BrainKing - 讨论板 (Espionage)

题目: Re: jonaron - quiet man

happy hermit:
I followed all the thread about the identities of jonaron and quite man.
I'm afraid only people coming from IYT may read that.
Maybe someone should explain other players who really is quite man............

5. 十一月 2009, 00:46:07

题目: Re: Tourny for those with brains

SL-Mark:

Stand and fight? It seems I have little choice. :)

5. 十一月 2009, 00:51:57

题目: Re: jonaron - quiet man

dAGGER: I think the clues are there for anyone to figure it out, but the short version is that happy hermit = quiet man = argyle socks = Eric Hanson etc.. I change my account every time I change computers. And I am no relation to jonaron . :)

5. 十一月 2009, 02:44:40

SL-GentleKiller

题目: Re: jonaron - quiet man

happy hermit: If a man has so many identities, what does it count one more in addition?

5. 十一月 2009, 15:23:05

题目: Reveal Bug

Just to let you all know, I have just reported a bug in one of my games.
If you make a move that captures a recon and in that same move, also move a '?' that would touch this recon, ensure that you take the recon first, otherwise the '?' will be revealed as it was seen before it was taken, even though it is the same move!

5. 十一月 2009, 16:38:22

题目: Re: Reveal Bug

SL-Mark:
Did this happen in our game?
I'm taken notes about my unrevealed pieces!

5. 十一月 2009, 16:42:00

题目: Re: Reveal Bug

SL-Mark:
I don't think it's a bug Mark.This was well documented on IYT where the same thing happened.

5. 十一月 2009, 16:53:06

题目: Re: Reveal Bug

dAGGER: Yes our game. I did leave you a message saying that your piece on g4 is now revealed!

5. 十一月 2009, 16:54:24

题目: Re: Reveal Bug

SL-Mark:

Nice find.

This is news to me, but I will keep it in mind.

5. 十一月 2009, 16:58:52

题目: Re: Reveal Bug

Celticjim: I hadn't realised that. It does explain all my defeats. :)

I can't be the only one, as dAGGER too has just fallen foul of this.

Do you suggest we leave it as it is, or get it changed (if possible) so it doesn't matter the piece movement order with a move

5. 十一月 2009, 17:07:16

题目: Re: Reveal Bug

SL-Mark:

I would consider it a bug and think it should be changed. I wouldn't expect it to be a difficult change (I suspect they need to update certain properties for individual piece moves and then again at the completion of all piece moves and the 'identified' flag is getting set in the first check instead of the second), but it should at least be documented somewhere obvious in the mean time.

I never knew the issue existed at IYT or here until now.

5. 十一月 2009, 17:08:54

被Celticjim修改(5. 十一月 2009, 17:18:20)

I just assumed everyone knew this,I'm sure others will chime in but it was always something I bore in mind when making moves of that nature for many years now.Even if it is changed now it would be hard for me personally to break the habit of ALWAYS taking the recon first

5. 十一月 2009, 17:09:34

题目: Re: Reveal Bug

SL-Mark: I think it would be good if it got changed. It's not fair to those who don't know it and even if you know you can forget it. How do others feel about it? Should we make a request?

5. 十一月 2009, 17:28:11

题目: Re: Reveal Bug

SL-Mark:
thank you for admitting it!
I didn't know about this matter, that is a bug for me.
I think we should ask to fix it or at least to explain it in the game rules.

5. 十一月 2009, 17:28:45

题目: Next Tournament?

It's nice to see that it starts to be a discussion on this board. The level of the discussion is a nice mix of jokes, hints and other stuff. It's starts to look how it was in IYT in the old days.

I think it is to early to start up an "official" Sabotage Leauge-tournament. I think we should wait until January/February. Or at least the "Small Fast #1" should be finished. Or what do You think?

5. 十一月 2009, 17:30:41

题目: Re: Next Tournament?

SL-Bosse:
I look forward to a new league event, as I'm already out of the current ones!
:-)

5. 十一月 2009, 17:31:13

题目: Re: Reveal Bug

Chaos: Agree, it has nothing to do with the skill involved in playing the game. I have already listed it as a bug, saying that the piece movement order should make no difference whether the recon is captured first or last within the move.

5. 十一月 2009, 17:34:38

题目: Re: Reveal Bug

happy hermit: Me too. It was quite a surprise to see dAGGER's piece, one that he probably really did not want to show. An Italian disguise :)

5. 十一月 2009, 17:35:40

题目: Re: Next Tournament?

dAGGER: But can you as a Pawn enter a new tournament before it is finished? Or is it only to ask Fencer to fix it if you are out from the tournament?

5. 十一月 2009, 17:37:32

题目: The Italian Disguise

被SL-Mark修改(5. 十一月 2009, 17:38:06)

dAGGER: I think we can name this bug as "The Italian Disguise"

I had to mention it, the game is so critical now that it would be cheating not to say anything.

5. 十一月 2009, 17:43:51

题目: Re: The Italian Disguise

SL-Mark: We can start a nice "non-leauge" tournament called "The Italian Disguise"?

5. 十一月 2009, 17:44:25

题目: Re: Next Tournament?

SL-Bosse:

Has there been any discussion about holding a tournament outside the brainking tournament framework? I.e., the tournament pairings are posted elsewhere as we did in the past. This would be so 'pawns' are not excluded? .

5. 十一月 2009, 17:47:29

题目: Re: Next Tournament?

happy hermit: I don't think so. But it can be an good idea. But then we need someone to administrate it.

Just another question: As a "Pawn" you can not be member of a Fellowship? Or?

5. 十一月 2009, 17:51:17

题目: The Italian Disguise

From: Fencer (show this user's messages)
Date and time: 5. November 2009, 15:23:23
Subject: Bug #1959 has been updated
Archive

Do not reply to this message! If you want to post a new comment, please go to this bug page.

Title: Espionage reveal bug
Comment author: Fencer
Status changed to "not a bug".

No, that's how it is played here. The order of moves matters.

5. 十一月 2009, 17:55:54

题目: Re: The Italian Disguise

SL-Mark: We could still make a request for a change. If we do this as a group we have more chance of succeeding I guess.

5. 十一月 2009, 17:59:18

题目: Re: The Italian Disguise

SL-Bosse: That would be a great name for the next tournament!

5. 十一月 2009, 18:03:02

Styleone

which variant we play in the next league tournament?

5. 十一月 2009, 18:17:02

题目: Re: The Italian Disguise

Chaos: Chaos: I did mention to Fencer that we are having a discussion about it on the Espionage board, so as you suggest, all views put forward will be seen by Fencer, and perhaps he will change as a feature request?

5. 十一月 2009, 18:18:49

题目: Re: The Italian Disguise

SL-Mark: I vote for that it is a bug, and should be fixed.

Is it anyone who knows how to put up a poll here?

5. 十一月 2009, 18:25:14

题目: Re: The Italian Disguise

SL-Bosse: Link to the bug.
http://brainking.com/en/ReadBug?bgi=1959

5. 十一月 2009, 18:27:45

题目: Re: Next Tournament?

SL-Bosse: "I think it is to early to start up an "official" Sabotage Leauge-tournament. I think we should wait until January/February. Or at least the "Small Fast #1" should be finished. Or what do You think?"

You mean to say Small fast #1 and Open Fast #1 are not official ?

Just when I made it to the second round after sleepless nights with questionmarks haunting me...

Ok, now serious, I agree the pawns should be able to enter every tournament. it's just soooo much trouble to get a tournament going outside the framework. The BrainKing framework is perfect. I've organised several tournament when we were still at IYT and it really is a lot of work. It's more than administration. Players have to be seeded, there has to be checked whether the games have started, whether games have ended, what the outcome is etc etc. Players even forget a game is a tournament game.

5. 十一月 2009, 18:36:58

题目: Re: Next Tournament?

被SL-Bosse修改(6. 十一月 2009, 11:46:11)

Chaos: It should have been "I think it is to early to start up next "official" Sabotage Leauge-tournament"

It should be intresting to know how many players are reading this Board, and not writing anything. So everyone who is reading, but not writing. Just give a sign here or by an PM.

Following is active here:

Chaos
SL-Mark
Styleone
happy hermit
daGGER
CelticJim
SL_GentleKiller
Nothingness
Sir Lance-a-lot
SL-Bosse
rod03801
redfrog
Dark Prince
Pedro Martinez
lukulus
Vikings
Sandoz
Resher
Tian-Xian

5. 十一月 2009, 18:52:49

题目: Re: Next Tournament?

Chaos:

It could be a hybrid tournament. I.e., set up single section tournaments on BK for those that have a free tournament slot (all non-pawns, pawns not in any other tournaments) and group the other pawns in section(s) outside the brainking framework.

This lets everyone play, plus we can start the second round as soon as the first is decided and don't have to wait on everyone of Mark's 200 move games.

5. 十一月 2009, 18:55:27

题目: Re:

Styleone:

I suspect we will debate that at some future point. :)

In the meantime we could have our own two player tournament if you like. :)

5. 十一月 2009, 19:16:49

Sandoz

题目: Re: Reveal Bug

SL-Mark:

Hi everyone,

to me it does not seem like a bug. I know this from iyt.
And I consider it a quite logical thing, that a recon reveals every piece until the recon gets killed. Even within a move of your opponent. Nevertheless, one should clearly write it down in the rules of the game to avoid any disadvantages for newer players. If there are any new players .... ;-)

5. 十一月 2009, 19:21:20

Styleone

I agree with Sandoz. Don´t know about this "rule" before, but when I catch pieces I ever catch the recon first, because I thought he will demask my piece before he gets killed.

5. 十一月 2009, 19:21:50

SL-GentleKiller

题目: bugs

I'm wondering so many guys didn't know about this issue of revealing. As Jim said, it was discussed at IYT. I'm neutral regarding it, but we have to admit, it has its logic, more than that, it could be very difficult to modify the algorithm, b/c, if we think well, there would be a need to implement an illogical or ambiguouse rule, otherwise should be treted as an exception, that also gives headache to programmers.
This is what bothers me: When I hit the link for previouse move, first there's a need to hit it 3 times to show the position as it was before the actual one. More than that, when I come back to the last position - using the link for the next move - I can't make a move, there's no "hand". So I have to hit somewhere on a move in the list of moves, than click the last move on the list.

5. 十一月 2009, 19:28:44

题目: Re: bugs

SL-GentleKiller:

Oddly, I've played a game or two at IYT and never had an inkling of this. Also, I don't find it particularly logical considering that other moves on a turn are considered simultaneous (e.g. you can't move two pieces to the same square even if one of them will disappear in an attempted capture.) Still, just being aware of it helps and I can think of a position where the problem can't be solved by move order.

5. 十一月 2009, 19:44:52

SL-GentleKiller

题目: Re: bugs

happy hermit: It's not possible to move two pieces to the same square. The order of the five moves it's very important regarding the possible side-effects, such as the formerly mentioned revealing issue, but there are many others. However, the final result of the five moves is generated as they were made simultaneosly, not one after another. I'm not sure of this, but it's very likely...

5. 十一月 2009, 20:04:41

Josef said, in paraphrase"...When I hit the link for previouse move, first there's a need to hit it 3 times to show the position as it was before the actual one. More than that, when I come back to the last position - using the link for the next move - I can't make a move, there's no "hand". So I have to hit somewhere on a move in the list of moves, than click the last move on the list"

oh boy that is so annoying and illogical,well said that man

5. 十一月 2009, 20:23:39

Sandoz summed it nicely I thought
"And I consider it a quite logical thing, that a recon reveals every piece until the recon gets killed"
ba boom

5. 十一月 2009, 22:11:42

Sandoz

题目: Re: bugs

SL-GentleKiller: 3 hits

That's definetely a usability issue that should get fixed!

6. 十一月 2009, 03:12:21

Dark Prince

题目: Re: Reading...

SL-Bosse:
The message board feature and rating system are attractive to me here, but I can't say I care much for the game graphics or rule nuances.

6. 十一月 2009, 09:22:01

lukulus

题目: Re: Reading...

Dark Prince: I agree with graphic, but dont agree with rule nuances. Such nuance can win a game.

6. 十一月 2009, 11:00:08

Tian-Xian

I read but don't often comment

6. 十一月 2009, 11:11:15

Resher

题目: Re: Next Tournament?

SL-Bosse: I also read this board, but am waiting until my total number of games is more under control before joining in these espionage games more

6. 十一月 2009, 11:35:03

题目: Re: bugs and the 3 hits hinder

Sandoz: The 3 hits hinder is indeed extremely annoying. I think I remember people already complaining about this way back and that Fencer had answered it was the way it worked here. Isn't it the same in other games?

6. 十一月 2009, 11:36:37

题目: Re: Next Tournament?

Resher: Welcome on board! :) Hope to see you join the next tournament.

6. 十一月 2009, 11:46:00

题目: Re: Next Tournament?

happy hermit: 'It could be a hybrid tournament. I.e., set up single section tournaments on BK for those that have a free tournament slot (all non-pawns, pawns not in any other tournaments) and group the other pawns in section(s) outside the brainking framework.'
This is still a lot of work, because the organisor of the tournament will have to check on the single section tournaments and all the individual pawn games. If we grow bigger there will be several rounds afterwards. All individual games will have to be checked in those.

Plus it will be strange to have the pawns always playing against pawns in the first round. This will likely give uneven sections in numbers and skills.

6. 十一月 2009, 13:58:47