Greg,
I don't want to start another argument so I'll say it shortly:

1) It's everyone's right to stop playing here and it is not necessary to announce it at discussion boards.
2) When you make large enterprise applications, you usually don't do it alone and as a side project.
3) I never criticize someone else's work unless I know as much background information as possible. Especially when the work covers more jobs than a mere programming.

Just wait for Brainking being my full-time job, then you can judge me.

wOw,gREg..gUeSs yOu hIt yOUr ReLeASe "vALVe".

Rose, I think that's a great idea. I'd like to donate my 3 months back.

As far as remembering who won or lost games, I can't remember my own name, much less....now who are you? I'll vote for just starting from here. As a matter of fact, I'm willing to just resign all my games, and if my opponents don't want to agree to a draw, they can have them. If we were playing for permanent things like Master Points (Duplicate Bridge), I might be a little testy. But, I just can't get up any anger about this.

jason, honey, don't be cross. Fencer and Liquid are doing everything they can to insure this will never happen again. Let's just start here, and go forward. What is behind us is a wasteland, but we have each other. We can laugh and get through this.

And I realize that you have asked to have this done privately but it's time that things be said that should have been said a long time ago. I recognize that many of you have built up a community here which is an investment of your time and energy. I respect that. I cannot however respect this insipid cheerleading for a site that, in all fairness, is average. True, the scope of the games here is breathtaking and Fencer does play a more visible role in running this site than the owners of IYT or GoldToken (though I only have a passing knowledge of GT). That is commendable. I put my money where my mouth was and paid for a membership to a site that is really just limping along. I tried to encourage people to become members but honestly, how can I recommend a site that I myself am becoming dissappointed in? In short, this site is poorly managed by Fencer as a system administrator and as a benevolent owner. Between the bickering that he chooses to ignore by action if not by words and the ridiculous hardware issues I can no longer play here. However irrationally, I am angry at Fencer for his apparent inability to see that his creation is tarnishing and falling apart before him. What Fencer does not understand is that investment in time or money creates a certain expectation and when that expectation is dashed, it creates feelings of resentment and anger. This fiasco was completely avoidable and is avoided every day by companies with less money than Fencer has. I have been a system administrator for 8 years now, I am also a web programmer, I have made large enterprise web applications. I know what I am talking about when I say that money is not the issue at BrainKing, the underlying infrastructure and technology is. Coupled with Fencer's apparent innocence in providing customer service that is firm AND fair and really I don't see the value in being aggravated by playing here. I said I was angry, in fact, I'm also sad. I am a good player. Not the best but I am good. And I play some of the best here. But I won't be playing them any longer unless we can find some other mutually beneficial site to p(l)ay at.

I earnestly wish you all the luck in the world, Fencer. If anyone deserves to have his creation bear fruit and grow, you do. You've put a lot of time into this site and you truly care for it, which is rare. However, the future of BrainKing will not have me in it.

Greg

wHy nOt jUs pLAy 'Em oUt?
aFtErALL..wE'Re aLL iN tHa sAMe bOAt.

May I suggest that if games are to be wiped out it's done soon.

Many people have dozens of games going and they aren't going to be happy to wade through them only to find they're wiped out at a later date.

BBW that was going to be my next question. The weekend before the crash my membership was to be paid by the do the sponsor a pawn thing that the KM does. So I guess that info is gone to? Maybe the person that did it for me could please tell BK when they did it. So that maybe I could get my membership that I was hoping for.

i sHaLL pLAy My gAmEz tHRu..wIn oR LoSe.

I agree.. those I remember I lost I resign, those I don't know, I aks my opponent, if we both can't remember I ask for a draw and start up new games..

the only thing I haven't thought about is what to do with the to be started tourny's in my fellowhsip; but they were running before the crash.. should i start them up again? Or create new ones or delete them? any suggestions? What are others doing in their fellowships??

thanks!

were you at one stage using auto login and it has been reset to that Medic?

Fencer, I cant seem to logout of here. Closing my browser doesnt work either, I tried :(

I agree. Much better to start again with new games than to play the old games again.

It sounds good to me aswell Aragon. Who else agrees? We can start our games from scratch.

Im with BBW, most (if not all) of the games I now have have already been completed before. The ones that I know I lost (know for sure) I am resigning, but if unsure then I can't be sure I would make the same moves (good or bad LOL) this time around, my memory isn't that good :o)

Wiping them out and starting a fresh sounds good to me??

I'm sorry, Pioneer, I don't mean to make light of the games lost. I fully understand that there are serious players here that work very hard on their ratings and win ratio. You put a lot of thought into those games and no they're lost.
I guess I'm just so happy to be back :o)
But I do sympathise, and if anyone wants to scream privately at me (rather than do it on a board) then feel free. I will do my best to help out, and just listen if I can't do anthing else!

fencer has all the imformation been salvaged that can be or could there be anymore to be updated ? i just dont want to replay games if they are goung to end up vanishing in the next few days

ps i have most of my bkrs printed out but im not sure how this can be put back

To some amazement, I pretty much agree with everything everyone has said!! But don't assume that I am perfectly content. I lost 11 titles, so I can definitely empathize with Jason's 17 lost!!? But, as stated, it is impossible to rectify at this point.

I really admire and appreciate those here who play for just the fun of playing; however, there are those among us who take a bit more strident view of the competition and all; 'serious players', if you will. It is why we become game players, because we not only want to have fun, but want to excel as well, and we want to do it against the other best players. I'm really not bitter, harley, and there are indeed much more important pursuits in life than games, although it is really not very soothing to have someone tell you 'it is only games' knowing full well that six weeks of diligence has just been flushed down the toilet!

I guess it will take some time for me to adjust my mindset to play here again. I certainly cannot do it at the present time. One thing I am wondering is, can we report results we know to Fencer and have him tally the games, or must he hear from both players for every game?

Won/Lose games: I for one could not tell you which games I won or lost. I know a few tournaments I won, but I have no idea which games inside the tournament I have won or lost, so I think it is a bad idea to "ask" someone to resign because they lost the game before. I do like the suggestion of just wiping out all current games and starting from scratch - it would solve the problem above! :-)

Money back for Membership: By giving back your free 3 months does not really put money back into Fencer's pockets - except for the fact you would later on renew your membership 3 months earlier. Another idea might be to take the money you saves (by the 3 months free), and either create a prize tournament for pawns, or do the "sponsor a pawn" thing that the KM does - since that would get more pawns as members (hopefully the new pawns then get hooked and pay for their own membership)

Question: I do have the tournament results for some all of my finished "Fast Start" tournaments (Some that I have not even created yet!) - would you (Fencer) want a list of who won those tournaments, or should I just forget about the list? (Just the tournament winner, not any info on any game within the tournament).

BBW (BIG BAD WOLF)

jason: The data were backed up on a daily basis. As I already wrote on BrainKing.info, the backup server had crashed too. At the same day. Really bad luck, eh?

Many have learned how important backing up is, if they did'nt already know.
bUt i, 4 oNe, aZ SiLLy aZ i Am..sTiLL sUpPoRt Fencer & hIs sITe.

Awwww, never mind, Jason, it can always be worse.
Have you read the information about what happened? Theres a link on the main page. Data is normally backed up, but there were faults with that too :o(

Ive spent those sort of hours on here too jason, and won tournies too. But I couldnt care less about them, I was more bothered by not getting to chat with my friends etc. I am so happy now i can again :oD Just there are some I am still to find :o(
Well done fencer and Liquid, youll be getting the extra membership back from me :o)

(((hugs))) all round to everybody (even fencer & liquid) ..... now im going to lie down and cry lol

yes rose they are only games , but its still got me mad , some days ive been on here for 20 hours at a time ...just to finish games im playing .
i was under the impression that all data would be backed up on a daily basis , but i was wrong ;(((

(((hugs))) to Jason. And Rose is right, it is a bit gutting, but at least we're back among friends, right? The games can be replayed, tournaments won. But I'm with TexasRose, I missed everyone the last few days and am just glad to be back!

Awww but Jason in the large scheme of things they are only games.. more tourneys to follow, more wins to gain.

Hardware problems happen. There is not a game site on the internet that hasn't had a major crash in the last year. I for one am just glad to have some one working so hard to correct the problem and get the site back up and running. Extending the time on memberships is more than a genrous attempt to make good on a bad situation that could not be avoided.

Pioneer: Just an addition to harley's post. When the investment is done, I will post it immediately to the Server News. It means that nothing like that happened so far, that's why we are still running on the old hardware.

gutted , 17 tournament wins down .
, six weeks of hard work down the drain !!!!

its a big mess , im not even doing any moves the mood im in ......especially games that i have already won/lost six week before ....jason/gutted

I can answer part of that, Pioneer. There has been time slips before where the site has jumped back a few hours. Fortunately only twice that I recall, and never anything on this scale! But most games were sorted by good sportsmanship. Either replayed or resigned by the original loser.
Speaking for myself, I can't remember all games I lost or won, and would ask my opponents if I lost the game and don't resign, please remind me!
Of course people will be dismayed, but it goes without saying that Liquid and Fencer did everything possible before deciding to put us back online with so much data lost. It can't be helped and so far everyone has been fantastic about it. I'm proud to be part of such a wonderful site with great people.

i would like all the old games to be removed from my game sheet and we just play the current ones, or start over. i don't remember which games i won or lost, i can't even remember what i ate yesterday.

Must we replay (or try to remember) these old games? Some of mine I have written records for, and some not. However, I can recall what the results were, but..... we're kind of in a perilous situation here. With all the exuberance, no one seems to have noticed that we are going to somehow have to dispose of all these old games. It would be nice if everyone would adhere to the honor system, and admit which games they have lost, but is it reasonable to expect this, even among the friendly BK clientele? Will all of this need to be solved on an individual basis? I hope things will improve, but fear as more users return, dismay and complaints will follow. Perhaps just wiping out all the games in progress and starting over is worth considering.

I am also mystified by the fact that some time ago there was some talk about Ed Trice making a substantial investment here. What became of that? If such funds were derived, why didn't they get used to prevent this sort of disaster? Just curious.... I don't want to ruffle anyone's feathers, but there is no denying that the events here have been very perplexing.

Aww..that's so cool Rad.
G-d Bless.

We support you all the way Fencer, keep up the great work :)

Its weird to play games we played in september and early october and it brings back emotions as well, like having a game in my gamelist from GrannyOne, aka emattie1943.. and reading that last message from her, so wonderful and so sweet.. brings me to tears..

Set up a Fellowship with your idea! Sounds great Rose! :-)))

Sure Fencer, I'll put it in a PM :-)

And Rose, thanks for the good idea! :-)

Should one of us set up a temporary fellowship for people to sign up and let Fencer know they want to donate their 3 months back? Or should it be kept private and a personal message by each individual sent to Fencer to let him know to take it back?

Fencer.
It is nice to see everyone supporting you.
Jus goes to show how much we all appreciate the site you've created.
With all it's problems, BK is still the best.
And with sites other sites like GT losing members (tho they dont crash often) It is a testiment to how much we all love what you're doing!

tNp.

Thanks everyone :-)
Radiant: Since I can't remember the board description, could you please provide it once more? Thanks ;-)

hiya, I know u r working real hard. I was just wanting to know if everything is good to go now? And if everything has been reinstarted? If so then more then like most people my stats r not right. If there is not a thing that can be done about it. I will not cry over spilled milk. And let just let it be water over the dam...
TYVM for ur time.

Radiant recreate the customer service fellowship and reinvite everyone.. its the easiest way to do it

Withdrawl was difficult! Thanks for all the hard work Fencer and Liquid!

Board: Thoughts and Prayers
&
Fellowship: Customer Care Services

Could these please be restored, Fencer? Thanks a lot!! :-)))

Thanks Fencer And Liquid, great job! :-)))

tNp.

gOod jOb, FeNcEr.

It is, but I don't care. I'm sending some more money to Fencer to help defray costs. During this time off, I realized how much I really love and appreciate you people over here.

I think it's a case of all was lost between Sept 15th and now :(

talk about the time warp? Now.. all these messages dated on Sept?? are they really new also?? or were they just new on that day?