Vikings: Same could said for many conservative ideas.. They don't work. Eg.. your private health system being so expensive yet in return not offering value for money.

Yet other countries have used 'liberal' ideas for years... and they've worked, and still work. While some polices have failed.. just as with a number of conservative ideas.

Eg.. our recent problem with MP expenses dates back to Maggie Thatcher and her government and the changes they introduced.

As for a full government takeover.. please... that is pure rubbish, Labour (a socialist party) has been in power for years and nothing has happened, many other countries have had liberal/socialist governments and there has been no government takeover. In some respects the conservatives over here have made more 'red tape' when last in power, something certain agencies over here are having to fight and struggle with.

(V): Your last line says it all about liberalism, "You feel" therefore liberalism must be right to do whatever it takes supervening the law if need be.


As far as Bama's great answer to Bushes spending, you seem to forget that deficits began with the "Liberal" great experiment of welfare and social security, both nobal ideas but as most liberal ideas just don't work
Imagine you being in debt lets say 50 thousand dollars, why would you go out and buy a 30 thousand dollar car and a 150 thousand dollar house and and think that you are getting yourself out of debt. Even the best economic liberal minds know that this isn't going to work,It will however turn democracy into a Full government takeover and then revolution (whether peacefull or violent)

Reagan, made California solvent, can't say that about Bama's state of Illinois. oh wait, he didn't run anything like Palin, there goes that argument for you but you will claim that the largest state with the most natural resources is not much to run.

Vikings: I don't see the point of your reply... Arnie is Republican by politics, and with respect, republican/conservatism is not a set ideology. There is no set normality to a party ideology, it is by nature going to be different from person to person. As it does over here within the conservative party as well as other right wing organisations.

As to your current president, He's inherited a huge national debt, got into power at the time of a worldwide depression. And quite frankly I do not see how you can accuse your pres of printing money when Bush has made it that the USA owes other countries so much money.

... Your president now is trying to cut that debt as well as make sure the USA does not fall into an abyss.

Btw.... "Palin a conservative, Reagan a Conservative"

Doesn't say much for conservatism in the USA from what I've seen. Irangate.. and Palin not knowing what she's talking about.

As for gay marriage... quite frankly.. only about 52% voted to ban it.. hardly a clear majority is it. That is why judges do have the right I feel to contest Proposition 8. If the majority was very clear then ok.. but then again.. some of which the ban is based on is based on incorrect interpretation of Biblical scripture.

Vikings: What's the matter with the people there gezzzz aye, aye, aye

heavenlyemma: uhmm, no it's the people of California that won't allow gay marriage, it's the hand full of judges who have exceeded their authority that have allowed it

Vikings: No not really he married a Kennedy but is not a Kennedy, he's just Arnie the muscle man that won't allow gay marriage etc lol

I'm not really into politics but had to say that lol

(V): First of all Arnie may be a republican but he is hardly a conservative, remember that he is a Kennedy.

As far as spending, that is clearly a liberal policy, don't think so, just look at the Bama administration, heck they will just print it if they need to, Did republicans spend too much, yes, republicans did and have let many in their party down, that is conservatives are upset, there is a difference, Bush is a republican, McCain a republican, Palin a conservative, Reagan a Conservative

Artful Dodger: I refer you to my post to Vikings

Vikings: Well now Arnie is running it and has been for a while. A republican.

And as for the policies.... We've had social policies and managed to do all right.. Even repaid the loans to the USA we owed from WWII.

So... it's not so much 'liberalism' but they way they've been doing their books. Bad management is bad management... I mean the USA national debt grew at a crazy rate under Bush.

Gonna blame that on liberalism??

Artful Dodger: Here is one I heard today... in my State, they used 600 million of stimulus money to balance the state budget!!!! REALLY????

On top of tht they passed some new taxes, including now I cant take a tax break for the interest on my two mortgages or the insurance for them, my two biggest tax breaks I have!

We have petitions out now to vote for a veto of this new bill, I think that has a chance to reverse it,but we have a liberal governor and a democrat majority, and they are running us dry!

Artful Dodger:  It's great that you are moving into low key.. hope your docs appointment gives you good  news.. didn't realize you were hurting again.. just know the stress levels will go down big time without all the anger and hate that can catch you from time to time on these dang boards. I rarely join in anymore.

(V):    I'm not sure what that has to do with what I've said.  All states have had their problems from time to time.  But as Vikings pointed out, the liberal policies of California have bankrupt the State.   So goes the US.  The current rate of spending under Obama cannot be sustained.  Make no mistake, Bush made plenty of mistakes with his fiscal irresponsibility.   The whole of the Republican party lost it's way.   Tax and spend will break the US economy.  California did just that.  They are an example of what NOT to do but Obama is following their lead. 

Joe Biden told a group of students that when they grow up they will get a free college education.  Really?  Free?  The colleges are going to allow students to come to their college for free?  Wow, that's sweet.  I had to pay for mine.  Now colleges are offering free tuition. 

What?  Oh, taxes are going to pay for it?  Like my taxes?  So my taxes are going to be used to pay for someone's college education and for all their health costs?  What's next?  

So it's not free then is it?  

This is how California failed.  Give give give but then take take take at the same time.  

Notice how politicans don't say "We're going to take money from those of you who work hard to earn it and give a little to everybody else regardless of their work ethic.  From the lazy to the industrious, all will qualify for "free" college and health care." 

No, they say they're going to offer free health care for everyone.  But it's not really free is it?

And they spend more than they can take in.  I don't know about you but I don't run my home that way.  Which is why I have lots of money saved in the bank and don't live beyond my ability to pay.  On a teacher's salary no less.  But the government is going to take more and more of my money to give it to others (even those who refuse to work).  

Exactly how California went bankrupt.   They can't even honor their tax refunds to those who overpaid!  They've sent out IOU's.  

Maybe I'll send an IOU to the IRS this year.  Yeah.  I'll tell them I'm doing what California did.  ;)

(V): that's the point, exactly, California is a failed experiment in liberalism, it was actually profitable when Reagan ran it, but now social programs, green policies, illegal immigration, socialized medical cost , etc. have bankrupted the state

Artful Dodger: California..... from what I gather it's had problems before balancing it's budget.... has it not?

Czuch:  I wonder how long it will take people who voted for Obama to see through his ideas for what they really are?  More and more jobs are being lost.  We are in debt up to our eyeballs and they are talking about another stimulus package.  Really?

Millions on millions of stimulus money went to building a bridge that hardly anyone uses.  Even the locals were scratching their heads.  And it created 30 jobs.  Jobs that end when the bridge is completed.  Yeah, that will help the economy. 

Millions more went to the study of the manufacture of warm beer.  Yeah, that's an emergency.  Let's take care of that right away. 

congress is now passing bills to comply with the dictates of the EPA.  Excuse me?  the EPA? 

Global warming is a farce. There is no such thing as a carbon footprint.  Idiots.  It's all about power.   More and more scientists are beginning to sing a different song about global warming.  They see that the reality is the trend is not global warming as temp have declined in the past ten years.  It's the cycle folks.

Remember back in the seventies?  The scare was global cooling.  It was an emergency.   Now it's global warming.  A farce.

Think not?   Consider this:  Homeowners will have to retrofit their homes to meet EPA standards.  So when you sell your home, you have to meet certain environmental criterion.  And who is to thank for that?

Obama.

Health care?  It's also a farce.  There's no money to pay for it.  All our taxes will go up and up and up. 

Look at California.  That's where the US is headed. 

And were not the only country facing this kind of stupidity. 

And the beat goes on  ;)

Artful Dodger: I saw her too.... I almost couldnt believe it, really!

And you are right, it was a breath of fresh air to finally see a liberal media type actually do something like that!

Thats all I want, and all any of us should want, for the media to actually just do their job, ask questions and report the news, without bias, and without making the news themselves! Finally!!

Vikings:  True.  That's what someone else said on the news.  The far left blogs are nudging out the liberal press.  And the press is jealous.

Still, it was fun to see Helen Thomas get feisty and bite the hand that feeds here. 

Artful Dodger: It was a good thing but at the wrong question, any knowledgeable person knows that the town hall format is pre-screened, it would have been a better question to ask as to why the press briefings are somewhat staged allowing liberal blogs to used as their puppets and moved toward the front of the line

Vikings:  It's another conspiracy theory.  I've started working on a blog and no, it's not on politics.  It's about teaching art to children.  My plan is to blog about everything I do in the classroom, including lesson plans, step-by-step instructions, and pictures.  Also a web site is in the works.  Art galleries.  That and the work with my band, yard work, grand children (I get asked to babysit a lot in the summer) plus the every growing honey do list, keeps me busy.   And the chest pains are back but it may just be from acid reflux.  I see the cardiologist on the 21st.   

I've had fun modding this board and I think I've even been modded myself once.  But it is the right time for me to move on to other things.  I appreciate all the support I've been given by the globals, and it's been a lot.  I leave on good terms and appreciate being allowed to moderate board (despite the baggage I still carry around a bit).   As I've said to someone else, I'm a reformed twerp.  I know my history.   It says a lot to me that I was allowed to moderate three boards. So for that I say thanks to all the powers that be. 

Ok, my official (off topic) goodbye is done.  The decision was mine.  No one asked me to resign etc.  I leave because it's time to move on and give the reins to another. 

Now, how about that Helen Thomas and how she grilled Obama's press secretary and held his feet to the fire on the White House's town hall meeting procedures?  Whoa!  That gal's got spunk for a old lady.  Anybody else see how she pointed her pen at the press secretary and after he said they'd "talk about this at a later time," she piped back, "No, we'll talk about this now!"   Yeah, and she's a liberal!  That's what the press should be doing, holding the President and  politicans accountable. !!!

Czuch: No news yet, same on all the other cases the IPCC are looking into.

Czuch: you're reading to much into this, he did come to a glob to resign, nothing more nothing less

Artful Dodger: I did nothing wrong. It was time to move on and give the helm to another.


time to move on so that a glob(yeah, you know, the ones who already moderate any board they want to)can become the main moderator????

Something doesnt smell right.....

Tuesday: second degree means that he didn't have it planned out, he just snapped

Vikings:  That's how I see it.  It's irresponsible behavior on both adults.  So sad.  My granddaughter is 2. 

Artful Dodger: They showed the cage on FOX this morning, it appeared to be a 20 gal aquarium with a peg board top with a weight on it, I used to have a 10 foot python and I can tell you that that cage was definitely not sufficient,if he was tied up in a pillowcase which is a common practice to move the snake,he couldn't have gotten out, he needs to be charged with involuntary manslaughter and the mom with child endangerment,

Vikings:  Link fixed. ;)

Artful Dodger: evidently it's a bad link, is the story about the toddler that was strangled by the mom's boyfriends 12 foot python

Python Kills Baby After getting out of its cage

So should the owner be held liable?  Should he go to jail?

Jim Dandy:   I guess I get double.  I thought it was double or nothing and they said no, it's double OF nothing.  I guess that means I owe the pot. 

Czuch:  Are you surprised?  I did nothing wrong.  It was time to move on and give the helm to another.  I'm a reformed twerp.  Just ask.    Be sure to ask the right people though.

Artful Dodger: Do you get to keep your pension?

Artful Dodger: what did you do now????

I have stepped down from my moderating duties here on BK.  It's been fun but time to move on.  All the best to Vikings as the new moderator of the board. 

I've enjoyed the many conversations here and like the back and forth point counterpoints.  I'll still participate were the topic interests me. 

Happy debating  ;)

(V): what about the killer cop?

Czuch: From a quick glance.. still awaiting the trial to finish on the accountant. He faces upto 105 years for his part in the Ponzi scheme.

As for the US depts that checked into his business over the years... no idea.

(V): ... and everyone else then?

Yeaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh Madoff gets 150!!

gogul: ... out of six D's + time, you stick to two??

gogul: are you sure gogul isnt code for dano? If you notice, both words dont have the same amount of letters in them, and neither one uses any of the same letters either (except for the o).... coincidence? I think not

(V): To me, all is about up or down. Look, the whole board is underneath.

Dark Vamp: It ain't about left or right, it's about history, events that have happened.... Sometimes things governments and party's like to forget.

We've even got the leader of the BNP over here denying the holocaust every happened!!

Dark Vamp: What do I owe them?

gogul:  You've lost me. 

Artful Dodger: Its summertime northhalf, it's living up the meadow time.