baddessi: enjoy your holiday you lucky thing :) and maybe by the time you get back there will be a new owner of BK and that could be one of the things that could be fixed ;)

baddessi: I hope you have a great time in Ireland over the next few weeks. You and the hubby will enjoy the beautiful countryside.. Don't let Geomomo try to trick you into buying his goats and beware of Bushmills friday.

Marshmud: um...I am going BECAUSE of Bushmills Friday!

Very much looking forward to meeting my Irish friends!

Wish you were actually going to be there with the pony mailitia, Jim. WHat a great time that would be!

Bernice: Thanks Bernice! I will be on the lookout for rich Irish men for you!

Bernice: as for the possible new owner of BK, I have nothing but respect for Fencer and all he has done to create and maintain this awesome game site, but if it changes hands, I will be happy to help the new owner in any ways I can

baddessi: Will you be visiting the UK?

crosseyed: yes, going on a 12 day tour of Ireland. I will only be in England long enough to catch the plane to Dublin. WE are so excited!

baddessi:

You go girl

ketchuplover: thanks. Very excited

baddessi: Have fun.

crosseyed: thanks! Maybe next time to UK. Haven't seen any of England except for Heathrow

baddessi: When you do we must meet up.

crosseyed: It would be my pleasure!

game 6663440
Last move of my opponent: 1 June 2014, 17:59:00. Time out -> 2 June 2014, 02:50:00. 8:51:00 hours after move of my opponent (FC with 18 hours bonus !!!!!!!!!)
http://brainking.com/pl/PhotoAlbum?alid=2160&phid=16462
Nackgammon (AlterMann vs. aaru)

aaru: When had the game started? I can see there is a 30 days limit.

game 6663653
Last move of my opponent: 2 June 2014, 17:25:25. Time out -> 2 June 2014, 19:40:00. 2:14:13 hours after move of my opponent !!! (FC with 18 hours bonus)

Fevga (AlterMann vs. aaru)

Ps.
Strange - I cannot put next picture to my Bug gallery.

aaru: The game had started 24/03/2014 with a 30 days limit, aaru. I think this is your problem. You should pay more attention to the time *limit* of a Fischer clock.
It is not just the 18 hours bonus, you know. It does not look like a bug to me.

ThunderGr: Time limits are way too generous here, it's a bit of a joke. Some players wait until the very last moment before time-out to make a move, it's really quite sad. As far as I'm concerned slow players kill game websites, they suck all the enjoyment out of the games, makes everyone lose interest after a while. There are more and more of these guys here on Brainking (I'm not naming names but I'm itching to!). I have my own theory as to why.

moistfinger: Maybe so, but, if I am not mistaken, the 3rd number in the fischer clock indicates the *absolute limit* of the game. That is, despite of what the other 2 numbers say, the game cannot exceed the *total* of the 3rd number. So, a game with a 30 days limit will end at the 30th day, no matter who's turn is to move at that time.

ThunderGr: You're wrong. In that case, the game should have ended on April 24
Pls read sth more about FC ->

http://www.chesscentral.com/chess_clock_how_use_a/157.htm


"Let's look at an example of a player's time usage (and his corresponding clock display) across the first few moves of a 40/20 Fischer increment game.

The White player at the start of such a game has "40:00" showing on his digital clock, which means that he starts with forty minutes in which to make all his moves. Black hits his button to start White's clock (and to start the game). White already knows what he wants to play, makes the move 1.e4, and hits his clock to complete his move. Three seconds have elapsed between the time Black hit his clock to begin White's move and White hitting his clock to end the move.

In a traditional "sudden death" game, White's clock would read "39:57" (showing that three seconds had been used) and that would be it. But since this is a "Fischer" time control game with a twenty second increment, the digital clock has been pre-programmed to add twenty seconds back to a player's time whenever his button is pushed. Thus twenty seconds gets added to White's clock when he presses the button to finish his move, and the timer's display now reads "40:17" (his initial 40 minutes - the 3 seconds he took to move + the 20 "bonus" seconds of the added increment):

40:00 - 0:03 = 39:57
39:57 + 0:20 = 40:17

Black plays 1...e5 and hits his clock to end his move and start White's timer. The White player snaps off 2.Nf3, again taking three seconds to make his move and hit the button on his timer:

40:17 - 0:03 = 40:14
40:14 + 0:20 = 40:34

...and so White has actually gained 34 seconds since the game's start because he's playing pretty quickly.

Black bangs out 2...Nc6 and hits his clock. The White player already knows he wants to play a Ruy Lopez and plays 3.Bb5, again taking three seconds to make his move and hit his clock:

40:34 - 0:03 = 40:31
40:31 + 0:20 = 40:51

White's picked up nearly a full minute - he now has nearly 41 minutes to make all the rest of his moves.

But Black has other ideas; either by design or by accident, he doesn't play the standard Ruy reply of 3...a6 and instead plays 3...Nf6. This throws White for a bit of a loop as he hasn't prepared for this move. He eventually figures out a reply but takes a full two minutes and thirty-four seconds to think, make the move, and hit the button on his clock:

40:51 - 2:34 = 38:17
38:17 + 0:20 = 38:37

...and White now has 38 minutes and 37 seconds left on his clock to make all of his moves before he'd "lose on time".

I've played quite a few online games using the "40/20" Fischer increment and discovered that, on average, each player usually uses about an hour to play; this is a good increment to use when you have about two hours to play a game. For a faster game you could easily start with a shorter "sudden death" time or a shorter increment (or both, such as "20/10": twenty initial minutes with ten seconds added each move). A few algebraic equations have been published which let you approximate the time a game will take when using a particular Fischer time control; although it's impossible to predict infallibly the length of time which a (theoretically) open-ended game will take, these equations can at least give players a "ballpark" idea of the expected duration of a game.

Fischer increments were officially recognized by the United States Chess Federation for tournament use starting in the mid 1990's. This caused a fair amount of contoversy at the time since players had to replace their analog clocks with (then more expensive) digital models. That initial furor has died down over time, but you'll see many players still using their analog clocks for casual "sudden death" games at chess clubs or between rounds at chess tournaments. (In fact, an analog clock is still my choice for "speed" games with my friends and family, since anyone can understand how to set and use one without any special instructions.)"  

In BrainKing we have 3 parts of Fischer's clock - A/B/C:
A - time for move (on the beginning of game)
B - time added after each move
C - maximum time for one move

Example #1 -> 30days/1day/30days

Games started at 8am. Your move at 9am
30 days - 1 hour + 1 day -> 30 days (because in C we have 30 days)

Example #2 -> 21days / 18hours / 31days 23 hours

Player X - dead time at 5pm, moved at 4:40pm (20 minuts before dead line)
20 minuts + 18 hours -> 18 hours 20 minuts

aaru: Thanks for taking the time to explain this, I never could quite get my head around the Fischer clock and the time-out rules.

aaru: I see. Thank you for clarifying this.

aaru: Where you playing on time limit? How much time did you have after your last move? Had you noticed?

ThunderGr: I have no idea. Even it was 1 minut -> still should be 18 hours & 1 minut

aaru: You are right, of course, but if you had noticed, it could help pin down the bug. If it was showing correctly the incorrect time limit then it is a calculation bug but if not then it would be a more difficult bug to find.

It is very difficul.
+1000 games
It is not possible to notice all details.
Other thing. When you play on Android, you have no idea about time per move...

Fencer: Dear Fencer, do we have a general problem with Fischer's clock? Aaru is loosing lot's of them 'cause of time out, but in all of them the bonus time didn't work.... i use to set Fischer's clock on my new games/tournaments, but if it doesn't work in general or is it a singular error that occured several times to aaru?....... (aaru posted here various issues on his time-outed games)

thanks for taking care

speachless: I don't think we have a general problem. Mostly because:

1) Fischer's Clock had been introduced many years ago and nobody ever complained about any suspicious behaviour. Yes, there were some complaints but they had been caused by misunderstanding the concept of this feature.

2) No problem of this kind ever happened to me, not even during the test phase. I am sure that a serious anomaly would have been discovered a long time ago.

3) Although I don't have time for a serious and thorough investigation, I've had a quick look at the source code. Everything seems to be normal and as it should be.

So, my best guess is that aaru was unlucky to find a specific combination of parameters that causes the issue he described. Unfortunatelly I cannot provide more information at this moment.

Fencer: Thanks a lot for your infos Fencer, I appreciate the fact that you verified the code. I will still use Fischer's clock as it works pretty fine to me.

Fencer: What seems weird is that this sequence of errors seems to always happen between the same 2 players...

Roberto Silva: Maybe it is more related to aaru 'cause in one of my games aaru went time out too.... ?

speachless: Game notation board makes it hard to determine anything when it keeps the same date and time for every move which would be the last move made.

Universal Eyes: If only some people played a little faster, there wouldn't be any need for Fischer's clock and we would all have more fun. Between Fischer's clock, weekend days and the ultra generous Vacation days settings playing here sometimes feels like watching paint dry.

Dice Cheater: seriously? here we are speaking about an issue and you take the chance to complain about slow playing users? come on!!!! we have here options given, that are used from players as they are, no more no less.
so tell me, if players like you that complains about opponents that only uses the options set by the game-opener would it not be better for you only to join games with "no vacation days" set to maybe 1 day or 5 hours or whatever you think is fast enough?

there are players here that enjoy playing on another way as you use to do, they enjoy playing "move by move" without having the stress to play a game fast till the end.

if i have the possibility to join 1500 games at 1 time, 'cause i'm paying for that possibility, i can't see why i should be wrong, just because i enjoy playing differently as you do!

it's very annoying, you didn't very bring any input that matters the issue of aaru, you just came in and complain about "slow playing players"... i don't see the fact... why don't you ask for a new forum board and call them "slow players on brainking"... if it helps

speachless: I think you are being too harsh on the person.
It is true, his issue is not related to aaru's problem but this board is not about aaru's problem either. It is a general board. Everybody can post an issue at their discretion.

I agree with you that the complain is not justified, but a simple pointing out of why it is so should be enough, IMHO.

ThunderGr: a little bit of temperament doesn't hit anyone - i think. and i don't think either this board is ALL about aaru. i can stand behind what i wrote 'cause i hear this complaining a lot around all boards and i just had enough for a while :-) that is how my temperament went from 0 to 50 :-) i think dice cheater is old enough to reply to my thread how he thinks he should.

Universal Eyes: yes, you're right about the time tracking, i agree totaly

Marshmud: i understand what you mean. but if someone comes in an open forum here to complain about people that "should learn to play faster" as he say, then this might be same humiliating for them "who doesn't play as fast DC think they should" ....so i think if people cant manage temperament and direct reactions on their complaining against people that play for fun in another speed, then they maybe shouldn't complain over other players in public.... so if any opinion is allowed, maybe also mine is...

i don't think it's ok to shoot against players that use their possibilities given by brainking.com as standard possibilities

this is an open forum which is intended to be about brainking

we allow a few off-topic posts, but when there are too many then we will gently ask to continue elsewhere

both the posts of aaru and of dice cheater are within the topics of this forum, so they are both allowed

however it shows of respect of the original posted to leave his thread on his topic, and not hijack it for your own topic

therefore dice cheater could best have started a new thread instead of posting his opinions about slow players as a reply on a post in the thread of aaru

aside of that : the subject of slow players have been talked about a LOT already and there are many opinions about this .. the site offers many ways to setup your games and tournaments, so you can always find a game with a time limit which you like best ... and if you somehow do get stuck with a slow player you can always ask him gently in a pm to move faster (i am not the fastest player, but i can move faster against specific opponents when asked)

about the problem with the timeouts of aaru .. i have no idea as i hardly use the fishers clock, and i am glad speachless is looking into them as well :)

Hrqls:

speachless: I agree with you totally. This guy only plays 8 games. We as paying members take advantage of our membership and perhaps take on too many tournaments because I like to support people who take the time to set them up. I like to play fast but I cannot makes moves for every game everyday.

crosseyed:
I likewise get tired of hearing freeloaders whining.

Justaminute: Condescending attitude towards a person is hardly justified. The site would be much less without the non-paying members. Please, consider that when you express this kind of opinion.

ThunderGr:
And yet we have to read endless posts from non paying members complaining about paying members playing too slowly. Time to fight back. Personally I think they contribute very little.

Justaminute: It is understandable that when you have just 20 games allowance to play, the delay in moves gives you a harder time than when you have dozens, hundreds or thousands.
Instead of initiating a rivalry, it is best if you explain it to them and help them find games with better time-controls for their preferences.
As for the contribution, I was a non-paying member a few months back, as well.
Several of my games are against non-paying members because most paying members...do tend to move slowly for my liking, even in time-controls like 2dpm-no days off.
If people like the site, they can bring other members as well, which could either become paying members or contribute with their participation, ideas and, yes, even whining.
If paying members are being condescending instead of understanding and helpful, those people will, most likely, leave and the site loses with them leaving, as well.

Last, but not least, I think it is best to behave to non-paying members with the same respect you would want to be treated if you were a non-paying member.

ThunderGr:
I think posting to discussion boards should be a privilege of paying members only.
20 moves is an allowance for people to determine whether they want to join the site or not. If they want to spend years as non members playing only 20 moves then that is their decision. but I don’t see I should have to listen to their complaints that they are getting less than they want when they have paid nothing for it.

I've received more than a few complaints from members (usually non-paying but sometimes not) about slow play My usual response is "buy a membership so you don't have to beg for moves". It's illogical to me that someone selects a game with a 3 or 5 day move limit then complains if the opponent uses most or all of that limit. Especially if a player is only playing 20 games, they have more than enough opportunity to select only games with a 1 day limit. Leave the others alone. Of course, then they would probably complain if their opponent wasn't moving 3 or 4 times a day.

Justaminute: What you propose does not sound unreasonable to me. When I was a non-paying member I was wondering whether I could post to discussion boards or not, before I post my first ignorant question that some very helpful paying members bothered to answer.

The creation of a board specifically for non-paying members to post and the reservation of the others for paying members would help a lot, I think.
This way, those willing to help could check that board while those like you, that are bothered by those posts could avoid the "nuisance".

I think that complaining is as much human as possible and that it is not confined to either paying or non-paying members.
It is in anyone's discretion to misinterpret a complain if they so wish, but this does not make the interpretation right.
Complaining is a form of interaction and posting a complain in a general way *may* result in the improvement of someone's situation(or it may get them flamed, of course :P).
I am one of those that prefer even flames to stay in the non-condescending spectrum of discussion :).

ThunderGr:
I think this is a sensible proposal, 1 board that I can ignore if my blood pressure can't take it any more like the politics board.

badgerboy78: I find it unreasonable to *complain* about your opponent moving within his time-limits.
I do not think this has anything to do with membership level. And a simple, I move within my time limits, please do not complain about that, would suffice, in my opinion.
There are questionable behaviors, though, like players that move reasonably fast but, when they see they are going to lose the game, start moving at time limit, which is really unsportsmanlike but the only thing you can do about that is just stop playing against those players.