The UK is actually a great place to live and we're not all "stupid and incompetent knuckle draggers". We have our fair share but no more or less than other countries.

Bernice: The Brits claim a "no tolerance policy" but it's more like a no intelligence policy.

Bernice: That could be said of just about everyone on this board. The only thing that differentiates us all is "why?"

as Rod said""""You enjoy arguing, for arguing sake.""""

In December 2006, it was revealed that a The Guardian journalist, Ian Cobain, had worked undercover in the BNP for seven months, becoming the party's central London organiser.[68][69] Among the accusations made by the paper was that the BNP used "techniques of secrecy and deception ... in its attempt to conceal its activities and intentions from the public". It asserted that the BNP operated with a "network of false identities" and organised rendezvous points to allow members to be directed to "clandestine meetings". Party members were directed to avoid "any racist or anti-semitic language in public". Cobain also claimed that the membership in central London had expanded beyond the party's traditional range, now including "dozens of company directors, computing entrepreneurs, bankers and estate agents, and a handful of teachers".[68]

Following the report, the campaign group Unite Against Fascism called for ballerina Simone Clarke to be dismissed from the English National Ballet, because her views on immigration were "incompatible with a leading arts institution such as the English National Ballet" and because she had "used her position to support a party which fosters division".[70] Clarke said: "the BNP is the only party to take a stand against immigration".[70]

The BNP was investigated by the Electoral Commission in 2007, after The Guardian revealed that it had set up a front organisation to raise money from sympathisers in the United States.

"....The EDL leadership has estimated that the EDL has 100,000 members.[31] A research group has given a lower figure of 25,000 to 35,000 members.[32]...."

Bernice: Is that Australia or Austria??

Artful Dodger: It is a point when the source presents data that will include children taught that being white is 'special'. It is a point when you still have homophobic parents and groups saying be gay is against their version of God.

Bwild: HAHAHAHA....you are so spot on...the UK having no where to go but up... and (V) "there is a big piece of land "......
I wonder what you would call the centre of Autralia hahahaha

and AD.......OMG, the Brits are all nuts. Political correctness gone mad. Stupid and incompetent knuckle draggers......ROFLMBO


I love waking up to all this humour :)

Artful Dodger: Nick Griffin on Question Time "egg on yer face"???

"In total, 34,000 nursery, primary and secondary pupils — including more than 20,000 pupils aged 11 or younger — were effectively classed as bigots for so-called ‘hate speech’"

Could you provide info on how many of the children were from families who support the likes of the BNP or EDL?

...be noted I could find countless articles, but rather it be just read than worry about keeping up with the extra posting!!

Home Office minister John Denham has been criticised by the police for using the phrase "nitty gritty" because of race relations rules.
Mr Denham used the phrase during a debate at the Police Federation conference in Bournemouth.

He was told that police officers could face disciplinary charges for saying "nitty gritty" because it dates from the slavery era.

Some rank-and-file officers say the rules about language have become "a minefield" and have made them inhibited in doing their job.

Has political correctness gone mad? How much care should be taken by police over language?

Artful Dodger: Like the people in America who base their politics and science on a book.

Artful Dodger: Noooo. no comparison. It just seems silly to get all worked up over a school kid standing in front of his class, while there are many worse things happening.

A parody in fact

Bwild: We have land, just in some cases it's locked up in planning arguments/debates.

eg.. there is a big piece of built on unused land a couple of miles from us. It is going to rebuilt on houses wise, but not for some years. One of the problems is many of the structures were built using asbestos in various ways.

It is harder with such pieces of land to build on than with virgin plots as you know.

10 months? I thought it was summer! Who's saying December?

(V): I would think England has the same issues as many "small"(land mass) countries...over population and no where to go but up.

in the U.S. its the rising costs of utilities,recession, and "green" awareness.
houses are selling for 50 cents on the dollar in some areas..which puts a strangle hold on the construction industry.
doesnt really matter...in 10 months we're goners anyways! lol

A lawmaker has refused to sign a resolution celebrating the Girl Scouts' 100th anniversary as the group has become a 'radicalised organisation'.

Republican Representative Bob Morris from Fort Wayne, Indiana claims they promote a 'homosexual lifestyle', transgenders and the values of Planned Parenthood. Morris wrote to his fellow House Republicans to explain why he would not be supporting the resolution, which thanked the Girl Scouts for its 'strong positive influence on the American woman'.

But after researching the Girl Scouts on the internet, Morris said he found accusations that the group worked with Planned Parenthood. Another of his disturbing' finds was that they allowed transgender girls to join.

...."Dear Fellow Representatives:

This past week I was asked to sign a House Resolution recognizing the 100th Anniversary of Girl Scouts of America. After talking to some well-informed constituents, I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing

The Girl Scouts of America and their worldwide partner, World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts (WAGGGS), have entered into a close strategic affiliation with Planned Parenthood.

Abundant evidence proves that the agenda of Planned Parenthood includes sexualizing young girls through the Girl Scouts, which is quickly becoming a tactical arm of Planned Parenthood. Denver Auxiliary Bishop James D. Conley of Denver last year warned parents that 'membership in the Girl Scouts could carry the danger of making their daughters more receptive to the pro-abortion agenda'.

Many parents are abandoning the Girl Scouts because they promote homosexual lifestyles. Of the fifty role models listed, only three have a briefly-mentioned religious background – all the rest are feminists, lesbians, or Communists.

Boys who decide to claim a 'transgender' life-style are permitted to become a member of a Girl Scout troop, performing crafts with the girls and participate in overnight and camping activities – just like any real girl.

The fact that the Honorary President of Girl Scouts of America is Michelle Obama should give each of us reason to pause before our individual or collective endorsement of the organization.

I challenge each of you to examine these matters and to decide carefully whether or not to sign the resolution.

Respectfully,

Bob Morris...."

USA Conservative PC??

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2104108/Lawmaker-Bob-Morris-refuses-support-Girl-Scouts-100th-anniversary-promote-homosexuality-encourage-sex.html

Übergeek 바둑이: The main reason our average size 'houses' have dropped is the amount of flats being built for first time owners or commuters. There has been some 'splitting' of old large plots into multi house development, but that is now being frowned upon. Most older developments/'estates' have plenty of space, some have even won awards and had other European developers copying the layout and form.

Artful Dodger:
..."He was made to stand in front of the class and make an apology while his mother, Jane Hennessey, was called in by the head of Purford Green Junior School in Harlow, Essex...."

Not exactly water boarding.. although you think that is fine. Or Apple using slave factories in China to make enormous profits, but you think it's fine as long as the profits are enormous. It's not capitalism's fault the workers are committing suicide because of the 12+ hour shifts they are working... It's communism's fault!!

Now I'm not comparing the kids ordeal of having to stand in front of the class to sweat shop slavery.. In no way am I!!

Bwild:

From that article, it was the first time in 15 years that the average size of homes had decreased:

"To be precise, the median square footage of newly built homes fell to 2,065 square feet in the first three months of this year, compared with the same period last year, according to the U.S. Census Bureau."

For the first three months of 2008. The question is: Is it a trend, or merely a one time occurrence in 15 years?

I found an interesting set of data from the United States Census Bureau:

http://www.census.gov/const/C25Ann/sftotalmedavgsqft.pdf

If we look at that table, there are some interesting things we can notice.

From 1973 to 2007 the mean and average square areas increased. Then 2007, 2008 and 2009 saw a decrease in the areas. The most likely explanation is the subprime mortgage crisis of 2008 which continues into the present.

The areas also depend on which part of the USA we look at. The northeast actually saw an increase in areas, in spite of a decrease in areas in other parts of the country.

Nevertheless the trend is clear. In 1973 the average area for a single family home was 1660 sq. ft. By 2007 the areas peaked to 2521 sq. ft. That is an increase of 861 sq. ft. or 52% increase over a 34 year period. In essence the average home added the area equivalent to that of an extra 2 bedroom apartment.

The last 3 years saw a modest decrease from 2521 to 2392 sq. ft. That is 129 sq. ft. Obviously financing for mortgages has become more difficult, and that means that people can borrow less and are forced to build slightly smaller homes.

We can only hope that the trend will continue so that the market place can add some moderation to the ever increasing house sizes.

Artful Dodger: But you are comparing them....

"ou can't argue FOR a policy or a LAW when such results in immoral actions. It's simply WRONG on ANY LEVEL. Whether rounding up the Japanese or the Jews or even something as "small" as falsely accusing a little kid of something for which he is innocent, that is wrong. And you know it. Or at least you should."

So stop saying you are not... it's just silly and dumb.

Übergeek 바둑이: homes are shrinking...not growing.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/07/real_estate/shrinking_home/

Artful Dodger: It's still SILLY to compare the incarceration of Japanese policy wise with that which is just intended to cut down on bullying at school.

It is not anywhere like the same.

"It's no wonder your country is in such a crappy state of affairs."

And yet neo nazi groups are legal in the USA... ??

Artful Dodger: Yes.. but this is hardly the same situation. The analogy quite frankly I find silly.

Artful Dodger: The authorities are required to log events even if they amount to nothing. These are schools and that is the law. This has happened due to the amount of bullying that has occurred, which at the time no-one paid attention to.. till some school children committed suicide with a direct link established to the bullying in the schools that was being ignored.

So some mistakes and over reactions occur in order to save lives of kids. But that is not important to the Daily Mail, just the over reaction.

(V): The source of the info doesn't matter if what is said is true. Clearly the kid did nothing wrong and the authorities went overboard. They are morons.

ScarletRose:

> I like a home around 2500 to 3000 sq ft.. 4 bed rooms and 2 1/2 baths.. 2 car garage.. with a nice big yard to make into a garden and room for a greenhouse and a studio.. that is my dream..

That is precisely the current "North American" dream. I say North American because Canada is the same. The point I am trying to make is this. We want big homes. That's fine. However, where does all the concrete, lumber, metal and plastic come from? Is the environment affected more by a bigger or a smaller home? Obviously yes. Lumber comes from cutting down the forest. Metal and concrete from open pit mining. Plastics from processing of oil products. To produce all these things e need to run refineries, smelters, factories, power plants, etc. That means carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Heating, air conditioning, cleaning a bigger home, removing more garbage from a bigger home. All these things mean more environmental impact.

Bernice pointed that in the UK the average home is 800 sq. ft. In the USA it is 2200 sq. ft. One in relation ot the other means about 3 times as much environmental impact for a home in the USA.

So people face two choices. Keep building large homes, or scale back. Since people always want bigger, the USA will continue to consume a lot of energy, until the price of oil is so high that people are forced to consume less. I suspect that in 30 years, it will be impossible for Americans to keep building like they are. We already see signs of that. In many places there is already a crisis in the collapse of home values. Since building bigger homes means that properties are more expensive, the market place is forcing a loss in the sale of those big homes.

The future probably will be such that people will see themselves forced to live in tiny, very expensive apartments. How long before rising house and energy prices forces people to build small, energy efficient homes? Only the rich will be able to afford the 2,200 sq. ft. I already see it here. Little houses worth 500,000 USD. Nobody can afford to buy those homes any more. Hence the short-term price collapse, followed by massive inflation as energy goes up in price.

Artful Dodger: Nicely stated in the comments...

"Any comment perceived to be racist HAS to be logged. The form she was asked to sign would not label her son a racist but state his involvement in a racist incident with a clear and accurate description of the incident, including quotes (the forms usually go out to parents of all involved, including any victim). This is standard procedure. Teachers and school staff are not in the habit of accusing young children of racism, and none of us know the context the 'quote' was said in, or any other background information, The LEA gather stats of racist incidents from schools so it would not be in their interest to falsely report racist incidents. Sounds like the parent is blowing this way out of proportion to me,which is ironic since that is what she is accusing the school of."

- Cal, Enfield, 19/2/2012 8:13


Likewise the Daily Mail

Bernice: I think you just have a strange imagination. No-one does that unless they are very strange, as it is not needed.

"but then from what I have seen they all live on the footpath anyway"

We have wheelie bins. They by law are not allowed to sit on the footpath, except on the night before collection day.

Übergeek 바둑이: ... land here in the UK is more expensive. More recent building projects have in many being squeezing in more units per plot.

"Considering winters here, heating those houses uses a lot of energy."

It does. We've seen in the UK more guidelines on what is the minimum effective insulation in the attic, which has basically doubled. This was done after thermal imaging tests showed that roofs were still leaking a significant loss. Bigger the roof area.. bigger the loss.

Bernice:

dreaming is not necessarily greed... it's a motivational tool

ScarletRose: I already have a 1/4 acre (big enough) 3 bedrooms, 1 bath, carport LOL, a huge garden , greenhouse, and would LOOOOOOOOVE a studio.....for my cake decorating :) but what I have will have to do. ya cant be greedy...MUCH hahahaha

Bernice:  I like a home around 2500 to 3000 sq ft.. 4 bed rooms and 2 1/2 baths.. 2 car garage.. with a nice big yard to make into a garden and room for a greenhouse and a studio.. that is my dream..

Übergeek 바둑이: read this.......

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14916580

Übergeek 바둑이: looking at stats UK homes are on average 800sf compared to Aus/Usa 2200sf. We like our open living and don't like to be locked in. We have double access (front and back) whereas from what I have seen in UK terraces you have to go in front door to get to back door.
Imagine...having your rubbish bin outside the back door and having to transport it THROUGH the house on rubbish day...but then from what I have seen they all live on the footpath anyway :(...not healthy living as far as I am concerned...gotta have that wide open spaces :)

(V):

> Not in the UK they aren't.

Here in Edmonton they are. Alberta is under a long-term oil boom. People have built ne homes in big numbers in the last 6 years. The homes are huge. Builders have lost all sense of proportion because consumers demand those big houses. Considering winters here, heating those houses uses a lot of energy. I am sure some parts of the USA face the same problem. Seeing TV shows from the USA it is obvious that all of North America has similar thinking. Bigger is better.

Übergeek 바둑이: No. Not human.. partly yes. Yet philosophically just our animal instinct to build perverted into 'things' that really have no meaning...

"Houses built in the last 10 years are easily three times as big as homes built in the 1950s."

Not in the UK they aren't.

Artful Dodger:

> I drive a small truck. a friend bought a huge truck.

It is just human nature. We always want things bigger. I see it here in our city. Old neighborhoods have homes that are much smaller than newer neighborhoods. Houses built in the last 10 years are easily three times as big as homes built in the 1950s. With each passing decade homes became larger and larger. At the same time families became smaller. Now people expect huge homes, and have only 1 or 2 children.

This translates into a big waste of lumber, steel, concrete, plastics and other construction materials. It takes energy to make those things, and more energy to heat a bigger home.

We are a society out of control. We are spoiled and we think we are entitled to bigger and bigger things all the time.

Bwild: It was a joke!!

Birds though through soaring or ground effect (skimming) can delay greatly the energy they need to use.

Übergeek 바둑이: I totally agree with your post. I believe everything you said is true. I drive a small truck. a friend bought a huge truck. Mine's paid for but his not only guzzles gas, it chews up 400 buck a month. I paid 6 thousand while he around 40. Now he can no longer afford it.. Just not smart on so many levels.

(V): what does terminal velocity have to do with the fact that if birds dont flap..their gunna fall..no matter what their terminal velocity is. gravity WILL win by confrontation with the earth! lol

Artful Dodger: I can we gather all the PR folk from the Republican 'candidate' race, and place them in a big biomass plant?

Bwild: Yep... especially at terminal velocity!!

Artful Dodger:

> I keep my heat low, turn off lights when not in use, drive only 4 miles to work, don't
> travel much, and on and on. The US may use more (they don't use the most however)
> because it's more available and we can afford it.

I think it is not realistic to ask people to cut their consumption by 80%. It is what the average American would have to do in order to bring consumption to the world average. It would be like asking people to stop using their lights, refrigerator, air conditioner, car, etc. It would not only be unrealistic, it would be economically destructive.

I think that our shcool should teach children to use energy responsibly. Teach children to waste less electricity by leaving lights on, leaving the TV on, keeping appliances plugged in when they don't need to be, etc. We should teach children to reduce wasted energy.

Then we should teach children different values. We value big vehicles. Everybody wants a huge pickup truck, a huge minivan, a huge SUV. We should teach children that cars are not toys, but working vehicles. The vehicles that we choose should be a reflection fo the work we do, not of our desire to have fun. Here people buy big pickup trucks just to show off, not because they need them for work. Those values have to change too.

I think we are decade away from getting rid of oil as a source of energy. However, that does not mean that we should not plan for the future. Oil will run out sooner or later, and when it does we better be ready to substitute it with something cleaner. There are alternatives, they are not perfect, but that is no reason to reject them outright.

One thing is true, the oil industry is trying to milk every cent of profit out of oil. Their economic interests lie with oil and not with "green" energy. Alternative energy companies have interests that lie away from oil. Our politicians are now caught between economically competing interest groups. As always, our politicians will side with whoever puts the most cash in their hands. It is the nature of the lobby system. Since the oil industry has the most cash for now, their political interests will be represented more than those of "green" energy. As green energy becomes a bigger and bigger business, the political wil will shift, but we are decades away from that.

Bwild: Oil is free as is gas and coal. Oh wait, there's a cost to harvest it. But there's a cost associated with all energy sources. NO energy source is free. There's always a cost involved. Even once the source is tapped, there's a cost to maintain the equipment that captures the energy.

Unfortunately, we are years away from using renewable energy sources effectively and efficiently. In the meantime, I say drill and tap ALL sources of energy.

(V): "They still have to fly."
thats only because gravity is free also!

SL-Mark: It's not creating energy out of nothing, just taking advantage of natural phenomena, such as some of the devices mentioned which can obtain charge from the potential difference between one end buried and the other at a certain distance above ground. Reminds me of the old crystal radio sets.

(V): Well, its down to how you define 'free.'

Wind, solar, and even hydrocarbon are all 'free' energy, in the sense that you can produce more energy from them than what you put in to extract it.

This is the same with a bird (or even a glider). You need some energy to first reach that height, but then using the energy in the thermal (potential) convert it into motion (kinetic) to theoretically stay airborne indefinitely.

However, this is not the same 'free' as being able to extract more energy than that which is available, something only a perpetual energy machine can do, i.e. create energy out of nothing, something truely free and unencumbered! However, your bird is encumbered, its height and speed is limited by the energy available in the thermal.

SL-Mark: Would the way some birds use thermals to gain height to be able to travel further be considered using 'free' energy?

.... They still have to fly.