For Espionage, when it says "There is no check or checkmate", does that mean in this variants we play without headquaters?

Here comes my proposal for the 3-game-match-variant:

The Winner:
The winner of the match is the player who first wins two games. Thus, the match lasts 3 games max.

Number of pieces:
Each player has a total of 39 pieces for all of the 2-3 games. A headquarter will be added for each game.

Size of the board:
8x8

The mechanic:

First round: White places at least 10 pieces (plus hq) out of the 39 pieces on the board. Then black places at least 10 pieces out of his 39 pieces on the board. The number of pieces set on the board does not have to be equal. I think, this gives this variant an extra strategic edge.

Second round: Colours change, White places again at least 10 pieces on the board. Then black decides on at least ten pieces, ... see above

Third round:
All remaining pieces have to be placed on the board.

A headquarter is added with each round/game.

The pieces in detail:
- 4x5er
- 4x4er
- 4x3er
- 7xrecon
- 6xsab
- 4x2er
- 4x1er
- 6xbomb
plus the hq, which will be added with each round.

I guees this variant offers a whole new range for strategic thinking.

What do you think about this?

Sandoz:
This 3-game-match variant is very fascinating, but I'm afraid it is quite complicated!
It would be difficult to implement for the programmer and also difficult to play for beginners.
I'm afraid only 10-15 players in the site would really play it!
I think extinction or atomic espionage would work easier and better!

What about a rectangular 10x8 version?
25 pieces
5 moves (as in large espionage)
the board is large 10 and long 8

Are you still in time to put it in the poll?

dAGGER:
yep, it might not be easy to implement this variant.
But, on the other hand it's "just" the implementation of the three-round-logic and the pieces-logic. As the rules of the game itself remain basically unchanged. But, I'm not a programmer.

The economical decision whether it's worth developing this game/variant in terms of potenzial no. of players etc. ... that has to be made by brainking. May be, Fencer strives this board and could simply leave a statement like "forget it guys,. Never ever!" or "great idea guys, please go ahead with the concept!".

Well, I wouldn't mind if we first start with the atomic or extinction version. But, honestly, if I understood the rules right, I'm not sure if this would fit with the basic concept behind the game espionage. In other words: these two variants won't have much in common with the original game dynamics/concepts. Feels more like a quick-shoot-version. This does not mean that I won't like it, ;-)

For many years we have been trying to implement a 4 player (team version) on IYT and since then Patrick has shot it down saying that it is not feesable. i think that it can happen now. If Fencer feels that it too is not possible then I would agree to take it off the board. In no other game on either site is this a game. I think it would be a great learning tool . accepting a random opp in the waiting room to be partners with.

Ruth's page... what happened to it. please tell me the stats were saved? Chaos?!!?

Nothingness: sorry, they're not! It's horrible. At some point Yahoo removed geocities, I learned about it when I tried to log in after I hadn't been there for quite some time.

if someone has the URL,it's probably still archived on the wayback machine.All my bookmarks from couple years ago got deleted in a computer crash 

What happened to happy hermit?
Any information?

Sandoz: I can see he hasn't been on the site for a month. This isn't new for Eric. He'll probably show up again within a few months.

Chaos: ah okay, thanks.
I saw that as well including his huge amount of vacation days shrinking to zero. and now he's close to timing out in at least 150 games including our little espionage battle :-(

how is everyone making out with the mentoring? Is the beginners tourney moving along at a nice speed?

dmoresco is the winner of Open Fast #1. He wins the final match against Thom27.
Congratulation

I have a fast open tourney starting in a few weeks 200 brains to the winner. good luck!

Small Fast Espionage (Nothingness vs. Varazslo)

Here is a game vs Varsalo i recently completed. the purpose of the post is to show how important vision is and to show how leaving unproductive pieces deep in your opponents territory can be deadly especially while playing partially blind.

the move here was basically the move that lost me the game. i could nto see what was attacning and i was afriad of further penetration. i guess that the piece attacking the three was a sab and i was wrong. and it was all downhill from here.

How are we progressing on the new game proposal? i am working a proposal myself which i will present to the SL commitee soon.

Just want to come back to our poll, which I haven't forgotten, of course. I think 8 weeks is a proper poll-period for guys who play games and tournaments which often last months or even years. ;-)

Well, according to our poll the most preferred variant is extinction espionage. 4 out of 6 participants voted for this.

For the results in detail please have a look here:
http://www.doodle.com/xcxzd4iidcrz6m2k

Nothingness:
I am looking forward to your proposal.
Didn't know that the SL commitee still exists :-)

Sandoz: lol i dont think that the committee exists anymore either but probably shoudl be reinputted once we get the ball rolling again on this site.

My vote for a different version would be simply to allow a piece to move back to the square it came from. I think the attacker is always at a disadvantage in closed espionage, particularly the small version and this would eliminate this.

Justaminute: This was discussed many years ago. the majority of the players wanted a more aggresive version of espionage\sabotage. Allowing the move back and forth to the same spot could equate to many more draws. Also it creates a more defensive style ( which i prefer) but being realistic it makes the game bit dull. The game already prefers the aggressor by allowing ties to go to the attacker and not like the original game of stratego where both pieces are removed. This is also an issue with small espionage. the game is broken, more so on IYT, the random volcano fixed that problem to some point. Many other players can comment on this better than i could and with examples...hint hint....

i also feel that there are certain rules that cannot be tweeked. That is one of the baseline rules. it would be like allowing a pawn in chess to move backwards. it would totally change chess theory as it is.

To all those entering the brain prize tourney. read the tourney explanation carefully. if you are only going to move once a day this may not be the tourney for you.

I agree it would be confusing and I don't seriously expect it to change, it is just a personal gripe with espionage and the reason why I only play small open with any regularity.

Nothingness:

OK.  You talked me into it. :)

happy hermit: wow that was hard work lol

I have four games of Open Fast on the waiting list and am happy to get in some games in other variants as well.

An idea for a new piece, though it may only be interesting on a larger board.

Engineer - Automatically builds a 'road' when it moves.  Any piece on a 'road' may move to any other square lying on the road in one turn.

Not sure if each army should have their own roads and/or be able to destroy roads. Having recons (spies?scouts?, whatever they are called here) positioned on a road revealing enemy pieces that cross the road is also a possibility.

There seems to be both some potential for speeding things up as
well as introducing a new level of complexity with this.  I think larger boards / piece counts would also be possible.

Thoughts?

happy hermit: you could also just give that road creating power to an existing piece. everytime a 2 moves he creates a road and when ever an enemy 2 moves into that road that road is destroyed. the 2 is the forgotten piece. but when you are on the road you are vulnerable to attack or perhaps you will be able to lose to a sab regardless of the rank. perhaps the road give you scout abilities from stratego.

how about a super spy that can see two spaces around it

Nothingness: it looks very powerfull, because is movable, but it inspires me to implement radar. It would have this actions actions: 1. move or just stand, in this case it cant see like other normal pieces. 2. eject aerial (cost one turn - in notation it is marked). With ejected aerial are two ather actions available - scan - to see, say,two pieces in all directions (cost one turn, noticed in notation) or plug-in aerial (cost one turn, noticed in notation). With ejected aerial radar cant move. Radar has not passive watching like spy has - it cant see enemy when dont scanning. Radar is very vulnerable and can be destroyed by all other pieces. "Moving" radar can destroy sappers, spies, radar and HQ.

lukulus:

I like the radar piece (and I think you defined it well), but, unless I am missing something, it seems to lend itself to helping a passive player.  In other words, is there a better use of radar than putting it in the front  or second row and using the aerial on Move 1 and leaving it there? 

I think this game, as defined, is played optimally in a defensive posture and any modifications to the rules should be made to benefit the aggressor. 

That said, I wouldn't mind seeing a radar piece added if other additions favorable to the attacker were made simultaneously.

lukulus: Do I understand it correctly that “rejecting an aerial” is a response of sorts to an aerial ejected by the opponent, preventing the effect of the opponent's aerial?

happy hermit: may be it is because I am very passive player:) I see your point, but I think it could be very danger if radar is in midst of attack - with ejected aerial it cant move so it blocks own forces and using scan action costs time. May be there would be rule, that after 4 moves w/o action aerial automatically plug in and it cost one turn or so,but it llooks a bit complicated.

For attacking players there shold be parrachutist. It can move by two fields, also jump over vulcano (not ash at all:) and other stones. If landed on occupied field fight will start, if parrachutist win or if field is unoccupied, parrachutist also see all adjusted fields. Move restrictions - parrachutist can move by 2 fields every turn, but jump over occupied field once in two turns. Also after moving by two fields parrachutist is revealed.

Pedro Martínez: it was one of my fault in English:) It would be plug in instead. Both players can eject aerial in same time.

lukulus: OK, got it. I would use “apply” or “use” instead of “plug in,” but it's just me being me there. :) However, the idea of volcano ash should be taken up! Maybe it can be used to shoot down the skydivers…

Caused by a 1 that cannot move a space when causing it but counts as a piece move. The one must be touching the volcano diagonally to cause the eruption. The Eruption destroys any adjacent piece (hor or vert) and freezes pieces within 2 spaces for 2 turns(hor vert and diag) by covering them with ash--applies to both black and white pieces. Frozen pieces cannot be revealed by recons until they thaw, but capture rules are the same as usual. Previously revealed pieces covered in ash are disguised again until revealed by recon...oh wait, that won't make a difference with piece moves tracked in the move list.

there is the option of having a specific spot being a "vision area" if you move into this GREY area you will be exposed then vanish once you leave that spot. the game would be played on a open board with GREY areas that are in designated locations (volcano like spots). then it depends on your memory or your tracking ability. So you are not limited in your movement but there is that danger that you have to reveal your pieces. but here is the catch... you have to play with one less spy than normal. Play this on a 10Vx11H board with 4 GREY areas. If the Spy comes into a GREY area he can have SUPER VISION but he is destroyed at the end of your opponents move and any piece that it sees is permanently visible. All other pieces that go into this area will not be destroyed but are just temporarily visble to your opponent. Your pieces will be as follows Two 5s, Two 4s, Three 3s, Four 2s, Six 1s, Four Sapp, and Four Spys. Four bombs, 1 flag. The game is played on a 10x11 board and the grey areas are in the middle on the 2-5-7-10 squares horizontally.

Dark prince has a very excellent idea with the erupting volcano. i like that!

Actually I wasn't serious, but making the point that the move list can be detrimental to many possible good game ideas. Maybe the move list should indicate only the player's moves and not those of the opponent.

Nothingness: You can always track down the piece you've seen once by looking at the move list on the right, so the pieces might as well stay visible. You could replace the vulcanoes by these grey spots. This way you can move the pieces already seen without further revealing and choose to reveal more to gain more movement freedom. I like the idea!