Czuch: and my point is that the US government did not have to use such an elaborate scheme to promote the fear and anger they needed to help implement more of their imperialistic urges...

really, just blow up one WTC, and blame some terror group from the middle east, that would have accomplished the same results, without near the risk of being caught at it as what they supposedly got away with

Hey, I have a plan..... we dont like dealing with the idiots in Iran.... lets send a nuke into the heartland of the US, kill millions of people, then show some fake evidence that iran did it!!! Yeah, yeah, thats the ticket.... then we can blow the living crap out of Iran, and have the blessing of the whole world behind us, maybe even get someone else to do it for us! Brilliant!!

Czuch:


Check this out:

Artful Dodger: GW is not the only one rolling over in his grave.... millions of our vets are too

Czuch:Totally.  I like the sheep touch in the photo.  A fitting statement. 

Artful Dodger: Sheeple.... (and no Tuesday its not anything to do with females)

Czuch:

(V): You're doing yeoman service while I sleep. Just got up to peek.

A good book on Dresden is Vonnegut's "Slaughterhouse Five." He was there, a prisoner of war. We also firebombed cities in Japan before dropping the big ones.

"Remember, remember, the 11th of September...."

Czuch: One word on why the buildings had to come down: "Shock and Awe"

This phrase, incidentally, comes from the Romans.

The Usurper:lazy, it's the afternoon  (I'm still in my PJ's tho)  ;)

The Usurper:To create terror?

Artful Dodger: Gotta catch a snooze while you can. :o)

It's snowing cats & dogs here! Whoopedoo! (rare in GA)

Yes....to create terror.

Also consider that the perpetrators (if the U.S. Government) were in charge of the crime scene & the investigation, not to mention they control the corporate media. And small-scale false-flag operations had already been tried & tested & proven doable. 9/11, then, would be the biggie, the one they'd been aiming for, to bring about their major objectives. In this scenario, the main reason they thought they wouldn't get caught would have to be....Hubris.

(I'm writing to Art here but also trying to answer some of Czuch's objections)

Czuch: Fear and terror like certain leaders have used before can give them the right to get away with murder.

Terrorism has been with us for years, some independent, some supported by certain governments in order for them to enjoy playing their stupid power games.

If 911 was not Osma Bin Laden (as the FBI now seem to be saying) then who?

The Usurper: Mmmmm so many rumours over the A bomb drops on Japan. Some say it was to end the war quickly, some say it was to see the actual consequences of the use of such devices for future reference, some say it was to frighten the Russians.

(V): It might have been "all of the above." Like the firebombing of civilian targets, it was unconscionable, whatever the strategic purpose(s).

The Usurper: Aye.. we moaned about the bombing of London, etc.. then did the same to the axis countries.

(V): It is possible that governments in general develop psychopathic tendencies of self-preservation, and become ruthless predators to accomplish this. They become beasts apart from the people they rule or ostensibly represent. We know that it is often people who seek power, who rise to the top of the political-economic chain. And those are the worst kinds of people to be in charge. That is why Plato said it would take a Philosopher-King (a man who didn't want the job) to establish a truly just society. He also said democracies inevitably devolve into oligarchies, then tyrannies. Looks like he may have been right.

The Usurper: Aye.. I've heard similar. In the end it's best not to elect a man in charge of the country who wants to be in charge, but someone fit for the job instead.

How many western leaders have we had that have proven to be less then honest... and how many leaders world wide have to proven to fall short of the mark.

Most.

Especially since the advent of TV has democracy gone down hill, with budgets spent on campaigns now being more important then capability.

(V):That's old news.  Who cares.  Not even funny as he's out of office now.  Mines funnier.

Artful Dodger: Ahhh but I was bringing some balance.... Seeing as alot of cartoons regarding your current Pres are being put on this board.

Are they really needed?

Except that cartoons like this one are on topic.  

The Usurper: I appreciate your comments, but can't agree with the reasons for your conclusions.
as I can't agree with your babbling on and on and onnnnnnn about this thing......my GAWD already....

anastasia:He's passionate about it.    Some of the things brought up does make one think.  I'm afraid that some of those in the conspiracy camp hurt their own cause by their telling as opposed to simply putting stones in our shoes.  I prefer the latter.

Bernice:Hey I found some political cartoons from Australia but can't understand them all.  I think you have be be an Aussi to get them.  Wanna see a few?

Artful Dodger: passionate yes,some things that make ya go hmmm,sure..but to convince me that this whole 9-11 thing is one big consperacy is just not gonna fly with me...it was a tragic historic event and alot of lives were lost and all changed forever.. some sick people attacked the USA on 9-11,NOT our government

anastasia:  That's always been my view too.

Artful Dodger: yes please to the aussie cartoons....I will explain if I can ROFL..........

Bernice:They are cartoons by Aussies but not necessarily about Australia.  Maybe you can help. 

adios

This one is related to the above

another

and

Artful Dodger: the first 2 are to do with TELSTRA boss....he is an american that was bought over here to get telstra up and running....it is only about 3-4 years and has made for himself (trying to remember) 1st year 15 mil, 2nd year, 12mil, and so on and so on. Is leaving with a farewell bonus of 3mil.

Now Im not sure on the exact figures as I cant spell his surname to check it up....His christian name is Sol .......??

Artful Dodger: the third one is to do with Bonds underwear, it has been sold out from under our butts ROFLMBO

Bernice:As in he took the money and ran?

Artful Dodger: the last one can only be guessed at, and your guess is as good as mine.

Mr Rudd is throwing so much money around to the needy/greedy is it any wonder we are going down. Personally it doesnt affect me because Im debt free. The only way it affects me is my interest rates go down on investments, but apart from that I could care less what happens.

Artful Dodger: yep as he took the money and ran LOLOL

Bernice:I just found out that my credit union, who has been giving legitimate loans and has a healthy reserve of money, is in an insurance co-op as a result of other financial institutions and their bad loand, my bank is charged (hundreds of thousands) to help with the costs.  It's the way things are.  But it's sad that a responsible lending institution has to suffer because others gave bad loans and are now in trouble. 

anastasia: I agree it was a great tragedy. 3,000 people died that day. Since then, many more have died, and thousands more are sick, who worked on the Ground Zero clean-up. But add to this, 5,000+ American soldiers have died now based on what happened on 9/11. More are dying. But we've barely touched the tip of the iceberg. 6 or 7 hundred thousand Iraqis have died. Millions more are displaced and/or homeless. This is not to mention Afghanistan, nor to mention the money we've thrown into this effort, helping to sink our economy. Nor to mention the destruction of YOUR civil liberties with the passage of the Patriot Act & the Military Commissions Act.

You may prefer that I change the subject, and that is your right. But as I see it, I owe it to the victims of 9/11, to those who have died in its wake, to my countrymen, to my children & grandchildren to come, to my deceased father & ancestors, and to myself, to expose the truth about 9/11, as I see it. I would also suggest that your relatively blind acceptance of the official account is naive, although it is understandable.

This is OUR time. It is OUR world. We must answer to generations to come for what we do now, and don't do. Liberty is always under attack, in one form or another. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. While we are on this earth we have a job to do...afterwards we can hang it up & collect our wings or whatever. But while we are here, duty comes before pleasure & sometimes the case is such that doing one's duty leaves little or no room for pleasure. And THAT is why I continue to post as I do. Whether you agree with my position or not, I hope you'll be sympathetic to my intention.

Charles Martel:The world has gone mad.  Another call for yet another bailout. 

The Usurper:Buts its not your duty to continually, yes and repeatedly, even redundant, redundant ,redundant try to ram it down our throats, or subtly insult as calling us naive, and be condescending as saying its understandable.

Charles Martel: You're one of the last people to define to me my duty. Yes you are naive, and yes it is understandable. A spade is a spade. I find your posts relatively meaningless also, so we're even.

now, now boys.....play nice :)

Bernice:

The Usurper: I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, and I didn't say your posts were meaningless..just that maybe you should find a better forum to rant your drivel

"Mullen: Iran has fissile materials for bomb"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090302/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/mullen_iran

Setting you up for the kill. Leading you like lambs to the slaughter. That is the attempt. Who will believe these people? Not I.

Charles Martel: Thanks for your well-meaning advice. I didn't realize how disinterested & benevolent it really was.