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<< < 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 > >> 29. 一月 2009, 02:27:02 题目: Re:  Bernice:That was just for starters. The main course is on the way! lol 29. 一月 2009, 01:07:44 题目: Re: Artful Dodger: Whats really funny / strange, is that typically I would expect democrats / liberals to want to hand out money to the poor helpless people personally..... IE give money to people to help them pay their mortgage or their heat or something like that... like you said, people could keep their homes and the banks could get paid back, and home prices would not fall so much due to the huge glut in the market because so many homes were foreclosed on! Also, they spent years telling us how trickle down economics doesnt work, and years complaining about the big bad oil subsidies, and now look at them go!!!! Pouring all this money into the big bad banks and hope it trickles down to the little guy.... have they really lost their minds this time??? Or have they been lost forever anyway??? ( I vote for the second one) Well one good thing has come from this election.... at least we are finally finished listening ad nausea about Bush... I just wish they would stick around longer to get a taste of their own medicine.... but they arent interested in defending their chosen one.... because they just dont know how to do anything but complain! 28. 一月 2009, 23:29:27 题目: Re:  Artful Dodger: pheewwwww ....do you feel better now :)  28. 一月 2009, 23:15:54 题目: Re: Czuch: They think that they are doing a good thing by all the "big brother" is taking care of you nonsense. Spend, create huge committes that will dole out the money (and waste most of it) and then they can say what a good job they are doing for the people. Bush lost sight of the deeper conservative principles when he endorced the bail out packages. The economy doens't need help. It needs the incompetent legislators to keep out of it. Where were those idiots (including Bush) when the banks and investment firms were stealing the people blind? And now the stupid banks are forclosing on people. Duh. Ummmmm how about giving people who can't afford high interest loans lower interest loans so they can actually pay the banks back? Banks still make money and people keep their homes. Now the damage is done. They want to fix the mess we're in (the US is broke) and so what do they do? They give money to the crooks with little or no accountability (and the crooks are asking for more) but they are still kicking people out of their homes, paying their stock holders, and one financial institution tried to purchase a new private jet for 15 million. Yeah, they got severl billion in bailout money. They cancelled the purchase. Hopefully the democrats won't be able to ruin the country entirely until we can get some competent republicans into office. The dems are currently taking us further down the road to sure disaster. And while I'm at it, let's have the new president appoint someone in charge of the economy fix that can't even figure out turbo tax! 28. 一月 2009, 21:23:53 题目: Re: Artful Dodger: The House Democrats' bill includes $335 million for sexually transmitted disease education and prevention programs at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention 335 million dollars in an economic stimulus package for STD education?????? I hope there is a logical liberal around to explain this one to me???? 28. 一月 2009, 17:58:33 题目: Re: Czuch: Scary isn't it? And all this while Pelosi and her fellow democrats accepted a raise.  28. 一月 2009, 13:24:32 题目: Re: Artful Dodger: Dont you see.... more abortions equals fewer babies equals fewer costs.... and I said liberals werent logical?????? 28. 一月 2009, 02:49:47 被Papa Zoom修改(28. 一月 2009, 02:50:24) Nancy Pelosi wants to decrease the surplus population and claims that a stimulus package will help do just that. huh? STEPHANOPOULOS: Hundreds of millions of dollars to expand family planning services. How is that stimulus? PELOSI: Well, the family planning services reduce cost. They reduce cost. The states are in terrible fiscal budget crises now and part of what we do for children's health, education and some of those elements are to help the states meet their financial needs. One of those - one of the initiatives you mentioned, the contraception, will reduce costs to the states and to the federal government. STEPHANOPOULOS: So no apologies for that? PELOSI: No apologies. No. we have to deal with the consequences of the downturn in our economy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFU_jE9WasM 28. 一月 2009, 02:44:46 题目: From CNN's Jack Cafferty: How would you rate Pres. Obama's first week? If you’re going to ban lobbyists from working for you, you have to If you’re going to close Guantanamo, you have to have a plan for You can’t overturn President Bush’s executive order banning abortion And picking a fight with the corpulent Oxycontin aficionado of right But the new President seems to be weathering the storm quite well. 27. 一月 2009, 16:03:03 题目: and this just in: Why do they call it the department of interior when they are in charge of everything outdoors?  27. 一月 2009, 16:00:30 I predict that Obama will only make things worse for the economy of the US (and that will affect the world) and that if it continues through his first 100 days, he'll be defeated in 4 years. There is such corruption in Washington (Barney Frank is a thief) and Obama has some very questionable appointees in his administration. One has to wonder if he'd appoint the fox to guard the hen house simply because "he's the best candidate for the job."  27. 一月 2009, 15:57:27 题目: Re: Czuch: I agree with that. And this: "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain" -- Winston Churchill 27. 一月 2009, 14:10:25 题目: Re: Artful Dodger: Well AD.... sorry to see you scared all the liberals away when I was gone for a few hours. The thing they just wont seem to admit, and the reason they cant hang with the big dogs in any kind of debate, is that liberalism isnt built around logic, its built around "feelings" and "compassion", for which there are no logical end. We can debate to no end, and without ever running away, because our ideals are based in logic instead of emotion, and in the end, that is what will eventually win any debate! 27. 一月 2009, 02:44:36 题目: hey dan obama wants stricker laws on polution so that means if he gets his way then u will have to go have a pollution control and catalitic convertor put on ur  27. 一月 2009, 02:24:01 If pro is the opposite of con, is progress the opposite of congress? 26. 一月 2009, 15:30:09 题目: Re: 被tyyy修改(26. 一月 2009, 15:31:07) Vikings: Murtha is just one of many congressmen in PA,, Don't send them here.. thanks anyways.PA had its share of mariel boat criminals back when Carter let Fidel empty his jails! Gerlach is my rep.. he doesn't want them back!!! 26. 一月 2009, 14:37:51 题目: for BBW.. Just reading back a bit further...... I guess you might not be reading here anymore.... but when the UN gave Saddam another final resolution and backed it with the words "serious consequences", maybe you can remember, what it was the UN had in mind? To me, the UN had technically backed the force able removal of saddam for breach of his UN agreements, but th ey just hand wrangled over it for so long... its like the child ready to jump into the water, and they stand there for so long, it takes a slight nudge to get them to actually plunge in! We realize that this was a far more complicated issue than simply Saddam breached another UN agreement, and the serious consequences that followed..... the US was glad to see him breach the UN agreement, and there were a multitude of other reasons besides the UN breaches that the US had for wanting to get Saddam out..... Anyway, to me, it is a far more complicated and complex situation than some in here make it out to be... its not clear cut on either side.... but just the fact that the Un had agreed to serious consequences for one last failure to comply, gives their technical "backing" of the US and coalition efforts to remove saddam. 26. 一月 2009, 13:44:48 题目: Re: Even Though BBW won't respond, the idea that Bush lied is a radical left propaganda ploy Pedro Martínez: I see, we agree, except that they were not reclassified before their capture? One of the naked realities here is that the only reason they were actually captured instead of killed on the battle field is because of the intelligence we could gain from interrogating them.... take that option away, and given the send them all to court option, it is very likely that we will find far fewer prisoners of this type ever anymore! The battlefield tactics will become far less forgiving.... 26. 一月 2009, 06:21:23 题目: Re: Vikings: I want to see that too. lol Washington is so full of corruption. We need to fire them all and start all over. Only a handful in Washington have any ethics at all it seems. 26. 一月 2009, 06:13:50 题目: Re: Artful Dodger: nah, I want to see pelosi and that ceo from meril lynch explain to congress their expenditures, I would love to see her face the American people and explain the reason for choosing the private use of a jumbo jet weekly to cross the country 26. 一月 2009, 06:04:35 题目: Re: Vikings: Half to Murtha, the other half to Pelosi. 26. 一月 2009, 06:03:14 题目: Re: Bernice: As I understand it, their own countries don't want them back. 26. 一月 2009, 06:00:56 题目: I wonder how long, once Gitmo is close, it will take for the international community to demand the base be returned to Cuba. Here is the wording of the agreement signed by Batista in 1934. The agreement states: "Until the two Contracting Parties agree to the modification or abrogation of the stipulations of the agreement in regard to the lease to the United States of America of lands in Cuba for coaling and naval stations… the stipulations of that Agreement with regard to the naval station of Guantánamo shall continue in effect." 26. 一月 2009, 05:59:38 题目: Re: Artful Dodger: I say send them to Murtha's state, he wanted them, the people can't say anything since they voted for them, so they should be happy to have those terrorist in their back yard 26. 一月 2009, 05:48:58 题目: Re: FYI tidbit Artful Dodger: well, if they are inno cent they shouldn't have anything to worry about.....just send them home. 26. 一月 2009, 05:46:34 题目: Re: Artful Dodger: release them back to their own countries and let them look after their own....death for those types isn't the answer, as it would only make the bad buggers worse. 26. 一月 2009, 05:43:52 题目: FYI tidbit 26. 一月 2009, 05:42:23 26. 一月 2009, 05:29:28 题目: Re: Pedro Martínez: Glen Beck (a talking head) suggests after Gitmo is closed that we send all the detainees to Alcatraz. Or maybe to Rep Murtha's district. He said he'd welcome them in his district. Currently there is no plan on what to do with detainees once Gitmo is closed. Right now they are suggesting that the real torture of Gitmo inmates will start once they enter the US judical system. (meaning that the system itself can be a form of torture) I predict that placement and plans regarding the imates and closing of Gitmo will become a political football. 26. 一月 2009, 03:24:41 题目: Re:  Czuch: Of course, it is your right to challenge the correctness of the classification. I don't see any problem in that. If you do so, it's the State's job to prove that the classification is OK. I actually disagree that we have to agree that we disagree on the necessity of a new classification. We do agree on that! My point is that the new classification cannot be applied to people captured and detained before the adoption of such new classification. 26. 一月 2009, 03:18:01 题目: Re: Pedro Martínez: Yes. The fundamental principles of legal certainty and prohibition of retroactivity is something I am not willing to give up on. If I was a lawyer, and you had me classified as POW, I would argue that you had me classified wrongly, and argue for their release.... if you had me classified as a "common criminal" I would argue against thatas well, for their release!! Its really a no win situation... except if they dont get a lawyer as POW.... but like you said, then they cant torture them!!!! ;) I guess we basically have to agree that what we disagree on if it is okay to make a new classification or not.... we are arguing yes, you say no, simple as that. 26. 一月 2009, 03:13:48 题目: Re: Even Though BBW won't respond, the idea that Bush lied is a radical left propaganda ploy Artful Dodger, Vikings: Good point. It would solve the problem indeed, but only temporarily (for reasons defined in the Third Geneva Convention) and they would have had to be given the POW status immediately after being captured. They can't be made POWs now, as they have already been interrogated. In my opinion, the best way out of this problem is to pass a constitutional-level law that would deal with these "enemy combatants". 26. 一月 2009, 03:07:01 题目: Re: Vikings:I wonder how they'd address the "war is over" part of POW status. Seems to me that as long as there are terrorists organizations, the war is on. So you're probably correct that the war on terror will never officially end. 26. 一月 2009, 03:03:24 maybe we should just consider them pow's then we wouldn't have to worry about trying them and then we would return them to their home country when the war is over( I mean when they are dead since the war on terror will go on forever) 26. 一月 2009, 03:02:06 题目: Re: Even Though BBW won't respond, the idea that Bush lied is a radical left propaganda ploy Pedro Martínez:Wouldn't it just solve the problem if they put their status as POWs? 26. 一月 2009, 03:00:36 题目: Re: Even Though BBW won't respond, the idea that Bush lied is a radical left propaganda ploy Artful Dodger: Agreed. I hope Obama will understand the crucial importance of the matter and make some decisions. It is a new territory, no doubt, and we're now at least 6 years behind in passing the laws we need to deal with it. 26. 一月 2009, 02:55:48 题目: Re: Even Though BBW won't respond, the idea that Bush lied is a radical left propaganda ploy Pedro Martínez: Well, that all makes sense and I have to admit I'm not fully knowledgeable on the laws. These guys are military combatants. Their status will likely change with Obama in charge. This is clearly new territory in as far as it's a new kind of enemy. It's a new kind of battlefield and a new kind of war. I know that if it came down to my family's safety and the "rights" of some guy captured on a battlefield, I'll sleep better knowing he's locked up and my family is safe. 26. 一月 2009, 02:52:12 题目: Re: Czuch: Is your world really so static that you dont think it is okay to ever have anyone who doesnt fit into the traditional categories or either POW or normal civilian trial material??? Yes. The fundamental principles of legal certainty and prohibition of retroactivity is something I am not willing to give up on. 26. 一月 2009, 02:48:23 题目: Re: Even Though BBW won't respond, the idea that Bush lied is a radical left propaganda ploy Artful Dodger: It is important to differentiate between military combatants and criminals. In the case of the former, you are right that the fact that they were caught on the battlefield fighting against "our" forces is sufficient to detain them and keep them at some place until the war ends. However, they must not be interrogated (let alone tortured) and they have to be returned back to their homes after the war is over. This is why the US decided not to grant the people detained in Cuba the POW status. But when they did that, they would automatically have to treat them as criminals and now you really would need more evidence (like video tapes with them committing a terrorist act, documents, confession, etc.). And that's what the US didn't want to do either, for obvious reasons. But, it is illegal not to grant the POW status and to deprive a person from the rights stated in the Declaration at the same time. Some presidential order cannot abrogate Geneva Treaties and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. 26. 一月 2009, 02:45:13 题目: Re: Even Though BBW won't respond, the idea that Bush lied is a radical left propaganda ploy Vikings: Not since the sixties  26. 一月 2009, 02:44:59 题目: Re: Even Though BBW won't respond, the idea that Bush lied is a radical left propaganda ploy Pedro Martínez: Now they're floating in the middle of nowhere, as nobody knows what their legal status is. That is true, they are somewhere that has never existed before, terrorists showing up on a battlefield in a conflict they have nothing to do with.... any blame should be on them for any problems they encounter.... dont blame the US for having to come up with a new way to deal with these idiots! I mean, should we expect that these terrorists should be saying to each other, hey, dont worry, we can do what we want, if we get captured, they will have to take us into court and prove we did something wrong.... we will be threaded like kings for a few months, then released on no evidence... 26. 一月 2009, 02:44:16 题目: Re: Even Though BBW won't respond, the idea that Bush lied is a radical left propaganda ploy Artful Dodger: what, you don't picnic with bombs strapped to your belt and a bazooka slung over your shoulder in the middle of a war zone? 26. 一月 2009, 02:40:13 题目: Re: Even Though BBW won't respond, the idea that Bush lied is a radical left propaganda ploy Czuch:It will be interesting to see how Obama plays that part out. I can't imagine the Republicans going for civil trials with all the evidence requirements. These guys didn't get captured when they were out on an afternoon picnic. 26. 一月 2009, 02:38:04 题目: Re: Even Though BBW won't respond, the idea that Bush lied is a radical left propaganda ploy Artful Dodger: Right, the point that seems to allude pedro in this case is that most of these GITMO cases these guys would get away in a court of law... mostly because there is a huge burden on the prosecution... you need witnesses and DNA evidence and blah blah blah.... and you just dont have that luxury to collect evidence when you are capturing people on the battlefield. In a US court of law these guys would walk away innocent! 26. 一月 2009, 02:31:58 Pedro Martínez: I have just sort of read 85 new posts, and i want to give a quick point of view... First, there is a middle ground between a POW and an American civilian criminal destined for a normal trial afforded to American citizens. Also, given the battle field circumstances, there is hardly the time and resources to give a thorough criminal investigation for every person detained on the battlefield. It makes no sense to believe that in a traditional court of law you could actually convict anyone held in GTMO based on current rules of law in the US. But they are also not traditional POWs, since they are not fighting under any countries army.... these are individual terrorists, placing themselves on a battlefield in a conflict they have no interest in, except in their terrorists activities. Is your world really so static that you dont think it is okay to ever have anyone who doesnt fit into the traditional categories or either POW or normal civilian trial material??? 26. 一月 2009, 02:29:02 题目: Re: Even Though BBW won't respond, the idea that Bush lied is a radical left propaganda ploy Pedro Martínez: It's not the question that is difficult. What I'm getting at is the type of evidence that would be available to take to court. Unless I witnessed a terrorist act and saw who did it etc, all evidence will be circumstantial. What I'm asking you to do is to name the kind of evidence you would expect the US to find. I know they have evidence gathered on the more well known terrorists, but some of those guys are relatively unknown. But they were captured on the battlefield. Seems to me, that fact alone is evidence. But it seems you'd expect much more. Like what? 26. 一月 2009, 02:20:26 题目: Re: Even Though BBW won't respond, the idea that Bush lied is a radical left propaganda ploy Artful Dodger: What then? What can you do with me if you have no evidence? Is that really such a difficult question to answer? However, I believe there actually IS enough evidence to convict most of the guys down there in Guantánamo. The problem is that they should have been given the POW status or treated as "normal" terrorists, i.e. people commiting a crime. Everything would have been much easier. Now they're floating in the middle of nowhere, as nobody knows what their legal status is. 26. 一月 2009, 02:12:47 题目: Re: Even Though BBW won't respond, the idea that Bush lied is a radical left propaganda ploy Pedro Martínez: If I catch you on the battlefield in afganistan and detain you, what evidence could I possibly have against you and what could you be guilty of? And in some cases, evidence can't be released because of national security. What then? 26. 一月 2009, 02:09:00 题目: Re: Even Though BBW won't respond, the idea that Bush lied is a radical left propaganda ploy Vikings: 5-15, 10-15 or 25 years if you were proven guilty, of course. In a fair trial. << < 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 > >> |
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