I have a question. Do people play like this in tournaments always flipping over their peices? I think it would be a tired affair after turning and turning and turning.

How about randomly placed "wild" pieces? Those grey pieces could be randomly placed at the beginning of the game by the software (just a couple of them). Then, for the rest of the game, either player could use those pieces as their own. They'd never change status, always usable by either player. A grey located diagonal from the corner would definately add a significant aspect to the game. :-)

(just translanted the rules to dutch so i started to think about them :))


would it be a nice variation if a player would place 1 piece of a 3rd color .. (grey) which would turn all enclosed pieces into the other color. When the move is completed and the pieces have been turned, then the grey piece changes into the color of the player who made the move.

so it would act as both a white as well as a black piece .. turning the black pieces which it encloses with a white piece on the other side and turning the white pieces with a black piece on the other side as well

would it be nice when a player could decide to place a piece of the color of the opponent as well ?

both players are still their initial colors .. but they can play a piece in the other color in their turn.

so for example i am white .. and at my first real move (after the 4 pieces in the center are placed) i move with a black piece turning one of my own (white) pieces to black ... then its blacks turn .. and he (of course) moves with black as well .. to turn my last white piece around to black ... making the while board black ... and black would have won

of course this would be bad of me .. so i wont be playing with my opponents piece at the first real move ... but further in the game it might create some interesting situations ?

Wil: Yes that makes sense that a win for both sides cannot be gauranteed! Kitti is correct, it is black that has a gauranteed win formula, but both colors cannot have a gauranteed win, my bad, thanks!

<>Czuch Chuckers: I thought there was a 6x6 >program that gaurantees a win 100% of games, no >matter what color?
Kitti is right: such a program could not guarantee to win itself ;-)

Nope, player to move second (== black at BK) is guarenteed a win on perfect play. However, i haven't heard of program with such capability being publicly available. It took weeks on SGI workstation originally solve the game.

I thought there was a 6x6 program that gaurantees a win 100% of games, no matter what color?

Yes, there are some very strong othello programs. The Moor beat world champion in 1980 and since then programmes have been able to match human world championship level players. In 1997 program called Logistello did beat the current world champion Murakami 6-0 in six matches. Of course using such programs is considered cheating and it is prohibited in BK user agreement.

Surely it is quite hard to know if someone is using such program or if he/she is just a very good player. Personally, i don't even bother thinking about that. If someone chooces to use such tools, they're only fooling themselves. It doesn't take anything away from me as i'm not obsessed with ratings and stats. I still enjoy my games no matter whom i play against.

If you suspect someone is using such programs, try talking to them about the game. There might be something fishy if someone plays like a pro but cannot explain the moves. Also try playing them in 6x6 or 10x10 as programs for those are not quite as strong as the regular 8x8 ones. At least i'm not aware of such programs.

In my opinion, even if you think you have a strong case about someone being a cheat, it is not worth to go public with your accusations. It just causes bad feelings, flamewars and such. And the accusations could be false, it's not a easy task to prove someone cheats. If you think someone does cheat and you're bothered about it, just don't play against him/her anymore.

They probably are around, but i would most definatly not use one. I play to get better not to be the best by cheating

I didn't even KNOW there was such a thing. Do some players on here use them? Is that why it is so difficult to win a game? Or is it that I am too 'thick' :-)

I’ve got a question about „Othello“ programs... Are they really so strong as they are called? Do they don’t have a weakness?
I would say I was a experienced player few years ago (but perhaps not so good as most payers here at brainking :) ), but I mostly played against programs in private.
In chess the programs have big problems with positional play and game strategies like in the opening called King’s Gambit. They always say that black has an advantage, but it is not so easy to say.
Can’t it be so in “Othello“ too?

I can’t say that cheating (using programs) is okay or not. But it should be a fair not using these programs. But you can’t control it that everyone isn’t cheating. So a prohibition doesn’t make sense.

I would be happy about every answer.

PS: I’m sorry for my bad English…

thanks

6x6 has been solved. With optimal play player 2 is guaranteed a 19-17 win with parallel opening position and 20-16 with diagonal opening. More info at: http://www.feinst.demon.co.uk/Othello/6x6sol.html

I guess the bigger ones will not be solved ever.

are any of the reversi variants on here solved ?

i can understand 6x6 being solved .. but not sure

Hrqls: Most sites give the option to go both ways... Gives it more options to work with than play 100 games the same way...

*nod* it was also explained to me in the reversi-ep fellowship :)

thanks :)

sorry for moving a bit slower now .. i have a lot to think about in reversi ;)

Hrqls:

Before the game got the name "Othello" it was allowed; also, I think another rule was added with the change of name (about sharing the discs). So, this we play must be another variant.

in my reversi rules it says you have to start diagonally
XO OX
OX XO

but on here you can also start horizontally or vertically

XX OO XO OX
OO XX XO OX

is that allowed ?

The World Othello Championships are nearly upon us. So why not play Fantasy Othello - full details can be found here

I still need 2 players for this tourny in SCRL fellowship, we have 6 players in the team, but 2 of them cant play :o(

Polygonal Alien killers are looking for 2 strong 8x8 reversi players to join the team for the upcoming 8x8 team tourney.. Any one interested please contact Ripley at PAK

I think , in 8x8, there is more advantage for white in a non diagnal start.... the common courtesy , to make it a more fair game, is to use diagnal start

Usually fixed diagonal starting position is used so the parellel starting might be confusing to seasoned reversi veterans :) Other than that its really not an issue. At least not in 8x8 nor in 10x10.

So what is better to start with - your pieces right next to each other, or diagnal starting position? Is there an advantage/disadvantage to either of these?

I'm normally not a big Reversi player, but with the 10x10 team tournament starting, and the 6x6 comming soon.....

Rounding sounds the most logical.

Thanks all.

lol @ stevie

WE need 3 more players to complete the 6x6 reversi team anuy interesed??? the fellowship its reversi-esp....

If it was rounded, I would say same as Rod, more games = more established, should be number 1 :o)

I need 1 more player to join my 10x10 team for the tourny, any takers?

I feel privaledged that I beat you Kevjon, its a shame it was on GT and not here though :o(

Yes, I don't believe rounded ratings are stored - so the one that's listed as higher would likely be the higher one, even though they round to the same whole number.

I'm pretty sure the rating is carried out to the highest fraction, ie. 2167.4

I would guess it would be the one with MORE games.. That would make it even more established than someone with less games...
just a guess, though..
:-)

i would put in first place to the player with less games played, but i don't know what think Fencer, he is the programmer

If 2 people have the same #1 rating, what is the deciding factor that determines who's #1 and who's #2?

you're getting closer and closer though! and i consider you a strong player.

who me? I dont think I am. (if you mean me Kev) I cant beat you yet!!!

and i thought u said u weren't a strong player!

well right now its just two of us so we may not even get in to the tourney. Looks like all reversi 10x10 players are on teams!

Thats because that fellowship only wants the best and to win ;o)

I got snapped up pretty quick Stevie. I dont think I had the message up more then a few minutes and Ripley snagged me as team captain. Look forward to playing ya tho!

You can join the SCRL one if you like

Any team lookin for a strong 10x10 player for the reversi team tourney let me know. Currently I am not on any 10x10 team

LOLI wont win any of themm either

LOL.. You've got 3 going against me right now.. I'll go move on them.. I've been in the process of trying to catch up on some of my older tournaments that I'm holding up.. :-(

all the more reason for more of us to play you then LOL

i have enough right now! Besides, I'm on a losing streak.. :-(

Any one want a tourny?

It doesnt make a diference to me, but for now, to get it up and running and iron out the bugs, easier this way, fewer players

Steve...why cant pawns get into the ladder web site and play too? hy must the be required to be in the fellowship? It doesn't seem to me like that should really make a difference.

whoa a downward spiral on 10x10 but you will pick it back up.. im managing a slim second on 10x10 but flailing big time on 8x8 in ladders