you look at other peoples games on here? i have a problem with 3 of my games, i want to swap the dice on them and it wont let me, i will be able to use both dice and i just cant see what is wrong, is there any way you (whoever is here) can look at them to tell me that i'm being stupid and i cant swap them because of x y or z??

Just say which games they are, and I'll see if I can tell anything. (What type of game and with who - possible your color if your playing 2 game match)

You can click on the person, and see all games going - and look at each game going I believe.

Yes, or it would be even easier if you give the game numbers, found in the list below the game board. You can just go to any of the games you're playing, and i the address where it says "g=#####" just replace that number with the game number that you want to view :-)

the games are numbers 81484 i'm white and 81455 i'm also white, the 3rd one is ok now, they are anti bg games, i would be everso greatful if you could tell me why i cant swap dice

littlebabybird.. in your game 81484 .. you have to enter off the bar using the 3-die.. the 2-spot is blocked by your opponent .. that is why you cannot swap dice there.. i can't see a reason why in the other game 81455..

hi lovely sharon, yeah thats what i want to do, but the swap dice thingy wont change them, its giving me the 2 dice to move first :(

hi there, i have it all sorted now, thank you all for your help, the problem was the settings on my new pc :( silly me

i am new on this web

Congratulations to netvenus for winning the ArtfulDodger's Backgammon Tourney with a score of 6 of 7!!! Way to go!! And hooray for Artful Dodger for coming in last place!!! ;)

would you like to play backgammon with me - with a 3 day limit?

love to ruby2shoes but I have my 20 games full maybe later when one comes free. :O) Thanks for the invite.

Has anyone been following the luck vs skill discussion on the Feature Request board (Fencer asked it be moved here) and care to comment?

I asked fencer if it would be possible to also add a ladder rating system, that way Higher ranked players are forced to take some challanges from slightly lower rated players

That sounds like a great idea Vikings. I don't fully understand the rating problem here but I think I'm beginning to see what the fuss is about. It seems the problem is that USCF rating system is used to determine the backgammon rating? Or do I have that a bit wrong?

Take Care

How I understand it is that the current rating system here is great for skill based games (Like Chess).

But when you start to get into more "luck" based games (which Backgammon is a little luck - and Battleboats will be more luck when it gets here) - you need to use a different rating system to be more fair - since the current rating system is good for skill games and not luck.

I do not know all the details on the FIBS rating system that is used on the beter backgammon game sites, but it would be a better rating system to use for Backgammon - and probable other more "luck" based games like Battleboats.

That is what I understand the problem to be. :-)

BBW (BIG BAD WOLF)

Makes good sense to me. I just won a game against a 1900 Backgammon player. It was all luck in this case as I rolled three doubles in a row and never got put on the bar. I went up 100 points. I used to be 1700 in Backgammon but a series of lossed put me all they way down to 1100! I did think that was a bit crazy.

I have been asking for the FIBS rating system here for ages, a ladder based system would encourage cheating, just like the BKR does. (speaks from experience) personally along with the bg bug, the lack of rating system, the lack of mulitpoint gamed, and lack of interest in this game I would recommend players intersted in this game head to www.dailygammon.com...its free to play, and to be honest, I personally think my membership at such a NON bg related site is a bit of a waste of money. I have lost 2 #`1 postions here due to losing major rating points with timeouts, (site related) its a letdown, and I just cant be bothered anymore

How does one cheat in a ladder system when you are required to accept challanges to keep ranking?

I was playing at Yahoo when they implemented a ladder system. It started off being fun, then quite a lot of cheating started up, players were throwing games to each other to maintain their positions...they reset the ladder every 3 months, but this didnt stop them, they usually held the top 10-20 positions, and took it in turns to be #1, yes they accepted challenges, but very selectively, it became such a joke, and also became very nasty, I stopped playing there, because, really what was the point?
I have seen a succesful ladder system run at cases leagues, that can have some pretty strict rules implemented, but yet again I have seen the top positions manipulated in one league, this went on for ages until one of the players fessed up about it. Its fine to say that players have to accept challenges to keep ranking, but they can be selective in which challenges they choose, you can't very well make players accept EVERY challenge.
The thing which helped the ladder leagues at Cases work is simply you can throw out the cheats, but it takes a lot of dedicated time and energy to maintain the ladder properly.

The only experience I had was a cases league and I agree the rules were strict which is why I would think if people had to resort to cheating to maintain their position, the better players would eventually pass them up on requires accepts. I guess cheating goes on in almost everything, but they ultimately are cheating theirselves since they have to live with theirselves and their lying.

*** PLEASE GIVE ME YOUR OPINION ***

*** GOOD OR BAD - Other ideas? ***

-- I posted this in the Feature requests board, but thought I would post it here so it would give room for people to talk about it. Here is a copy of the post:
-------

I have a couple of ideas for a couple of game variations that I would like to see.

1. Dark Backgammon Race (or Regular/Nack/Crowded?)
- Basicly just like regular backgammon. You don't see ANY place that you don't have your own piece, so you will never be "blocked" and allowed to move to any place.

Now when you move to a place that is open, your piece stays there. If you move to a place that only has 1 opponent piece, you take it like normal gammon. If you move to a place that has 2 or more oppenent pieces, your piece will be placed back to the bar like it was taken out.

So this game would involve a lot more strategy - making you want to set up many places of 2 or more pieces to take away your opponents pieces when they land on you.

I believe this would be better as Dark Battleboats Race. Also I'm debating if it would be good to hide the opponents dice or not.

---------------------
2nd game idea!
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2. Backgammon Attack.
- Basicly it is the same as Backgammon, but with the rule that you can also win once you land and move your oppenets piece to the bar for the 10th time. I also think this would be good as Backgammon Race Attack - since then you could try to keep many of your own pieces in your own bar to come out and "attack" unprotected pieces that have been places in your area.

BBW (BIG BAD WOLF)

the dark backgammon sounds a good idea ... but i think it would be a really long game with the pieces going back to the bar all the time also in regular backgammon you can change your mind about your move that bit would have to be disabled

Like both your ideas; the 2nd sounds like Three Checks Chess!

jason: No, you could still take back your moves - it just wouldn't show you your pieces would go back to the bar until you submit, kind of like in dark chess...it doesn't show you the new spaces until you submit the move.

No , I don`t think your ideas are good !
basic because this is so far out of the ground soul of backgammon as you could get.
Let backgammon be backgammon and stop make new game out of a already great game !!

You notice there are several chess variants here. Many of them (such as Atomic Chess, Dark Chess, etc) are completely different from regular chess. But there hasn't been any chess players complaining abou them - if they don't like the game, they don't play the game. It could be the same here - if these games are created, you don't have to play them! But you shouldn't stop others from enjoying it because you don't appreciate it!

Hear, hear; Atomic Chess is a great variation and Gothic Chess isn't far behind!

I have monitored this conversation for some time, and now that I have achieved a respectable ranking in Backgammon (as played on this site), and payed a modest subscription, I feel qualified to add my opinions.

I think it is a GREAT pity that the rules of Backgammon are not implemented fully on the site. The cube is central to Backgammon, as is scoring for gammons and backgammons, none of which is implemented by BrainKing. I know enough about computer programming to know that correcting the errors (like using the higher-numbered die when only one die can be used) and implementing a doubling cube and (say) a 5- or 9-point game would not be an arduous programming task for somebody who has developed what is already implememnted.

I am not a great fan of the various variations (Race, Nackgammon, Crowded, etc) and therefore I choose not to play them. I have absolutely no objection to other people playing these variations as long as I can be excused. If Fencer wants MY vote as to priorities, I would vote VERY VERY strongly (can you vote VERY VERY STRONGLY in a democracy?) to implement Backgammon according to the rules as a priority over implementing new games or new variations. I don't see a lot of merit in arguing the pros and cons of the rules - the rules published and well known. I would LOVE to play Backgammon according to the rules!

Having said that, I enjoy playing the Backgammon flavour which is already available. I would like to congratulate Fencer on an excellent site, and also say what a great bunch of people play on the site. I have now played with over a hundred people, and have only met two with whom I would rather not play again. That's not bad for a site like this.

I agree 100% that the game should be fixed to make players follow the rules, BEFORE more variations on backgammon are added.
I do enjoy the variations we currently have, and certainly wouldnt mind trying any other new ones. BUT please please please, fix the mentioned problem and at least add a "variation" with the doubling cube.. that should be priority as far as backgammon games go..

I am new to backgammon - can someone explain the doubling cube to me. Also when there is a forced move - one could often play if we could swap the dice - can this be made available?

You can swap the dice...the link right below the board that says "swap dice"? lol

Here is a very good post by alanback regarding the doubling cube.


A doubling cube is an object used to record the current value of a game that has been doubled one or more times. It's shaped like a die and has the numbers 2, 4, 8, 16, 32 and 64 on its six faces. A player who wishes to double the value of the game picks up the doubling cube before he rolls his dice, and offers it to his opponent with the side labelled 2 facing up. If the opponent accepts the double, he "owns" the cube and places it on his side of the board. The owner of the cube can choose to double at any later time when it is his turn, before he rolls the dice. He would offer it to his opponent with the "4" facing up. The original doubler then owns the cube, and can double again on his turn, and so on.

Here is an explanation of the doubling cube and of gammon and backgammon from Backgammon Galore!

I forgot to mention in an earlier post that multipoint matches would require the system to recognize gammon and backgammon as well.


Doubling
Backgammon is played for an agreed stake per point. Each game starts at one point. During the course of the game, a player who feels he has a sufficient advantage may propose doubling the stakes. He may do this only at the start of his own turn and before he has rolled the dice.
A player who is offered a double may refuse, in which case he concedes the game and pays one point. Otherwise, he must accept the double and play on for the new higher stakes. A player who accepts a double becomes the owner of the cube and only he may make the next double.

Subsequent doubles in the same game are called redoubles. If a player refuses a redouble, he must pay the number of points that were at stake prior to the redouble. Otherwise, he becomes the new owner of the cube and the game continues at twice the previous stakes. There is no limit to the number of redoubles in a game.



Gammons and Backgammons
At the end of the game, if the losing player has borne off at least one checker, he loses only the value showing on the doubling cube (one point, if there have been no doubles). However, if the loser has not borne off any of his checkers, he is gammoned and loses twice the value of the doubling cube. Or, worse, if the loser has not borne off any of his checkers and still has a checker on the bar or in the winner's home board, he is backgammoned and loses three times the value of the doubling cube.

There is a bug in the Backgammon logic which I think should be corrected.

I threw 3-5 and had one piece on 14 which could move from 14-11 or 14-9. Had that been the ONLY piece I could move, I should only have been able to move the 5 die, 14-9. I also had two pieces on the 4, so I should have been forced to move from 4 to 1 (the 3-die throw).

BK actually allowed me to move my 3 first, which I moved from 14-11. I was then able to submit my move, as no other moves were then available.

This bug actually breaks two of the rules of Backgammon - first, it allows me to move the number shown on only one die, when there is a legal move which can be made with BOTH dice. Secondly, it allows me to move the 3 die, when the rules of Backgammon require that, if only one move is possible, it must be made with the HIGHER number if possible.

It would be nice (in my humble opinion)if these errors implementing the rules of Backgammon could be corrected before implementing additional variations on the game.

Yes, that has been mentioned numerous times, and Fencer is aware of it. Be patient, please!

Very nicely put Kevin...

ow DO I GAIN POINTS,DO YOU HAVE TO WIN TOURNAMENTS OR JUST WIN GAMES.I'M NEW TO THE SITE,PLEASE LET ME KNOW,I'D APPRECIATE IT GREATLY MY FRIEND BIG BAD WOLF

I'm assuming you mean your rating (BKR). Very generally: If you win a game, your rating will go up. If you lose a game, your rating will go down.
No, you do not have to win a tournament, although winning the games in the tournament (which is required to win the tournament) will almost for sure increase your rating. However, you do not get points simply for winning the tournament.

How come crowded bg doesn't seem to have a play later button? They're so handy! :)

I have the "Play Later" button for all my games (including Crowded BG).

Possiblity: You already made a move (which the button goes away)?? That is the only thing I can think of.

i'm pretty good at backammon but don't know the system here. what do i do now? thanks

Hi berengeria. What is it you need help with? I see you do have a game of backgammon already going, and its on move #5.
If you get more specific with your question, I and others will be happy to help you.

Hi berengeria,
I took a look at your game, and it seems you have a piece on the bar - you have throwen 6-1, and you can't move it 6, so you first have to move the piece on the bar to the 1 column. Maybe it is because you are playing balck and you can;t see the piece on the bar??