It would be very easy to implement on BK. Does anybody know more about that variant?

builderQ
challenge me anytime you want a bit of practice ;O)

Are there any computer programs that play Spider Line4? I could do with a bit of practice. :)

Yes, but strategy would be completely changed. Maybe draws would become too common? Still, it's something to look into...

I'd also like to see regular Line4 on a 9x9 board. :)

I think that if this game was played on a 9x9 board, there would be no need for rules 2 and 3 on the game rules page for AntiLine4, what does everyone else think?

Does anyone know of a game site offering the variant Euro 4?

Rules: The variant is played on a 7x7 board. The first piece must be placed in the center; subsequently each new piece can be placed in any space orthogonally adjacent to an occupied space. The first player to get four in a row wins. The player who moves first shall be refered to as White, while the second player is Black.

The move tree below details how White can win in, at most, eight moves. Most of Black's moves are forced, and where there are options, each is played to conclusion.

1. d4 c4
2. d3 ...
Black can do either d5 or d2.

With 2. ... d5
3. d2 d1
4. c3 ...
Black can do either b3 or e3.

With 4. ... b3
5. e3 f3
6. f2 c5
7. e2 g2
8. c2*
1-0

With 4. ... e3
5. b3 a3
6. b4 e1
7. b5 b6
8. b2*
1-0

With 2. ... d2
3. d5 d6
4. c3 ...
Black can do either b3 or e3.

With 4. ... b3
5. e3 f3
6. e5 b2
7. c5 b5
8. f5*
1-0

With 4. ... e3
5. b3 a3
6. e5 b2
7. c5 b5
8. f5*
1-0

I'll post the complete game move tree once, and if, I can find it.

Ok, I guess it is a forced win for player 1 from the start...! :-)

It still doesn't appear to be a forced win for either player...

No, I meant that a piece could be placed anywhere that was orthogonally adjacent to the position of another piece.

Do you mean that it would be like players "shoot" their pieces from an edge and they travel until they hit another piece (ie: if a space was surrounded on all four sides no one could ever move to it)?

Yes, it would be an odd-sized board, like in the pente games, with only orthogonal sticking.

Once I have time for it, I'll do a little study to prove the first player's advantage.

If it had to be in the "center", it would have to be an odd-sized board. And I assume you mean only orthogonal "sticking" (ie: not diagonal)? I don't think it would be an easy win for the first player.

Maybe a variant in which pieces could stick to the sides of other pieces would be interesting.

Perhaps it could be that pieces would only stick to each other, and not to any side. White's first move would have to be in the center, and play would build out from there. Some sort of restriction would be needed to prevent it being an easy win for the first player, though.

Thanks Rod -- appreciate your time.
=^..^=

No, your opponent will not be able to play B2 at that point.

Question please:
If I played my next move on C2, will B2 then be playable for my opponent?

Yeah ... BuiderQ seems right. Until we have a mathematical prove of the second player advantages we should keep it the way it is now. Anyway ... I'll keep on accepting invitations for double games (or maybe games where I'm not the first one to move :)))).

Maybe we should take a step back and remember that 8x8 line4 has not been solved yet. Neither player has been proven to have a sure win.

I assume you mean open invites can only be sent if the playing sending it is to play first? That would just create a problem similar to IYT - you have to figure out who has to invite who to play certain colours. I don't think anything needs to be changed - Five in Line is even more imbalanced...a proven forced win from the start by player 1 (by move 24 or something like that). If there are invites waiting for the wrong colour, don't accept them.

Ok, what do you think about that:
You can play a two games match or a single game but If you want to play a single game than you got to be the first one to move (you can't take "advantage") ... would it be fair ?

Because a single game is potentially unfair, whereas a 2-game match with alternating colours can't be.

Why should a two-game match be forced?? If you think that's the only fair way to play, then refuse to play any single games and only play two-game matches. If someone wants to play a single game, why should you try and stop them?

Indeed. That's it then, no single games for Line4, but minimum 2-game matches with alternate colours - Fencer, are you there? :)

I agree that two-games matches are the only fair way of playing Line 4 on the 8x8 board. Regarding the widely disparate skill levels BuiderQ was saying ... well ... If you want to beat a highly skilled player, than you got to take the risk and go for it !!! I don’t know any better way of developing your own skills than playing a “stronger” opponent … no pain, no gain :^).

Perhaps two-game matches are the fairest way? But they seem superfluous between players of widely disparate skill levels.

Consider the following, which is based on all line4 games played at BrainKing.
Statistics
White won 7614 (51.11 %)
Black won 7201 (48.34 %)
Draws 81 (0.54 %)
I don't think most players below the ceiling would find it much help to play as black against those above the ceiling.

<Then the solution is simple: when you get over a ceiling rating in Line4, you are banned from playing as black :>

Yes, i think the same, black player has and advantage on 8x8 board, but i guess if second player is not a good player, it's very easy win as whithe player

Yes, the 6x7 board is a first player win. I used to think that applied to the 8x8 board as well, and discussed the matter with grade1teacher, who thought otherwise. However, I have now joined the consensus that I discovered exists among the top players here: black has the advantage on the 8x8 board. The extra column negates much of 6x7 theory, and so far I can see no win for white.

This site basically says that Line4 isn't a fair game to the second player, as perfect play by the first player guarantees the latter's win. Is there something we can do to change this? I know that site refers to the standard 6x7, but there's no reason why their findings shouldn't apply to our 8x8.

www.farfarfar.com has some good (though not error-free) information regarding line4. It also has a reasonably good program you can practice against, and most importantly, a number of links to other sites related to line4.

You got something to say to me...then say it...i dont know what the problem is..but ive done nothing. so keep my name out of ur mouth.....

Unlike all the other line4 varations available on this site, linetris games are not limited to 32 moves. Indeed, they could theoretically last indefinitely. So, what is the record for longest game of linetris?

By the way, with all due respect to Tactician, I think this board should have a moderator who is online more than once a year.

I'm surprised that there is so little discussion on this board. Aren't there many line4 players on this site?
Anyway, I think that in line4 (all line games, in fact) the winning rows should be highlighted.

hmmm I'm not seeing any green..

Why, all of the sudden, do the black pieces have this horrible green background? It's a real distraction.

Okay, thanks.

Ughaibu: No you would not be able to play B2 in that situation. Each edge is like the bottom of a line 4 board..

Can a piece cling to any side of another or does this only apply to the edge? For example, if there are pieces on A3 and B3 can I play B2?

rather quiet here... i wonder wheter there would be an echo if i shouted this message ...
what about a "new" variation of line4: line4x4x4. Actually, the name says it all: it is played on four 4x4boards, representing a cube. Aim of the game: get four stones in a row (duh). Here is a link to try it out
http://www.cluchey.com/3d4r.html

some sites to practice against a java program:

1) http://members.aol.com/shadows125/connect4.htm

2) http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/System/3517/C4/C4Conv.html

...and there are more.

hmmm first to post...what to say...dunno.

what do i do?? lol

Well me and my brother(rahvin666) are currently trying out Spider line5 (or Stack 5x5) on a five in a line board now here at BK! We are only playing up to the letter J, which makes it a 10x10 board for starters. My first impressions so far of this is that its a bit to slow in starting, not much excitement, BUT as more moves are layed down, the thinking then starts!...see how it goes for now.

Kevin, how about the 'free space' move goes to black only and they can use it at any point during the game.

e.g. If white starts D1 then moves over to A4 on second move, then black could go for the prime sqaure, which would be D4! Hence it would be 'free in space'...or black could use it later in the game if you can see a white winning set up!...or you could vary this by white having 2 free space moves with black having 3! white then would not be such as an advantage(I dont think it is anyway in normal 4x4, but weve already had that debate, SLAYER? lol)

I meant of course that Spiderline4, or Stack 4x4 isn't that much of a challenge to me anymore....Matt knows what I mean....we know way too much theory and forced wins even after move 3 or 4! Then the following 6 till 10 moves are no fun........

Spiderline 5, or Stack 5x5 on a 12x12 board would be very interesting!! Then, new theories will have to be found out!! I'd love to try that one out (a 10 games exhibition match, Matt?!) lol
Would be a challenge as Spiderline 5 isn't that much of a challenge anymore for me, except against the best (no offense)........

Hexagons could be fun, although i imagine it would be even easier for player 1 (having 6 directions from each piece rather than 4).

Without a much larger board, 5 in a line would almost never happen but could be fun.

I would have to study it more, but my first impression tells me that a "free space" would give player 1 a much larger advantage, if not a forced win.

Can anyone think of any Spider line4 variations? like maybe have a 'free space' move per game in any square you like, or have a different shaped board, like a spiders web shape? or Spider line5(five) would be very interesting, & extremly hard to achieve! this could be for the advanced players maybe?