Tuesday:

but don't think government should be telling everyone what to do.


When we talk about higher taxes, or public education, or welfare, or regulations, universal health care, or any of a host of other liberal ideas and agendas, you ARE talking about the government telling people what to do!!!

When you vote for democrats, in general, you ARE voting for the government to tell you what to do, and for the government to have more control over your life!

This is one reason I say you ARE a closet conservative, because you seem to want a lot of what conservatives want, yet you vote exactly the opposite way to get er done?!?!

Again, I think there is a huge misconception, perpetrated by the LIBERAL MEDIA, and HOLLYWOOD TYPES IE Michael Moore, all left over hippie idealists, who have so many duped into thinking that conservatives are some big bad evil mean thing?

Thats why I say take a listen for 2 weeks to this Boortz guy, you will find yourself agreeing with just about everything he says, and he will tell you that democrats and liberalism are NOT the answer to your queries!

anastasia:

you keep wanting to "lump" everyone...liberal OR conservative...I am really niether..

Unfortunately, what you are stuck with is basically a 2 party system.... I dont find myself falling into step with everything conservative and with nothing liberal. But we have to vote with the side that takes us in the best overall direction we are looking for..... my opinion, if you crave less government and more personal responsibility, its clear that the republicans will give that to you better than democrats will!

Tuesday: glad everything made sense,I read it twice before posting,lol....no cold,I blew my knee out again last Monday and have been back on pain meds,crutches and have it braced again

Czuch: a Republican Pres has never "told us what to do" while sitting in office? I have MORE veiws that aline with Dem,thats why I vote Dem...PERIOD.IF I had more views that alined with Rep...then I would vote Rep...but I don't.

Tuesday:

Life would be a mess without goevernment.


I completely disagree with this assumption.... to me, the more government, the bigger the mess!

Czuch: I think we need government..I just think the people should have a more active roll in what it does...like their payraises...we should have a say in if that happens or not....the bank bail out..what about OUR voice being heard of if the government should have done it or not..prayer in schools,taxes...checks and balances sure,within the system they have it,let US be heard too tho....they govern to us what THEY think is right but never actually see what the people feel about it.
LOVE the ones that sit there on their moral high horses and then it comes out they had a gay affair,LMAO...those are the best.

Tuesday:

Do you think homeless people got that way on purpose.


Who duped you into believing that the federal government is the only/best solution to our problems?

The federal government is a huge beaurocratic mess, they cant do anything without triple copies in duplicate, you always hear stories of how they paid $1000 dollars for a hex nut or whatever, they cant even pay their own bills etc etc....


I am not saying just let everyone fend for themselves, or to not care for homeless and other disadvantaged.... but you make it sound like if the Federal Government doesnt take care of us that nobody can/will????

There is a private sector way to help take care of us!!!!! The private sector is WAY more efficient than the federal government ever was or will be! How can you sit here and complain about the government so much....".they govern to us what THEY think is right but never actually see what the people feel about it."..... yet your solution for everything is more government?!?!?!?!?!


We CAN take care of people in need, and we CAN do all the things you want in life WITHOUT the involvement in the Federal Government!

Private companies, local communities, churches etc, all would do a far better job at helping this society than the federal government can ever do!

Like I said before.... you have been duped by liberal media etc into believing that conservatives/republicans dont want all the same things that you want, that we are mean and uncaring blah blah blah.... but in reality what the difference is, is that you have been duped into thinking that it is the federal government or nothing, and the reality is that there are many other solutions other than relying on the federal government to do everything for us!

Czuch: The federal government is a huge beaurocratic mess, they cant do anything without triple copies in duplicate, you always hear stories of how they paid $1000 dollars for a hex nut or whatever, they cant even pay their own bills etc etc....
Have you NEVER seen "Independance Day" ??? thats how they fund area 51.....sheesh

Tuesday: I am currently visiting in Florida and there are "homeless" on every highway exit ramp and street corner with their sigs begging for money...

there was a news report here that most of them make between 40 to 80 THOUSAND DOLLARS per year!!!! They also showed one girl with her "daughter" on hidden camera getting done with her begging, and then going around the block and dropping the kid off at her real family, and then herself going back to her home!


The private sector wants to scream at the homeless man begging for food to get a job.

You are part of the private sector, and that is not you is it???

I guess we have finally found our common differences..... you think the federal government is better equipped to take care of us than the private sector, and I couldnt disagree more!

Czuch: there was a news report here that most of them make between 40 to 80 THOUSAND DOLLARS per year!!!!
I am SERIUOSLY thinking that that would be a VERY small percent that are like that???
you have idiots in every walk of life...EVERY walk of life

I think you are both wrong.... I think it is the MAJORITY of the visible so called "homeless" that you see at the highway intersection are frauds!

The really desperate homeless, the ones who truely need our help, are not the visible ones on the intersection.

But the fact that they can make so much (frauds or not frauds) testifies to how generous the private sector is and can be, just the opposite of what you say the private sector is?

What is so historic about it anyway???

Only thing I can think of that is historic is that it is the first black person, right?

How are we to become a so called color blind society when we celebrate something based strictly on race?

Tuesday:

I am one of those peole too... i would never give a dime to one of those "highway homeless".... if they can spend 10 hours a day begging for cash, they surly can do something more productive to society, right?

I will however give my money to my local community (church or other private) to help those that are truly in need!


So the local churches helps all their members, and then for the atheists you have other local private sector help, then... and only then... does the government come in and help the rest that falls through the cracks... government last resort, not first resort!

You hear libarals yelling about act locally, think globally.... well i agree... but when the feds take my money to help people, it is not specific to helping someone in my local community, but if I am left with that money to help out my local community, and everyone is left to help out their own communities, we wouldnt need the feds to do much for us at all!

Tuesday:

WEll your ancestors were never sold and split from family, hung from a tree and casterated, told to drink from another fountain, denied the right to vote.

thats probably true, but how do we hang on and move on at the same time?

Okay, so we have a black president, is that it then???? Is that the pinnacle that says to the world that we have finally moved on???

Can we celebrate this historic landmark and finally move on?

Czuch: I think it is the MAJORITY of the visible so called "homeless" that you see at the highway intersection are frauds!
PROOF Chuck...give us some PROOF...NOT your opionions on this..where is your PROOF to back up this argument????

Tuesday:

These news stories didnt take months looking around for a fraud,,, they went to one major intersection and followed the people there, and they found what they make and they followed them to their homes and watched them drop of kids to their families.... it was either a stroke of huge coincidence, or it was an indication of the fraud that goes on is deeper than you believe!


There are many homeless shelters and other community resources available to the truly homeless, and I dont think if you show up at one of them, they are going to send you out to the highway intersection to beg for money! The reason they are on the intersection and not at the local community help center is because they are NOT really home less!!! They make more money than you and I together by dressing dirty and holding a sign on the corner, tax free too! Give me someone with that much ambition, I will put them to work doing something that is productive for society and helps with the tax burden!

Tuesday: These people fight over the good intersections and they are there all the time, if it was just some guy who couldnt get into the shelter today or this week or whatever, then they were gone later.... but they are not, they are mostly scammers who are making tons of money, they have no desire to be stuck in some homeless shelter eating soup, they have it made out on the streets, and they have physical fights with other scammers to protect their hot corners!!!

lol... I just heard some black leader on meet the press and he said that yes this is a historic election etc... but that this is only a small down payment!!!

The black leaders have no interest in moving on and getting past race related issues, they have more vested in keeping racism alive, and they are the biggest racists themselves!

Czuch: they are mostly scammers...
proof chuck...PROOF...back up your statements with hard facts

Czuch: The black leaders have no interest in moving on and getting past race related issues, they have more vested in keeping racism alive, and they are the biggest racists themselves!
oh goodness...I agree with you...oiy!

anastasia:

proof chuck...PROOF...back up your statements with hard facts

Okay, no facts, but proof enough for me, unless you happen to believe in coincidence, which I really dont... but you see them fighting over their "territory" on the good traffic corners... doesnt sound like a poor homeless person just trying to get by until the local shelter can get him a bed and some soup!

Czuch: ahhhhh,I see,but when it was ME that didnt give YOU and AD the "proof" that was good enough in YOUR opinions,you ripped me to shreds.....you needed PROOF or I was...let's see...uninformed.....not able to "debate" merley discuss in "casual conversation" NOT on a debate board.....why do YOU have to produce no proof and yet you and AD demand it from everyone else?? Proof enough for YOU.....maybe,but not for ME......you go saying the homeless aren't REALLY needing any help,then back it up!

Artful Dodger: My brother and his wife (she is dead now of cancer) but thye lived with my mum....she worked and supported the entire household,herself,my brother (who is 8 years older then myself) his wife and one,sometimes 2 of her daughters.....I asked him once if either of them had found jobs yet.....he said no,nothing paid good enough....I really didn't and DON'T understand that way of thinking.....$8.00 per hour vs. $0.00 per hour...so instead of both of them going out to find jobs,they sat there letting my mum and welfare carry their weight while both were VERY capible at the time to get a job.In cases like that,the government should DEMAND someone to get a job,or no benifits.
I had left my first husband WAS working but had no medical insurance....I wet to the state for some help...sure,they said,we can help you,BUT we HAVE to give you cash assistance,food stamps and the medical coverage......hmmm,I didn't NEED all 3,JUST medical help...if I didn't take all 3,I got nothing....simple changes like that to our system,I wonder how many millions a year,mayb billions?? it could save our country.
How about people that have 4 and 5 kids and are on welfare..whats wrong with DEMANDING they use birth control? after all,state coverage WOULD provide for it.WHY reward people that keep having kids but sit on their butts all day and do nothing but collect off wlefare that WE pay into...I dunno

Artful Dodger: I don't believe I ever called Bush a war criminal

Artful Dodger: but Clinton was impeached for the whole Monica thing?? that was such non-sense too....If Bush isn't worried then he should say investigate away...have at it,have fun!!

Artful Dodger: hmmm,THAT is not such a bad idea,the license thing,lol...
Ya know...ya hear people..and I have said it myself,I will admit it...when ya hear of these people on wlefare,addicted to drugs that just keep having baby after baby,and the system keeps supporting them.....people will say...well,they should be fixed so that can't have anymore kids.....I will put MONEY on a bet that almost everyone that reads this board has either said OR knows someone with that opinion.......A local judge here in the city I live,oh,maybe 10 years ago now,sentanced a woman to just that,she had,I think it was her 8th or 9th kid and she was addicted to crack...ALL,not one or two,but ALL her babies were born addicted and where now suffering health problems,all in foster care...the judge said,thats it...your being sterilized,jail,and then rehab.....OMG the people went CRAZY,he CAN'T take away her right to have another baby if thats what SHE wants....well,what about those poor kids born addicted to crack...I absolutly think they SHOULD be made to be sterilzed....even if it is just something like an implanted birth control....SOMETHING! anywho...thats just my 2 cents,for what its worth.

Artful Dodger: yeah,because Bush has never told a lie in his life...he's awesome,truly da man!!

Artful Dodger: re: "We as a society want to protects our personal lives so much that we are willing to allow for bad things to happen, to protect individual lives"

but is life worth living in a cage?

Artful Dodger: and look at these young girls having babies.....when I was in high school (I am 36 now) I was in....8th grade..one of my friends was pregnant with her first,another girl in my class pregnant with her SECOND and a girl that was an underclassman got pregnant at the age of 12 and delivered the baby right after she turned 13...
I heard stories...back from the 60's ???? where if a teen got pregnant they sent her away to have the baby...maybe that was not such a bad thing,why shouldn't a 12 year old have some shame in getting pregnant...and the parents should REALLY have some shame.Everyone blew a head gasket when that Jamie Lynn Spears got pregnant,but come on now,really,lol...look how accepting our society is now of under age girls having kids and kids being born out of wedlock....is it THAT big a surprise she got pregnant?? she is a celeb,thats why EVERYONE knew about it

Artful Dodger: yeah,but I don't really thnk it matters WHO is president....we will be attacked again

Artful Dodger: hmmm,they should get a goldfish....10 bucks says the thing would be dead in a week from the girls neglecting it.....and make the relationship with the boyfriend stronger...ROTFLMAO! alot of marriages with ADULTS don't survive a baby...oiy! right then,they need to have an implant of birth control.....no wonder I only have dogs!!

Artful Dodger: once you begin to alter your lifestyle due to fear, the terrorists will have won.