(V): well there you go, "I've always said that freedom of speech involves some responsibility, ..."
Publishing military secrets of another country = espionage

Artful Dodger: **i THINK HE'LL GO TO FAR ETC ETC""....why has it taken so long for everyone to start screaming about all this....
as I said below, if it wasn't for the "sexual" charges it would have just gone on as it was, and if it is so easy for people to get the US secrets and disclose them, doncha think you should be looking at your own security?

Vikings: ..... Military secrets?? .. what that the USA wants to spy on everyone? Or embarrassing war reports?

Artful Dodger: which major bank is he onto now? apparently things are going to get real nasty when all this information is released..LOL

America has frozen his money...pathetic.

Artful Dodger: That's right. ("wimpy prez") I wouldn't be surprise if his inactivity is quite planned.

Artful Dodger: Personally, I think it could be even more devious than that.

Artful Dodger: I don't trust him as far as I could throw him.

> The only thing the extremist muslims need is a bullet to the head. Kill them all is possible. they are all evil and all deserve immediate death. No battlefield caputres and this trial nonsense.

> The US needs to execute by fireing squad any US citizens that leak classified docs.

> I'd have had a CIA operative take him out months ago. And a few of his colleagues would taste the bullet as well.


Take no prisoners. Summary executions. Kill anybody who opposes you. Protect big brother at all costs. Sounds like something spoken by a true right wing fascist.

The truth hurts?

Artful Dodger:

> And that is a great example of left wing dishonesty.

Dishonesty? I am not the one who wrote those comments. I merely regurgitated them back, and pointed out to the fact that the language is highly reminescent of how some führers used to talk, not about Moslems, but about Jews and Communists.

But then, I am just dishonest. I suppose better dishonest than fascist!

"No one said anything about executions. I just said kill them in battle. That's Not an execution. I never advocated anything near killing those who oppose me. YOu made that up."

v

"The US needs to execute by firing squad any US citizens that leak classified docs."

Artful Dodger: as I said below in reference to the USA...the truth hurts, well it looks as tho it hurts others as well don't it...too bad, I hope he keeps it up.....we have a saying here in Govt...."Keep the bastards honest" 'praps this can also apply to others ROFL.

Artful Dodger

> No one said anything about executions.

>> The only thing the extremist muslims need is a bullet to the head. Kill them all is possible. they are all evil and all deserve immediate death. No battlefield caputres and this trial nonsense.

>> The US needs to execute by fireing squad any US citizens that leak classified docs.

>> I'd have had a CIA operative take him out months ago. And a few of his colleagues would taste the bullet as well.

I hate to hammer the same nail twice. It sounds to me that if a combatant is captured alive, the only way there are NO battlefield captures is if they are summarily executed. The other two comments speak for themselves.

What perhaps does it for me is that you claim to be a good Christian, yet you have no problem saying that it is OK to kill another human being for political reasons or to protect state secrets. You say I am a "dishonest" left winger. Is it worse than being a dishonest Christian? Or did Jesus preach killing others, even one's enemies? I won't make generalizations about the American religious right, but I do hope your comments do not reflect their beliefs.

Well, we as human beings are full of contradictions. All I can say is that politics and religion should NEVER mix (even if the Tea Party faithful disagree). It is in those instances that the best of us throw our most precious beliefs to the wind in exchange for political views. The reason why we claim to be better than extremists is precisely because we do not do summary executions, or have a take-no-prisoners attitude, or have a kill-all-traitors attitude. We should leave those to fascists, terrorists and extremists.

What Wikileaks did is probably the tip of the iceberg. I think that in the future there will be even more leaks, and bigger than this. One of these days somebody will release encryption keys for the Pentagon, the CIA, MI5, etc. Then entire networks will be compromised. All it takes is somebody who does not agree with the system. Going after the Wikileaks people will probably just make it worse. Now people will see the system as oppressive and controlling. It might just make things worse.

Übergeek 바둑이: All the more reason to be sure each one is severely punished

rod03801: They tried that in WWII.. The French resistance is an example of those who would be tortured in the collecting/sending of info the Germans.

.... When a certain Chinese pilot (think I remember his nationality right) landed a MIG and through that action divulged USSR top secret technical data... was he handed back?

.. As a matter of observation. If the UK courts via an application by the likes of the MOD thought Assange was really causing major concerns to UK security. He'd be up on charges of treason.

... He ain't.

Artful Dodger: Übergeek 바둑이 is right though. As a matter of example that you'd execute in cold blood a human.. it makes you no better then those who say they'll kill via terrorism.

(V): Ridiculous

Übergeek 바둑이: you of course are right and it only shows up the P... Poor security systems that are in place. and when encryption keys (whatever they are LOL) are released it will be too bad...thanksfully the bottom isnt going to fall out of the world in my time (well no more than it has now)....god help my great grand kids.

rod03801: Really.. how?

This business of TOP SeCrEt can be a baroque thing. I know for certain that a project I worked on over a decade back was covered by the OSA, I can't talk till I die about what I did and saw working on what was a military project. Yet at the same time I know for certain the information is already out there on several sites, and the tech that was developed back then is now in extremely common use in the civilian world every second 24/7.

How it works is certainly NOT secret in any way shape or form.

.... about 99.99999% of everyone on this site has at least one of the everyday items using the technology.

..... Is just the embarrassment factor for the USA? Golly.. Much of that everyone knew. Much of all the documents were probably known by one intelligence agency.. Israel for example has many spies in the USA and bought quite a few people from what's been in the news...

.... Yet where is the witch hunt on that fact?

(V): Um follow the subject line. I wasn't commenting on that post.

rod03801: ... true on that.. I did misread... bad nights sleep.

.. as for the subject line. .... No. It is not ridiculous. It's murder regardless of who you dress it that is being advocated.

... A bit like when USA citizens were giving money to the IRA and Sinn Fein. Some must of thought it wonderfully romantic. But the money was used to kill.

.... where? Utah??

Conservatives where? The old west.. where the Red Indian was the enemy.

.... Bullets can't kill an idea.

(V): they were here 1st...it was the europeeons that were the enemy

Bernice:

> Poor security systems that are in place. .... god help my great grand kids.

I think a lot of people don't realize the extent of government secrecy, and what it holds for the future. Today everything is computerized, and computers are very good at collecting, sorting and storing data. Every time you buy something with a bank card, credit card or debit card, it is catalogued. Credit card companies (and their ugly cousins, the credit reporting bureaus) know EVERYTHING of our financial comings and goings. Every time we make a phone call it is processed through speech recognition systems. The telephone companies know EVERY person we have ever called. Banks know EVERYTHING we have bought using their bank accounts. When we walk anywhere with digital; cameras, our faces and bodies are potentially scanned for anatomical features that can identify us individually. Every medical procedure we ever had is now computerized.

Our governments have access to all that data, plus all the other data they collect themselves, like fingerprints, social insurance numbers, taxation data and even DNA.

At the present, nobody cares, but the day will come when governments will see political opponents as a threat. Anybody who does not agree with the system is a potential target. And we have given our goverments the rights to act in SECRECY under the guise of NATIONAL SECURITY.

I am not paranoid, but those people who fear big government should think twice before continuing to support the kind of power that computerized systems have placed in the reach of governments and the power-hungry men that run them.

Our grandkids will be scrutinized even more. I might not entirely agree with Wikileaks, but anything that starts dismantling the power apparatus that the new BIG BROTHERS have can only help to ensure that our grandkids will not be emprisoned in a digital gulag that controls every aspect of their life, from where they spend money to who they talk to on the phone. We have written laws that give our governments that kind of power (take the Patriot Act), we should set about dismantling those laws and ending the culture of secrecy that threatens everybody's freedom.

The Daily Mail....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI

(V): Gotta be true!

Mousetrap: ... Hitler's favorite UK paper.

> Bush Memoir Sells 2 Million Copies in 2 Months

I suppose that really takes away the fact that the Bush admnistration manufactured intelligence to justify a war that ultimately plunged a country into sectarian violence. I wonder if Haliburton will give back the $90 billion in profits they made thanks to the war.

Artful Dodger: Hail Queen Kim!

Artful Dodger: Have you been living on Neptune to miss all the proof that has been published?

In the 1950's.. America's so called Golden age, Most of the rest of the industrial world was rebuilding after being bombed and/or overrun by various countries armies. While American Conservatives are after a return to that golden period, they cannot. The divisions in Europe as agreed by the USA/Russia/UK have now gone. Imperial UK has given independence to much of the old empire. The USSR is gone. Billions spent on creating WMD's can never be regained.

The world has moved on. If American conservatives want to regain anything like that past period, they must follow one simple rule. Get over it.

.... and maybe start to spend less than 50% of the countries GDP on the military... which seems more important to them then their own citizens health.

Artful Dodger: Is the zzzzzzzzzzzzz because they didn't teach much real history when you went to school rather than "duck and cover"??

I cant help but wonder what british history books say about the american revolutionary war

Bwild: Depends on what level you are studying to. Basically .. you won.

... But we did get the madness of King George. Which, last I read was somewhat caused by the loss of the America's..... Him going nutz led to the birth of the modern treatment of mental health issues.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AK6jQZcqZB8&feature=related

..... Bill is lying again!!

Artful Dodger: lol...

Artful Dodger: ROFL......

Funny.. I thought that we were at war with France and Spain stretched our logistics had more effect than "cheating".

I mean.. it's not like you are playing Monopoly and cheat by knicking a few K.

Australia admits.. we just ain't got the homegrown skilled labour force, so we want more Brits..

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/australia-relaxes-its-immigration-rules-to-persuade-skilled-young-britons-to-emigrate-461911.html

A bit like in the 1950's-60's when Brits were being offered to able to migrate to Aussie land for just £10.. 1 million Brits emigrated under that scheme.

(V): Please read what you post before you post it....again your google has let you down....that article is dated August 2007...stop living in the past.

And 1 million brits did emigrate to Aus because they were sick and tired of being in a country that was so poor, there was no work, and the country was still in a mess from the 2nd world war....they came to a land of milk and honey, as did a lot of germans. They had the choice of australia or canada....I dont know how many went to Canada

Bernice: Yes... Rationing was still in place, we were still rebuilding. As was Germany and many European countries. We were not poor, just we had come through years of being bombed. There was work, just some were pulled by the thought of having Xmas in the sun

As to the article being 2007... wow! big deal.

FEARS are mounting that major resource projects are at risk because of the intensifying skills shortage.

The number of business leaders calling for the government to urgently act to limit the economic damage from the skills shortage is growing.

Global ratings agency Moody's warned that Australia's energy industry, which is driving growth with more than $150 billion worth of new projects planned, has seen competition for labour and equipment "intensify dramatically".

Companies including Rio Tinto, Leighton Holdings and Transfield Services have called for more flexibility to bring in skilled foreign workers under the 457 visa program to fill labour gaps and relieve the building pressures that threaten to derail project timetables and fuel inflation in the broader economy.

* Sarah-Jane Tasker and Katherine Jimenez
* From: The Australian
* December 08, 2010 12:00AM
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/skills-crisis-risks-150bn-worth-of-projects/story-e6frg8zx-1225967252748

as I said.. big deal.. shortfalls just don't cure themselves overnight. UK businesses and the government analysis projected skill pools years in advance.

.. In relation to why Australia might have to source out maintenance.

If this continues to turn personal, all participants WILL be banned. Thank you.

15/12/2010

The UK's skills shortage is affecting larger business growth, the Institute of Directors (IoD) has said. Its survey reveals that 31 per cent of employers are finding it hard to fill vacancies due to a lack of candidates possessing the necessary skills for a role.

This is echoed by the latest Report on Jobs from the REC and KPMG, which stated that businesses are finding a skills shortage in some areas, including IT specialists.

The IoD claimed that the hardest skills to find are in technical skills, management and leadership. In addition, the association found that 47 per cent of those surveyed said that some of their current employees also lack the skills required to perform their job.

"It is disturbing that at a time of economic weakness, the growth of the private sector is being held back by skills shortages," commented Miles Templeman, director-general of the IoD.

This has led to 58 per cent of employers claiming that the skills shortage is restricting the growth of their business through higher costs, stifled innovation and increased workloads for other staff.

http://www.womenintechnology.co.uk/news/iod-uk-skills-shortage-affecting-business-growth-news-800292413

Artful Dodger: It won't be debated on this board. You responding to what you see as baits makes you just as guilty. This board is about to go on approval status. So please, start off 2011 behaving.

Blimey!!

very poor service here.....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/dec/31/mothers-nhs-overnight-care-doctors