GoodTimeCharlie: Use your mind, it being yours, learn how to trust your instincts and intuition and be yourself.

Same way people escaped all the other 'dictatorships' (whether government or religion based) through out the years.

.... And when you can.. pass it on.

(V): I was being facetious, thanks anyways, I wasn't even close to being serious about those questions
I certainly don't need people trying to pump ideas or "enlighten me" , even though you may think so.
A.D., maybe renaming this The propaganda or special agenda board would be a better fit

GoodTimeCharlie: I can't enlighten you Charles.. it don't work that way.

And yes.. I think we do need a board for propaganda... I think you'll be amazed at how much we are pumped at with every day.

And are you saying you'd be happy with a Big Brother society?

(V): Maybe I am one of "their" agents and have been assigned here to counter you and the usurper

GoodTimeCharlie: oooOOooo A secret agent!! I better implement the dead man protocol on all the 'evidence' I have hidden on the web.

GoodTimeCharlie: "Maybe I am one of "their" agents and have been assigned here to counter you and the usurper"

You're doing remarkably well. You deserve a promotion. :o)

(V): And are you saying you'd be happy with a Big Brother society?

Apparently you are...

What do you think socialism is anyway? You are so proud of your government health care and your government schools and your government everything, but you claim disdain for a big brother society????

Czuch: You perhaps I suggest strongly, have got what Big Brother means confused. Your Homeland security is Big Brother, some of our new laws on terror are 'Big brother', not socialism.. as pure socialism (not the fake USSR crap) ... is to benefit the people. Not just the few at the top like in the old Russia. Stalin basically saw to that.

And IMHO.... wasn't your revolution against the British Empire and your constitution socialist?? ...... "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. "

And Lincoln goes onto say... " that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

(V): as they bought and sold slaves and plotted to take Indian land,Mexican land and Spanish colonies

GoodTimeCharlie: Yep. Problem with good intentions.. one factor... man and his perception, or lack of it.

(V): You perhaps I suggest strongly, have got what Big Brother means confused.


Any control a government has on you is a form of big brother.... if it is giving you health care or welfare or any other, is all a form of big brother.....

also, I dont interpret "for the people" to mean that it is a government that does everything for the people, but simply it is there at the pleasure of the people to mean it is not there for its own benefit, and to me, that also means it should be as small in unobtrusive as possible, and that is the exact opposite of the socialist model that you support.

Czuch: No. It isn't.

And Czuch... a real working model of socialism as worked out in the USSR by those who could... but rejected by the 'bosses' would lead to less government and less power for the government. The local community would be in more charge as they being the local people would be able to better work out their needs.

... But, alas. The consequences for the soviet bosses is that most would not be needed, so the idea was thrown away.

No, can you know see the difference between real socialism and a fake socialism, and basing your views on a false socialist model then is like feeding false data to a computer and asking it to work out an accurate answer based on that false data.. It don't work.

(V): can you know see the difference between real socialism and a fake socialism,

So what you have in the UK, that is the fake socialism?

The local community would be in more charge as they being the local people would be able to better work out their needs

That doesnt sound like any UK socialism, or really socialism anywhere in the world right now.

Czuch: ...... So you get it now. And I think it does sound like some systems in place today in the western world. IE as in the USA your local state and county governments, and in the UK our local councils, who are given the ability to raise money from locals and get some dosh from the Government to use as they feel fit to meet the needs of the people living in their area.

It's not true socialism, but it's closer then the old USSR model.

GoodTimeCharlie:  There does seem to be a lot of propaganda being thrown around lol

GoodTimeCharlie: "I was being facetious, thanks anyways, I wasn't even close to being serious about those questions
I certainly don't need people trying to pump ideas or "enlighten me" , even though you may think so.
A.D., maybe renaming this The propaganda or special agenda board would be a better fit"

That's a good point. Maybe you better stick to the nightly news, where you are more likely to receive fair & balanced coverage. It's the enlightened thing to do. Or maybe you have an even better source? God forbid you be propagandized. But it's good to know there is not much risk of that happening with you.....you are so above that. lol

The Usurper:  I agree with GoodTimeCharlie on the name change.  Just because you can google it and get a thousand hits doesn't make it true.  And just because it appears on the nightly news doesn't make it false. 

Put stones in people's shoes and let them decide for themselves.  You are convinced that your worldview is true.  And it may be.  But it's also possible that you have been fooled.  I view most things with at least a slice of skepticism.  I want to remain open to the possibility that my view is wrong.  None of us are infallible.