Czuch: Pardon?? It was a simple question...

Look and see.

Artful Dodger: No. I wouldn't need to. Other ways to get info without the need for torture. A certain police force use it quite often

Czuch: Czuch ... do you know waterboarding means??

I suggest you take a look at some demonstration videos on youtube. Where people agree to see what it feels like.

And using water torture (as I quoted) was considered a crime by the USA. What's changed??

Imsoaddicted: I've heard of such rubbish being said. It's a damn right disgrace!! I'm glad that most ignore that garbage. The man (or woman) in the street doesn't care. Plain and simple. And as far as I'm concerned breaks the law!! There is rules as such to prevent such stupidity under the religious freedom org that about 99% of all faiths and churches have signed.

I hope the day that the OTT crowd get their way ends soon. As far as I'm concerned the sooner the better. Extremes are always bad!

Imsoaddicted: Tell me about it!! It's getting that in some cases that you can't be honest in telling your feelings in description these days. Even though the same crowd that says you can't uses their version as such which breaks the rules they say we have to live by!!

Imsoaddicted: Blame the 'PC' crowd! So many of what I call descriptive words are taken as being insults these days rather then being plain descriptions.

Some people just get upset to easily and we have to pay the price.
It would be far better for them to be told to grow up and stop being so insecure!!

Imsoaddicted: Domestic science is considered (in the saying, not the act) sexist I think.. But yes, from my experience home skills are still taught.

And like you, me and me better other half were taught how to cook, and we teach that to our siblings.

I even make our rice puddings (two types) as even the hob only type is far better then what in shops you can buy (unless you pay a fortune) for a fraction of the cost with ten times the quality.

It's the little extras that count

gogul: We have as well... It's called fair trade decent income...and fast becoming the established norm.

Imsoaddicted: Not in our family we are not. But it's a taught thing either way.

gogul: Such figures though since the recession are to be far from accurate. Less money to waste = less food to waste.

Shops now stock less perishables as they know they can't sell so much.

gogul: Every single Swiss is better then every other person educationally in the world??

I better tell Steven to stop publishing and teaching... and oxford and cambridge to close their doors!!

Übergeek 바둑이: Who on earth is wasting our proportion then!! We waste very little, even leftovers from meals we re-use as much as possible.. A dog is a great waste recycler!!

gogul: Maybe I don't sense humour in your posts.

gogul: failed?? That's your opinion and your problem if you believe that!!

Imsoaddicted: EU laws!! But smart local shops know their customers and as I mentioned before will apply common sense and give to their regulars what they know is safe.

It's worked good for us... each month I recon it's given us about £20 in still good products.

Saffron.. Vanilla sugar... Sweets.. etc..

Imsoaddicted: I thin also they have to consider how long it'll take to get to the homeless people... It can be an additional waste on energy (fuel,etc) transferring food around on the hope they might get it those who need it.

Shame.. but sometimes it's just not economic or safe to donate some food products.

Übergeek 바둑이: Tartar sauce.. I make at home!!

gogul: No. Again you show how little you know us Brits.

And it's not all cheap food, many items are expensive but necessary for good cooking and a good diet.

And much "waste" we compost and reuse in growing next years home grown crop of veg and fruit... and if you have the space.. to feed animals such as pigs.

"........

United States law

The United States Supreme Court in Sosa v. Alvarez-Machain, said that the Universal Declaration of Human Rights "does not of its own force impose obligations as a matter of international law."[164] However, the United States has a historical record of regarding water torture as a war crime, and has prosecuted as war criminals individuals for the use of such practices in the past.

In 1947, the United States prosecuted a Japanese civilian who had served in World War II as an interpreter for the Japanese military, Yukio Asano, for "Violation of the Laws and Customs of War," asserting that he "did unlawfully take and convert to his own use Red Cross packages and supplies intended for" prisoners, but, far worse, that he also "did willfully and unlawfully mistreat and torture" prisoners of war. Asano received a sentence of 15 years of hard labor.[105] The charges against Asano included "beating using hands, fists, club; kicking; water torture; burning using cigarettes; strapping on a stretcher head downward."[165] The specifications in the charges with regard to "water torture" consisted of "pouring water up [the] nostrils" of one prisoner, "forcing water into [the] mouths and noses" of two other prisoners, and "forcing water into [the] nose" of a fourth prisoner.[166]

..........."

gogul: shows how little you know about us Brits!!

Those three times of waterboarding....

That's what the CIA admitted they had done, there is evidence that it might have happened before Bush sanctioned it!! Therefore how can it be said (seeing as the CIA hides a lot of things) they only did it three times?

Many things in the CIA have done yet not admitted to until someone has blown the whistle on them.

Especially as it is not 3 times, but ON THREE DETAINEES!!
The actual number of times that actual waterboarding was carried out on those admitted 3 people ... and on one person such actions were carried out over 80 times!!!

... According to your Justice dept!

Artful Dodger: So God is now not part of life, we have no spirit or soul??

There goes Christianity... best all those making a living out of it hang up their coats!!

Artful Dodger: God is rubbish?? The OT is rubbish!!

Please, one minute you use science, one minute you are against it. Adam was created then given life.

Now... which is it??

And don't use some old outdated (and the Jewish community know it) understanding of life... It was thought up before scientific understanding of life came into existence!!

Artful Dodger: No. Telling the truth. Without 'spirit' life as such is not alive, just so many elements working to make more of the same. Crystals can do that

Are you going to say a rock is alive??

gogul: Rubbish!

WE import so much, that is the problem.... and Health and Safety requires that food that can be poisonous is not sold. And they have to allow imperfect conditions on storage as well as a safe period so that goods do not suddenly go off on the stroke of midnight.

I don't throw away yoghurts, and the EU law about fruit & veg shape and size is being fought at the moment.

... Switzerland has Health and Safety regulations doesn't it... or does it sell poisonous food?? If it does.. then the EU would ban imports from Switzerland, so your chocolate makers would loose most of their trade!!

Artful Dodger: No... it's a biological life form, just like a plant, virus (and from a scientific point of view it is a fight between mother and embryo)......

But when is life (from a spiritual point of view) conscious in that biological shell??

That is the point when suffering can occur.

Artful Dodger: Keller is a doctor, they have an oath remember

And torture was used (waterboarding being one method) more than "THREE" times.

And there are other methods to obtain info without torture. I mean whatever happened to all those truth drugs, psychics, lie detectors, etc??

Artful Dodger: Really, it cannot harm you.... Are you sure, I suggest you check

Have you heard of Dr Keller?

And as such there is no confirmation for the purposes of training it is not used.

Artful Dodger: Yes....

"...is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing the victim on his or her back with the head inclined downwards, and then pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages, causing the captive to believe he is dying...."

You think that is nice??

If so, explain how.

Artful Dodger: Ok.. Get someone to half drown yourself repeatedly, and then report back to me how it feels.

Artful Dodger: I just did explain.

"half drowning"

And please... waterboarding was just one of the methods that Allied troops have been accused and taken to court over. So your other post is rather moot don't you think.

Czuch: I never said that.

Czuch: Saddam at one stage.. Taliban at one stage, and many others in the name of the cold war. They have all killed civilians.

Or is such info kept out the papers in the USA so you can eat your breakfasts without indigestion problems??

Artful Dodger: What!!! You consider repeatedly half drowning someone a nice thing??

If you do.. explain how!

Czuch: No.. your gov agencies just support people that do in the name of democracy!!

As to unborn babies... how do you know they are conscious? To mutilate and torture an unborn child they have to be conscious, and much of the arguments are based on old ideas from Judaism that the sperm is the carrier of life.

Is that enough explanation?

Czuch: why are abortions no better then terrorists?? Some archaic old law based on misconceptions of how a baby is made???

As for terrorists, sure they ought to be caught and tried... but torturing them rather screws up the higher ground that those interning the terrorists are claiming to have. You see it's called terrorising a prisoner.

Where is the nobility in that?

gogul: No. It doesn't. That would be totally illegal, and anyone caught poisoning waste food would be subject to criminal prosecution.

Yes alot of food is wasted, this is due to food safety and that much food is imported out of season to the UK's own calender, but at the same time if you shop wisely you can use the sell by system to your advantage. It is possible to buy food at a fraction of the original selling price!! All then you need (if you are going to consume it that day) is a freezer. Especially handy with meat products

And there are some stores that offer to sell to charitable people of the 'soup kitchen' ilk at a very reduced cost rather then waste it.

I do admit some of the 'sell by' dates are stupid in regards to products that never go off (eg honey) ... but if you are friendly (like we are) with local stores, then they'll just bung it to you with your regular goods rather than it be wasted... free of charge!

gogul: .. Interesting that many English laws (and as such all western law) derives from Islamic law... as entertained by John Makdisi in a 1999 law review.

And from what I gather, it is not about a head hunt for Cheney, but about the secrecy of a program that some are saying that congress should have never been kept in the dark and as such were misled.

gogul: Which hell?? 4 types in the Bible. .....well at least in the original texts.

gogul: Ahhh so you mean the misinterpretation of certain verses regarding what happens to those who engage in suicide bombing and other activities involving attacks on civilians.

IE... they won't go to heaven for suicide attacks, and attacks on civilians is forbidden....

Like with all religious books it's a matter of interpretation.
... And those Muslims who pervert the Qur'an will face the same problem that those who pervert Christianity or any other religion.

... Separation.

gogul: ??? fairy tale???

gogul: Lots of people want Bin caught... unfortunately the USA started the Iraq war as a distraction.

.... was it due to Bin's family calling in a favour?? Who knows!!

Czuch: Study economics, you might see why I see a difference.

... It'll end all those question marks

Czuch: I'm not others.. I'm just me. And we are not talking about trickle down, we are talking of uncontrolled collapse.

Don't you know the difference

Czuch: it's the reasons why it's not good. I gave a hint by referring back to Pres Raygun.

Again... it's a matter of economics and real life, rather then ideal models.

and Btw.. if regs are in place no-one needs to micro manage from the government. As the auditors/accountants/lawyers by LAW will do it as part of the yearly accounts.

Do you understand that?

Bernice: I don't know... I can't talk for everyone or know everyone... do you??

And btw..... If you are against state benefits then I suppose you are against state pensions??

If you are.... then are you for the re-introduction of work houses?

Bernice: Bludge?? Those that are genuine, or those that are not? Those that are not get caught over here... But that are genuine....

... let's just say one lady looking after 3 kids found out that red tape had made her lose out for several years over a 'tick' in a small print box. Even though nowadays what she missed out on is automatically included. It's only because she was inspected that she found out what she was missing out on.

... The inspector said she deserved all the help she was due for the job she had to do.

You see you can be unemployed and still be working hard. Or do you feel Parents don't work in looking after kids?

Czuch: Trickle down..... Not good, it didn't work for Ronald Raygun

Why... boards, cycles, and other things like Madoff.

Czuch: I'm not..... You are just thinking I am. That's your fault not mine.