I forgot to mention that I had planned my last move as early as move 11;and only had to wait until I had driven off his archbishop to a square where it could not defend against the mates.

Always nice when someone knows what they're talking about. I was just winging it from my short visit to the site. Since you're now the new poster over there, I've deleted the reference to it in my previous post. Is the game use of the Miranda IM a new feature of it?

Re: Miranda IM is just the very best Instant Messenger on this planet. It is open souce, smaller, faster, easier than Trillian or the native messengers. Miranda works with ICQ, AIM, MSN and all other popular networks, also QQ of course which is popular in Asia. So everybody is connectted with everybody via Instant Messaging. Currently 308 plugins are offered, they are what makes Miranda to be Miranda, the core program is very plain. Miranda offers perfect spam protection, contact list sorting, buddies survey and let´s you see invible users and much much more things. This plugin named Janus has nothing to do with Janus chess. The plugin just allows you to play Chess, Reverse, Corners, International checkers, Russian checkers and Pool checkers with other Miranda users. I am the most recent poster and know it rather well. I called it an offtopic remark. You see, Ed Trice, whereever you find positive remarks about Gothic Chess, they are most possibly written by me. I am a Miranda maniac. I use it only with ICQ, which is the by far most popular IM network in Europe. My number is 67351, not 9 digits like if you would register a number today. :-) Many people told me that they would like to buy my number. :-)

It doesn't appear to have anything to do with Janus Chess. It's seems to be some sort of game enabler for internet play. Perhaps you can go there and check for yourself. The rest of the post seem to concern bugs and use of the program. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxx
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Janus 1.0.9 (1.0 epsilon)

Download
21378 Downloads | 274.46KBytes
Install using Miranda Installer


Updated:
06/04/2004 05:04:20
Screenshot View

Publisher ai91
Date added 28/02/2004 03:11:27
Requirements
License Freeware
Source code None Available

Description
Janus is a games-plugin for popular instant-messengers Miranda, Trillian and &RQ.
It allows to play some games with your friends over the internet.
Games currently implemented: Chess, Reverse, Corners, International checkers, Russian checkers and Pool checkers

Does anyone know what this is all about? I did not take the time to read it, thought maybe a Janus player would know more about it.

http://www.miranda-im.org/download/details.php?action=viewopinion&id=1118

I currently have four games on the "Waiting games" page if any of you reading this would like to play a game or two. If they're all gone by the time you read this, please feel free to send an invitation or a message. I generally need three or four days for a time limit in case I have to be away, but I almost always move once or more a day.

well I have a close approach to all pieces even for the capablanca board an piece set. For this see: http://www.chessbox.de/Compu/schachansatz4_e.html and around, where I derived the average piece values like used in Smirf.

OK, I've imagine that. As I said, I value him just under a Knight. How can you seperate the loss of him costing you the game from how strong a piece he is? Even in doing so, I still value him as I've said. I'd like to know how it is that you value him stronger than a Knight or Bishop?

Hi Walter, concerning the King: you have to keep his value distinct from combinatorical thoughts, because then his value is infinite. Imagine there would be a piece with similar gait but not to be defended like a King when being threatened.

I meant the actual pieces themselves, not the representations of them. Grand Chess used to have a webpage up and it had a page of the chess sets for the game that they made and sold. I thought it cool how they made the Marshall and Cardinal. Easy to tell which piece they were, plus nice looking sets too.
As for you symbols. I suppose the two swords is a gatekeeper, but I don't like it much. That link to the chess variant's page of Grand Chess had better looking representations than the one I'm used to seeing on their site.

Since when was the King valued as 4 Pawns? I've always played him as just under the Knight in strength. He covers eight squares maximum like a Knight, but it takes him 7 moves to cross the board. Plus, his vulnerablity makes him a target and he can't be traded. Definitely not a stronger piece than a Knight or Bishop. Or am I reading that chart incorrectly?

Hi Walter, do you know my symbols for Archbishop (Janus) and Chancellor? See also: http://www.chessbox.de/Compu/schachveri1_e.html

I like the pictures of the Chess sets for Grand Chess. Perhaps you could have them send you the pieces and order two extra Cardinals with your set. Then you could play Janus Chess, Bird's Chess, Capablanca Chess, and Gothic Chess on a 8 X 10 board and Grand Chess on a 10 X 10 board, by selecting the right pieces and set-up to use.

Ed Trice has created a Gothic Chess tournament with 3 prizes for first, second and thrd place finishers.
Sign up here

http://brainking.com/game/ShowGame?g=503892

I would like to present this game;since I beleive it is one of the 4 best I ever played. When the game ended explosively after 14 moves I had 7 forced mates in less than 5 moves. Most were 1 or 2 move mates. My opponant was actually in a hopeless situation after move 11;due to his greedy over aggressive play from move 7 until he resigned. My opponant has a higher ranking than me at present.

morphy72....you seem to like the word"diffuse",and your writing skills are similar to another user who is banned from this board.

I have 80 square boards and I could easily make a Janus set since I have extra pieces. Just let me know.

Well I have seen a lot of different icons also for a Janus. And (except of the pointed dog ?) they seem all to have their inner logic. But its just the character of being a mix of others which takes those symbols out of the row of the conventional icons. Thus I have 'invented' my own more distinct symbols. I did it not for to claim that this should be a new type of standard. But it reflects the situation in which the common symbols only seem to be a substitute for the missing real symbols.

What is standard,hm?I think in the real chess the Staunton pieces are a standard.In virtual chess the most computers and chessservers use pieces as we have here in Bk and they are very similar to the Stauntonpieces.In chessvariants.com they have the alfaerie-chessset.The icons for the chancellor and the cardinal are very logical and selfdeclarend.In Janusschess we have an icon,which was defined by the inventor and the januschessfederation http://www.janusschach.de/.

Hi Morphy72, the filtering is already implemented in Smirf. To do it manually would be frustrating. But a tool like the Smirf program is a usable solution.

Hi to all!
I believe in CRC! It's allligned on Bobby Fisher ideas!. I've discussed it on http://forum.fide.com/viewtopic.php?t=684
I hope that the filtering (and/or pondering) of unwanted positions has to be done very soon!
Bya at all!

Hi Caissus, who declared that 'standard'? I have seen some very different icons. Overmore the Queen still is not sybolized (which is good so) by a hybrid piece symbol combined from rook and bishop.

Your pieceset is nice,Reinhard.But I personnally would prefer to play with standard pieces like here:
Link

Hi Caissus,

I think you would have seen my two symbols for Janus/Archbishop and Chancdellor. I have tried for long to find some distinct but gait associating icons. So the Janus is symbolized by crossed swords to point to the main moving directions and the enhenced power in short range.

I have bought my pieces here:
http://members.aol.com/DreierR/
and my 8x10 board at:
http://www.schachdepot.de/germany/home.htm
If not available you can make the board yourself,and also the chancellor. Pics at: http://caissus.gmxhome.de/Schach.htm

They accept www.paypal.at - not the most beautiful chess set in the world, but for about 39 euros, shipping included, it´s jours. For paypal you just need an Austrian giro account.

without a credit card a little bit hard ...

Do you prefer Janus over GothicChess.org ?

if someone knows if it is possible to get a janus board/figures in köln or bonn please tell me! i will stay there from 02.-07.12.

My wife and I, we want to buy a Janus board and (Janus)chessmen to play at home, but we cannot find it in France.Perhaps it's possible in Germany or in USA...If somebody knows this please send a message to us.

The Smirf beta program has been updated to 0.7.2. I noticed that the logic when to use O-O-O or O-O is inverted in Janus Chess then normal. So I had to implement some additional changes ...

in FRC and CRC O-O is not always the short variant, same for Janus chess (I prosume). But if you target really to the side with less squares to be made empty the probability to have them empty earlier might by higher.

or 0-0-0, any statistics ? I catch me always using the short variant. It doesn´t bother me, just an observation.

To discuss the method patent property of Gothic Chess is misleading. The 10x8 chess scene is not visited that dense by users. So it would be counterproductive to insist of that patent to be ok or not or whether it would make sense to establish a game patent at all. I do not intend to patent my random 10x8 variant, because I am convinced it would be making that subject even unattractive. And I am not willing to invest a lot of time in discussing questions of patenting games. But Ed Trice has made his own decision on Gothic Chess, and obviously it has been possible to get such a game patented in the USA. So live and let live.

If you mean me, no, it plays on a planet of its own. Smirf alrady participated this year.

well put. Are you considering entering your prog in the Gothic computer championships?

In the country of my home, namely Germany, also, there is a truly huge discussion about not really complex patents (I didn´t say GC wasn´t complex) in the heavy internet users´ community which mainly consists of university students of young age, argueable the potential users of Gothic Vortex, despite patent laws are much different here. There will always be a way to play the game wihout caring about the patent, just because, for example, birds chess can lead to GC. The Gothic Chess Federation should see that as a good chance for even more popularity and via this way more sales of Gothic Vortex. My father is a patent attorney (not for informatics or chess). In a small talk he said to be rather sure to get a patent applied, he was not so sure about the chances of keeping it if anybody invests into a struggle. But, as said, the rules are much differnt, not comparable ... and the US economy is known to be innovative.

Sumerian, in a randomized version, even if you have setups identical to gothic chess, it won't infringe the patent because it is a different game arrived at randomly and you are not calling it or representing it as gothic chess. You could just add a rule like "if a player does not move a pawn or knight within the first 5 moves, that player loses the game."

(participant of the Gothic Chess World Championship)

... by Smirf 0.7.1 ... :-)

(Smirf is now able also to play Janus Chess)

[Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date "2004.11.26"]
[Time "21:38:47"]
[Round ""]
[White "Smirf 0.7.1"]
[Black "Smirf 0.5.3"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rnbqckabnr/pppppppppp/0/0/0/0/PPPPPPPPPP/RNBQCKA
BNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

1.d4 d6 2.g3 Nc6 3.h3 h5 4.Bxc6 bxc6 5.Af3 Bd7 6.Axh5 g6 7.Af3 Bf6 8.c4 d5
9.Na3 e6 10.j4 a5 11.i4 Ng7 12.g4 j5 13.Be3 jxi4 14.hxi4 Ni6 15.Qc1 g5 16.Nh3
Ae7 17.Ag1 Rb8 18.Ni5 Rh8 19.j5 Nh4 20.Nh3 Rh6 21.i5 Rh8 22.j6 ixj6 23.ixj6 Rj8
24.Aj4+ Cg7 25.Axg7+ Kxg7 26.j7 Ad6 27.Rj2 Ni2 28.Cg2 Nh4 29.Ci3 Qh8 30.Bxg5
Bxg5 31.Qxg5+ Kf8 32.Ch5 Ni6 33.Cxh8+ Rxh8 34.j8=C Nxj8 35.Rxj8 Rxj8 36.Qxj8+
Ke7 37.Qxb8 Ah2+ 38.Ke1 Axg4 39.Ng5 e5 40.Qxc7 Af6 41.Nf3 exd4 42.Qxa5 Ke8
43.Qa8+ Ke7 44.Rd1 Ai3 45.Qg8 Bg4 46.Nxd4 Ag2+ 47.Kd2 Ae4+ 48.Kc1 Bd7 49.Ndc2
Be6 50.cxd5 cxd5 51.b4 Axf2 52.Rd4 Kd7 53.Nb5 Aj6 54.Qb8 Ai7+ 55.Rf4 Axf4+
56.Qxf4 Ke8 57.Qd6 f5 58.Qxe6+ Kf8 59.Nd6 Kg7 60.Nxf5+ Kh7 61.Qh6+ Kg8 62.Qg7#
1-0

Reinhard.

There is a possibility to preview the uncomplete SMIRF program. But without having license keys it will only show a limited amount of its power, and it will often demand for looking into the license dialog. But who is willing to thest it nevertheless, see at: http://www.chessbox.de/beta.html Project Chronicle 2004-Sep-29

Width 10, height 8, yes variants, including random start positions if you like, and another program named ChessV even in the other row. Both have their advantages and can play a lot.

I'm not sure what all this stuff means, but I'd certainly like to play 8 X 10 variants on my computer. Is that what this stuff does?

<well here is that part of code, with comments in mixed German and English, which creates FEN for FRC 1...960 or CRC 1...48000. The filtering of unwanted positions has to be done later. The castling rules are comparable to FRC, I do not know, what I shoul show additionally to that.

// Genese FEN-String normal (>=0) Capablanca (<0)
const char *CFig::GetFen(int nr)
{
// 0 ==> Capablanca generic Positioning

// knight distributions over 5 free squares
static const int knight_pos[10] = {
3, // xx---
5, // x-x--
9, // x--x-
17, // x---x
6, // -xx--
10, // -x-x-
18, // -x--x
12, // --xx-
20, // --x-x
24 // ---xx
};

// lösche den Ausgabebereich komplett
int pos = TXT_LIM;
while (--pos >= 0) { FenZone[pos] = '\0'; }

// wurde Capablanca Figurset verlangt ?
bool istCRC = (nr <= 0);

if (istCRC) {
// Vorzeichenwechsel beim CRC
nr = -nr;
// decide whether the queen should be set 1st
bool q_first = ((nr % 2) != 0);
nr /= 2;
// set the 1st piece by dividing 5 on bright
// (targeting at first row, white side)
PlatziereInFen(nr % 5,
q_first ? (DAME_SYM ^ TOLOW)
: (ERZBISCH_SYM ^ TOLOW), 0);
nr /= 5;
// set the 2nd piece by dividing 5 on dark
// (targeting at first row, white side)
PlatziereInFen(nr % 5,
q_first ? (ERZBISCH_SYM ^ TOLOW)
: (DAME_SYM ^ TOLOW), 1);
nr /= 5;
}

// set the bishop by dividing 4 on white fields
// (targeting at first row, white side)
PlatziereInFen(nr % 4, (LAEUFER_SYM ^ TOLOW), 0);
nr /= 4;
// set the bishop by dividing 4 on black fields
// (targeting at first row, white side)
PlatziereInFen(nr % 4, (LAEUFER_SYM ^ TOLOW), 1);
nr /= 4;
// set the queen or chancellor on a free field
// dividing 6
PlatziereInFen(nr % 6,
istCRC ? (KANZLER_SYM ^ TOLOW)
: (DAME_SYM ^ TOLOW) );
nr /= 6;
// calculate knight positions by nr and set them
pos = knight_pos[nr % 10];
for (int bit = 5; --bit >= 0; ) {
if ((pos & (1 < bit)) != 0)
PlatziereInFen(bit, (SPRINGER_SYM ^ TOLOW));
}
// set the remaining pieces, rooks and king
PlatziereInFen(2, (TURM_SYM ^ TOLOW));
PlatziereInFen(1, (KOENIG_SYM ^ TOLOW));
PlatziereInFen(0, (TURM_SYM ^ TOLOW));

// generate the resulting FEN line
int breite = istCRC ? 10 : 8;
char *pC = &FenZone[breite];
*pC++ = '/';
for (pos = breite; --pos >= 0; ) {
*pC++ = BAUER_SYM ^ TOLOW;
}
for (pos = 4; --pos >= 0; ) {
*pC++ = '/';
*pC++ = (char)('0' + breite % 10);
}
// große Buchstaben
*pC++ = '/';
for (pos = breite; --pos >= 0; ) {
*pC++ = BAUER_SYM;
}
*pC++ = '/';
for (pos = 0; pos breite; ++pos) {
*pC++ = FenZone[pos] ^ TOLOW;
}
*pC++ = ' ';
*pC++ = WEISS_SYM;
*pC++ = ' ';
*pC++ = KOENIG_SYM;
*pC++ = DAME_SYM;
*pC++ = KOENIG_SYM ^ TOLOW;
*pC++ = DAME_SYM ^ TOLOW;
strcpy(pC, " - 0 1");

// liefere den neuen FEN-String zurück
return FenZone;
}

// platziere Figur an vorgegebener freier Stelle
// (falls Color <0 gewählt wurde, ist diese egal)
void CFig::PlatziereInFen
(int nrFrei, char zeichen, int feldCol = -1)
{
// Suchschleife über den FEN-String
for (int pos = 0, frei = 0; ; ++pos) {
// falsch farbene Stellen überspringen
// (Perspektive Weiß, Grundreihe von links)
if (feldCol >= 0 && !((feldCol ^ pos) & 1)) {
continue;
}
// setze auf das erste so gefundene freie Feld
if (!FenZone[pos] && nrFrei == frei++) {
FenZone[pos] = zeichen;
break;
}
}
}

Have you written the lines of code to program the setup positions and how to castle? Once it is complete, with your permission the host of this website could make it playable on this website.

CRC (or if you like it: FullChess) is not intended to undergo Ed Trice's GC patent, but it would like to give its fascinating 10x8 board possibilities to everybody. Thus it tries to avoid conflicts with the Gothic Chess starting array by demanding at least three differences in White's base line. I am not demanding more differences. They might be but there is no need to be more distinct. Only very few from the 48.000 initial unfiltered arrays are that related to GC to be therefore excluded. Most of the missing arrays are kicked off only because of having uncovered pawns.

That's good that you have come up with rules. But shouldn't having all but 3 positions similar to gothic chess still be sufficiently different than gothic chess?

Are we calling this CRC or FullChess?

I would love to play the game on this site.

CAPABLANCA RANDOM CHESS (2004-Nov-26) Proposal

This definition of CRC should cover the following goals:

a) creating an interesting drosophila for chess programmers
b) using Capablancas 10x8 Chess board geometry
c) using Capablancas piece set (incl. archbishop and chancellor)
d) applying rules aligned to Fischer Random Chess
e) avoiding conflicts to any claimed patents

The CRC rules are:

a) creating a starting position (one of 48.000):
1) the bishops have to be placed upon different colored
squares; same rule applies to the implicite bishop pieces:
queen and archbishop (aligned to FRC)
2) the king always has to be placed somewhere between the
rooks to enable castlings (aligned to FRC)
3) use only such positions without unprotected pawns (Chess)

b) describing a method of generating starting positions on
free squares by using a dice or random number generator:
1) select queen or the archbishop to be placed first (2x)
2) place the selected 1st piece upon a bright square (5x)
3) place the selected 2nd piece upon a dark square (5x)
4) one bishop has to be placed upon a bright square (4x)
5) one bishop has to be placed upon a dark square (4x)
6) one chancellor has to be placed upon a free square (6x)
7) one knight has to be placed upon a free square (5x)
8) one knight has to be placed upon a free square (4x)/2
9) set the king upon the center of three free squares left
11) set the rooks upon the both last free squares left
12) this establishes White's first row, the Black side
has to be built up symmetrically to this
13) place ten pawns similar to traditional chess in a row
14) skip this position if it has unprotected pawns or not
at least three positions in line 1 differently filled
compared to Gothic Chess, this finally gives about
21.259 distinct starting arrays.

c) nature of (asymmetric Fischer-) castlings:
1) castlings are (like in traditional chess) only valid
if neither the affected king or rook has been moved, or
there would be a need to jump over any third piece, or
the king would be in chess somewhere from his starting
position to his target field (both included). Therefore
all squares between king and its target square (included)
have to be free from third pieces, same applies to the
way the rook has to go to its target square.
2) the alpha-castling (O-O-O, White's left side):
like in FRC the king will be placed two rows distant
from the border (here c-file) and the rook at the next
inner neighboured square.
3) the omega-castling (O-O, White's right side):
like in FRC the king will be placed one row distant
from the border (here i-file) and the rook at the next
inner neighboured square.

d) performing castlings:
within a GUI try to move the king upon the related rook
or at least two squares into that direction; manually:
1) move the king outside of the board
2) move the rook to its end position (if need to)
3) move the king to his end position

e) extended FEN encoding:
1) the extended FRC-FEN could be used as a base
2) 'a'/'A' are used to identify archbishops
3) 'c'/'C' are used to identify chancellors
4) '9' is used to mark nine empty fields
5) '0' is used to mark ten empty fields
6) if a castling enabled rook is not the most outer one
at that side, the letter of his file has to be placed
immediately following his castling marker symbol, where
'q'/'Q' are used for the alpha-, 'k'/'K' for omega-side.

f) engine notation rules for castling moves:
According to UCI convention the castling moves should be
written by using both coordinates (source and target field)
of the involved king. But there are castlings, where the
king does only one or none simple step. In that cases the
castling should be distinguishable by appending a 'k', like
already practized in promotion moves to make them unique.
Overmore an engine should accept O-O or O-O-O (no zeroes),
but only use them, when the GUI would demand for such a
less precise notation.

Ah! The formula!

Indeed, you are right! It proves that you have read my proposal, thank you! I will correct that mistake at once, that is because a German is using English ...

Well i'm seing something wrong here.......

At your site you have that CRC positions should obey to this rule:
c) compared to the initial array of GC at least three squares have to be differently filled;

And now you are saying:
Skip this position if it has at least three positions in line 1 similar to Gothic Chess.


2 things i see wrong:

1)You should replace "at least" in what you wrote here, with "at most". At least 3 means: 3 or 4 or 5 or....10. At most 3 means: 3 or 2 or 1 or 0. So you should obviously skip positions which have 3*** or 2 or 1 or 0 squares filled differently. So you should replace "at least" with "at most".
***=actually the 3 is wrong also and this is my second note.


2)You should replace at most 3(having already corrected the "at least" with "at most"), with at most 2. At your site you say that a position should be legal only if it has at least 3 squares differently filled. That means if it has 3 or 4 or 5 or...10 squares differently filled, it is legal. So it is illegal only if it has 2 or 1 or 0 squares filled the same. So we should skip those positions, so we should skip every position that has at most 2 squares differently filled.

(Regards, Solve a!=b!c! if you remember me...)

It needs to add a matching FEN string to the PGN like:

[Event "Casual Game"]
[Site "BrainKing.com (Prague, Czech Republic)"]
[Date "2004.03.22"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Pioneer54"]
[Black "tangram"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "rjnbkqbnjr/pppppppppp/0/0/0/0/PPPPPPPPPP/RJNBKQB
NJR w sKQkq - 0 1"]

1. f4 e6 2. Nd3 Ng6 3. g4 Bh4+ 4. Bf2 Jj6 5. Ng3 c6 6. i3 Bxg3 7. Bxg3 Ji8
8. f5 d6 9. fxg6 hxg6 10. e3 Bi6 11. h4 e5 12. Ja3 f6 13. Nxe5 fxe5
14. Qxf8+ Kxf8 15. Bxe5 Jh6 16. Jj3 Bh7 17. Rf1+ Kg8 18. Jc4+ Kh8
19. Rf8+ Bg8 20. Jxg6# 1-0