BrainKing - Diskusní kluby (Feature requests)

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Subjekt: "Up and Down Chess" - new way of playing

here is what I managed this night ... this is a new way of playing chess, around the chess board, kind of spherical ...
No pieces are added, no rules are changed just only our perspective of looking at the board ... imagine that you bend or wrap the board like a tube and the rows of royal pieces of different colors touch each other ... now make this tube flat. You will see white pieces positioned on the upper half of the board and black pieces on the lower part ... (white royals stand on the 5th row, white pawns on the 6th and black royals stand on the 4th row and black pawns on the 3rd row).
White start of course, moving its pieces up the board and emerging on the lower part of the board and black start moving down the board and emerging at the top of it ... it's seen from the white player's perspective ...
I would call it Up and Down Chess ... what do you think about this idea ?

Andy.

29. června 2009, 18:00:48

nabla

Subjekt: Re:

Změněno uživatelem nabla (29. června 2009, 18:02:37)

AbigailII:
1) The system is the one used by the US chess federation. It is in fact Elo-based like Glicko (Glicko being Elo enhanced with a clever coefficient handling).
2) The system is indeed not Glicko because it handles the coefficient differently. Glicko seems a bit better to me for the reasons you say, but USCF is not evil.
3) The system handles a match as one single entity. I think that is fine : accounting for the score in cubed backgammon matches would make no sense, and even in chess, playing for a draw in order to win the match is fine and should never lose rating points.
4) The system handles a match as one single game. Now that is very bad because the longer the match, the higher the probability that the better player wins. That opens the BK system to exploits.

Backgammon players have devised a fix for the point 4), which is called the FIBS rating. It is not perfect, but it does pretty well. Basically, you multiply the rating difference by the square root of the number of points required to win the match.

I explained to Fencer how it could be quite easily implemented here, and he said something like "maybe" (that was long ago).

29. června 2009, 17:50:20

AbigailII

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Subjekt: Re:

Teachme2play: It's not Glicko. Your rating doesn't change much because you have played a lot. But if you now stop playing line4, wait a couple of years, and then play again, your rating will still not much. BKR considers a rating well established if you have played a lot of games. It doesn't distinguish between having played those games in the past month or five years ago. Glicko does.

29. června 2009, 16:12:22

SunnY DaY

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Subjekt: Re:

AbigailII:
I don't know scoring systems much, but it can be some glicko modification. (I play a lot of line4, and now my score changes vary from 4-25 when my opponent is 2000 or 1200 - my score is 2100)
My idea is still active. Pleas state your opinions.

29. června 2009, 16:03:15

AbigailII

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Subjekt: Re:

Teachme2play: I think that the score calculation should be slightly different. It's Glicko, isn't it?

No, it's not. It's neither Glicko (which would take into account how recent your rating is - if you've played a lot recently, your rating will change much less (aka, is more stable) than if you haven't played a lot recently), nor is it even Elo based (which does account for how big the score was in a match - with Elo, you can actually gain rating points while losing the match: for instance, if the rating difference say you ought to lose the match 7-3, but you only lose 6-4, you win rating points; the winner of the match looses points).

What system BK uses, I do not know. But based on observations how rating points are calculated, I can say it's neither Elo, nor Glicko (note that Glicko also takes into account which how many points a match has been won).

28. června 2009, 00:01:58

grenv

Subjekt: Section ordering

Any chance the tournament sections could be ordered by points instead of Rating?

27. června 2009, 11:07:51

pedestrian

Subjekt: cheshire cat dice - yet another game idea

This idea is not fully developed, I just wanted to put it up here and see what people think.

A cheshire cat dice has the special feature that whenever it lands on one side, that side disappears and you can't land on it again. That means that a cheshire cat dice can only be rolled six times, then it's used up. It also means that the more times it is used, the more predicable it gets.

Now, what would happen if we played some of the dice games here with cheshire cat dice? Backgammon? Dice Poker? Do you think it would change the strategy in an interesting direction? I imagine that the dice would be replaced every sixth move, and you would have some kind of special graphics to show which rolls are still possible.

26. června 2009, 16:18:00

coan.net

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Subjekt: Re: Blocked Users Feature

talen314: I myself would like to see a different way to block certain users from tournament you create - that is I might have someone on block who just annoys me, but I could care less if they were to join & play in tournaments that I create.... I just don't want to listen to them is all. But an easier way to block people from your own tournaments would be nice, rather then the current way of having to manually remove them.

26. června 2009, 11:49:44

SunnY DaY

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I think that the score calculation should be slightly different. It's Glicko, isn't it?
The changes should appear in matches, for example 5 games match:

Now if you win such match, you gain, let's say 20 points.
But you all agree that winning 5-0 is more valuable than 3-2, isn't it?
Could the scoring system be modified, so that the winning player would gain score adequate to his result in the match, not as in single game?
Example:
I win 7-4 in a match. normally, Glicko calculate would my new score, so I'd get 20 points. (let's keep it simple) But since I've won 7-4, Glicko's result is multiplicated by 7/4, and therefore I recieve 7/4*20=35 points. On the other hand, my opponent loses 7/4*10 points, which means his/her score is down 17 points.

In case of winning 5-0 (5/0's absurd) we could use 5/1.

26. června 2009, 04:58:33

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Subjekt: Blocked Users Feature

It would be nice if blocked users also could not join tournaments sponserd by the person that blocked them.
talen314

23. června 2009, 21:19:17

cd power

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Subjekt: Re: Search Tournaments for Ones That Need Just One More Player

Změněno uživatelem cd power (23. června 2009, 21:19:46)

talen314: GREAT Suggestion.... that is one of the best suggestions I have read on this site.

23. června 2009, 19:15:48

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Subjekt: Search Tournaments for Ones That Need Just One More Player

One feature I would really like to see is a search function in the tournaments that would display only tournaments that need just one more player to start. Sometimes I want to start a few more games and this would make it easy to make them tournament games.
talen314

23. června 2009, 17:31:39

troydaniels

Subjekt: Achievement links to games

One nice addition to achievements: when it is based on a single game, include a link to the game with the achievement. I just got an achievement for rolling all six types of doubles in a backgammon game, but there was no obvious way to go back and look at the game.

23. června 2009, 07:01:42

rabbitoid

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Subjekt: Re: PGN

Změněno uživatelem rabbitoid (23. června 2009, 07:02:54)

MrWCF: It's called "Portable Game Notation" as though it applied to any game, but it doesn't. The definition is for chess only. It's fairly recent. As far as I know there's no regulating authority, so you can extend it any way you like, but then, of course, there's no guarantee that other people who develop the same game will use the same convention. Just for example, to extend to loop chess you need a "parachute" symbol, which has been taken as '@'.

Checkers, for example, use an entirely different notation, and as checkers is fairly established I see no chance (or reason) why people should switch to PGN.

By all means, define a PGN for camelot, it's not difficult. The move notation used here and on http://www.worldcamelotfederation.com/ can serve as basis, just add tag definitions and don't forget a "variant" tag!

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_Game_Notation for it's history.

22. června 2009, 23:33:45

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Subjekt: PGN

Are there any Portable Game Notation (PGN) experts out there?
What does it take to modify PGN so that it can capture games other than Chess (like Camelot)?

22. června 2009, 14:30:25

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Subjekt: Re:

joshi tm: Of course, and it would be only possible to know how each team is placed when the team tournament/challenge start.
Example:
Team A Team B
Player 1 (2000 points) - Player 1 (1900 points)
Player 2 (1950 points) - Player 2 (1700 points)
Player 3 (1700 points) - Player 3 (1600 points)
Player 4 (1500 points) - Player 4 (1550 points)
Player 5 (1200 points) - Player 5 (1400 points)

If players with more points won, so Team A would win 3-2, but with my idea...

Team A Team B

Player 1 (2000 points) - Player 5 (1400 points)

Player 2 (1950 points) - Player 4 (1550 points)

Player 3 (1700 points) - Player 1 (1900 points)

Player 4 (1500 points) - Player 2 (1700 points)

Player 5 (1200 points) - Player 3 (1600 points)

This way, if captain of Team A wish place his team according to rating and Team B try out other strategy, so Team B would win 3-2, if players with more points won.

22. června 2009, 14:16:43

joshi tm

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But the opposing team has also a team cap to switch player order?

22. června 2009, 13:08:01

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Subjekt: Re: Some ideas for team tournaments

coan.net: To finish about my second idea, many times when you see teams that already sign up and see rating of each player, you know who will be the winner team. Only time out can cause surprise. With my idea, there's more strategy. :)

22. června 2009, 12:58:46

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Subjekt: Re: Some ideas for team tournaments

coan.net: Lol. I think about my first idea you're thought as a team player and about second idea you're thought as just a player.

Well, present format of tournament is more adequate, i don't have questions about that, but i suggest that sometimes could be used single elimination tournament. I think that would work as a team tournament too, because it's always a competition between teams and the more strong will be the winner. Besides, a single elimination tournament with a little time control would be beneficial for brain knight, because when his team is eliminated and round is finished, can play other team tournament. However, in present format with a long time control, rounds are very slow.

About the captain switch around the order of players, i think firstly must be tryed out in challenges between 2 teams to see what people think about that and if is more funny and strategic. I think so and talking about your question, you as 4th best player can be placed in first position, but you can play against top player or againt a worse player than you. You don't know how the other captain placed his team. Ok, you can be sacrificated, but your team can be the winner for that. Well, belong to team is this, the more important is the team.

21. června 2009, 22:01:09

coan.net

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Subjekt: Re: Some ideas for team tournaments

Undertaker.: How would single elimination tournaments work as a team tournament? - that is how would the match up work since the current format of the tournament is that it would be easy enough to make the first round be one team against another team, but the next round, the winner of each round moves forward so it would turn into where players on the same team would play themselves.

As for being able to let the captain switch around the order of players. An interesting idea, but for myself if I'm not too good of a player, and if the captain decided to place me against the top player as a "sacrafice" lose so the team can keep their top player to play someone else, I would be a little upset. That is at least now how it is setup, if I'm the 4th best of the team, I know I'll go against the 4th best on the other team - I may still be over matched, but at least it would give me more of a chance then going against their top player.

21. června 2009, 21:16:06

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Subjekt: Some ideas for team tournaments

Until now, all team tournaments have same format...why not create some team tournaments with single elimination? And now it's possible use Byes. I think a tournament with simple elimination is more slow, but with an adequate time control that question is resolved.

I have also other idea, trying become team tournament more funny and strategic. When a capitain choose his team, players are placed according to their ratings. In my opinion, that favour best teams, so i propose that capitain of each team could put players how he wants.
Example: Capitain can put a player with worse rating in first place of his team and best players would be placed at the end, trying surprise the opponent team and win games where usually wouldn't win. When a capitain team sign up his team, the name of players would have to be substituted for ?, before at the beginning of tournament.

20. června 2009, 06:50:12

Subjekt: CHESS 13440

CHESS13440

INTRODUCTION
My chess variant is like Chess960 (or Fischer Random Chess) except that a General, Marshall, and Cardinal are substituted for a Rook, Bishop, and Knight.

PIECES
Chess 13440 uses a standard 8x8 chessboard. Each player has a force of eight Pawns, five standard chess pieces (one King, one Queen, one Rook, one Bishop, and one Knight) and three variant chess pieces (one Cardinal = Bishop + Knight, one Marshall = Rook + Knight, and one General = Queen + Knight).

STARTING POSITION
The starting position for Chess13440 must meet the following rules:
1. White Pawns are placed on their orthodox home squares.
2. All remaining white pieces are placed on the first rank.
3. The white King is placed somewhere between the white Rook and the white Marshall.
4. The black pieces are placed equal-and-opposite to the white pieces. For example, if white's King is placed on b1, then black's King is placed on b8. Note that the King never starts on the a-file or the h-file, because there has to be room for a Rook or a Marshall.

PROCEDURES FOR CREATING THIS STARTING POSITION
This procedure generates any of 13,440 possible initial positions.
1. Randomly place the white General, white Queen, white Cardinal, white Bishop, and white Knight on squares of the first rank.
2. Randomly place the white Marshall on either the first or the third empty first rank square.
3. Place the white Rook on the third or the first empty first rank square (depending upon the result of the previous procedure.
4. Place the white King on the remaining empty first rank square.
5. Place all white and black Pawns on their usual squares.
6. Place Black’s pieces to exactly mirror White’s.

RULES FOR CASTLING
Chess13440 allows each player to castle once per game, a move by both the King and Rook, or the King and Marshall, in a single move. After castling, the King and Rook’s (or Marshall’s) final positions are exactly the same positions as they would be in standard chess. Thus, after a-side castling (notated as O-O-O and known as Queenside castling in orthodox chess), the King is on c (c1 for White and c8 for Black) and the Rook (or Marshall) is on d (d1 for White and d8 for Black). After h-side castling (notated as O-O and known as Kingside castling in orthodox chess), the King is on g and the Rook (or Marshall) is on f. Castling may only occur under the following conditions:
1. The King and the castling Rook (or Marshall) must not have moved before in the game.
2. All of the squares between and including the King's initial and final squares must not be under attack by any opposing piece.
3. All of the squares between the King's initial and final squares (including the final square), and all of the squares between the Rook's (or Marshall’s) initial and final squares (including the final square), must be vacant except for the King and castling Rook (or Marshall).

17. června 2009, 21:29:50

Subjekt: "Caesar Legio" - new game proposal

go back in time and become Roman Emperor now ... it's a game where you manage your legions and try to break thru the opponent's legions and land on his first row ... be like the famous military genius, Jules Caesar and outsmart your "barbarian" opponent ...

- capturing and moving according to chess rules are allowed ...

- goal: to be the first to land on opponent's first row ...

- placement of legions: row1 (bottom of the screen) 8 queens, row2-8 rooks, row 3-8 knights, row4-8 bishops ... row5-8 bishops

row6-8 knights, row7-8 rooks and row8-8 queens ...

****

this is a very tricky, fast game ... watch you legions, they are getting weaker every minute ... use your capturing moves in combination with positional moves wisely ... the last blow can be very quick and unexpexted since CHESS DISCOVERY technic is very powerful in thsi game ...

the goal is similar to many games of breakthru character ... but this time we use the power of all the major chess pieces and the full board ... it's very "juicy" from the very beginning ... unlike Massacre Chess we have one starting position, which allows for some opening theory and study ... it may appeal to many of you who would rather stay away from the chaos ... and of course the GOAL is from entirely different universe ...

Hope you like the idea ...

Andy.

14. června 2009, 06:50:09

Subjekt: Interdiction Shogi

Změněno uživatelem talen314 (14. června 2009, 07:15:24)

Interdiction Shogi
Rules are the same as Shogi except for the introduction of a new piece, the Zero, which prevents enemy drops within one square of its location. The zero moves like a king and starts on the square in front of the king.
Zeros do not promote.
Comments welcome.
Scott/talen314

12. června 2009, 18:03:31

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Subjekt: Re: Behemoth Recycle Chess

joshi tm:buahahahahahaha ... really, and add to it spherical , atomic and recycle ways of playing and Big Bang would be no more than children playground ... Masssacre Chess is more than a game: it's a base for many other, funny and dramatic games ...
Andy.

12. června 2009, 16:36:06

Subjekt: Squire Chess

Squire Chess

Standard Chess Setup--except the king, queen and bishop pawns are squires.
All rules are the same as Chess except the following.
Squires may move in any forward direction and may make a two-square move on the first move, including diagonally. A squire reaching the last rank promotes normally.
Squires protected by knights may move as knights like in Knight Relay Chess
If a knight is captured one of the squires of the capturing side that is remaining on the board may be replaced with a knight on the same move, similar to promotion. If none remain the knight is removed and the move is finished.
Comments welcome..
talen314

12. června 2009, 08:06:47

joshi tm

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Subjekt: Re: Behemoth Recycle Chess

talen314: I would like to how a combination game of Behemoth and Massacre Chess plays, that'll be a real slaughterhouse ;)

11. června 2009, 18:20:39

Orlandu

Subjekt: Chinese checkers or a new Halma Line...

Take a 8x8 board... Put the 10 pieces in a triangle at the middle top and lower middle... of the board...
Then play is done like halma...

10. června 2009, 17:12:25

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Subjekt: Re: Mortal Loop Chess

cd power:
I think this variant would be pretty easy to implement. I think I have seen some similar ideas about in this regard but I forget where.
Scott/talen314

10. června 2009, 16:26:03

cd power

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Subjekt: Re: Protected Chess

talen314:

I like the protected chess concept, as it brings more complexity to the game of chess, which is why I like chess variants so much. However, I would like to see a protected chess similar to a "Knight relay chess," where the protected piece can move normally, but can also move like the piece that is protecting it. So if a pawn is protected by a rook, the pawn has rook capabilities. If a queen is protected by a knight, the queen has knight capabilities (in addition to it's regular queen movements). If a rook is protected by a bishop, it has rook + bishop capabilities, etc.

10. června 2009, 16:22:47

cd power

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Subjekt: Re: Mortal Loop Chess

talen314:

I like the mortal loop chess concept... every drop brings about a "demotion" until the piece is eventually cleared from the board when captured as a pawn.

10. června 2009, 15:49:14

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Subjekt: Behemoth Recycle Chess

Combines Behemoth and Recycle Chess. The Behemoth captures pieces like usual but any pieces captured, except the king which still results in the loss of the game, become available for drops like in Recycle Chess. Any pieces captured by players are permanently removed from play. The goal is still to capture the king.
Comments welcome.

10. června 2009, 13:57:41

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Subjekt: Mortal Loop Chess

Plays like Loop Chess except that captured queens drop as rooks. Captured rooks drop as bishops or knights, player's choice. Captured bishops and knights drop as pawns. Captured pawns are removed from play.
The goal of the game is checkmate and other rules like castling and en passant are in force.
Thoughts...?
talen314

10. června 2009, 11:16:18

Subjekt: Possible Feature

There are some Chess variants where there are subvariants that are quite similar. For example there is a variant of Amazon Chess where the Amazons can not capture each other unless the enemy Amazon is unprotected. One possible way to implement such small variants based on what Brainking always has is to create a submenu that will come up when creating a new game that allows a player to select what rules will be used for a particular game, kind of like the autopass feature already in use for Backgammon.
Scott/talen314

10. června 2009, 06:35:02

Subjekt: Latest version of Protected Chess where pawns have special worth.

Změněno uživatelem talen314 (10. června 2009, 13:26:36)

Hi,

I thought of one way to simplify the movements for Protected Chess. Queens, rooks and bishops move in the usual directions but only one square and knights only move in the forward directions if protected but can't jump the orthogonal space in front of the knight must be open. Unprotected knights can jump. Pawns remain the same except that a piece protected by a pawn has its usual powers; this will make pawns important in the game.

Unprotected pieces have their usual powers. Castling, for protected king and unprotected rook only, is allowed and so is en passant, for only unprotected pawns. Only unprotected pawns may jump two squares on the first move. Only unprotected pawns may promote.
There is a contradiction that occurs if two rooks/bishops protect each other in that protecting each other they would get the shorter move but would then actually be unprotected move. Perhaps pieces that mutually protect each other would move as protected pieces despite actually being unprotected.

Thoughts?

Scott/talen314

10. června 2009, 06:11:38

Změněno uživatelem talen314 (10. června 2009, 06:24:39)

This version might be easier to remember. If protected bishops, rooks and queens move in the usual way, but only in the forward direction, and the knight moves only in the forward direction. Pawns and kings have the usual movements.
Unprotected pieces then gain their additonal movements. This would certainly force both forces to close with each other.
All thoughts are welcome.

A tactically more dangerous version might use the Amazon for the Queen's promoted state, the Rook and Bishop gain the ability to move as a knight as well and the knight could move 1 or 2 squares forward before moving one diagonally. Pawns move in the usual way.

10. června 2009, 06:00:07

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Subjekt: Re: Protected Chess

pedestrian:
I can go with leaving the pawns the same. What do you think of the concept?

10. června 2009, 00:43:31

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Subjekt: Re: Protected Chess

pedestrian:I agree, just what I said: leave the pawns the way they are ... do not berolinize them ...
it's so easy to go over the board and create monster ...
Andy.

9. června 2009, 23:42:50

pedestrian

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Subjekt: Re: Protected Chess

ChessVariant:
I think this "protected chess" would be confusing enough without special rules for the pawns. Consider, for example, a position where white has a pawn on d3 and bishops on e4 and f6. Assume that the bishop on f6 is unprotected and moves like a cardinal, giving check to the black king on g8. Now, provided that the d3 pawn is the only piece protecting bishop-e4, black may parry the check by taking this pawn. Be4 now becomes unprotected and moves like a cardinal, so Bf6 is protected and moves like a bishop, and there is no check. I imagine that this kind of chain reaction could become extremely complicated and create some insane tactics - so please, just let the pawns be pawns :-)

9. června 2009, 23:22:29

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Subjekt: Re: Protected Chess

MrWCF: consistency is very important ... I would leave pawns like they are instead of creating some kind of berolina funny stuff for them ... or, just figure out something "out" of this world for them ... I am curious ...

Andy.

9. června 2009, 23:13:30

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Subjekt: Re: Protected Chess

ChessVariant:

Regarding Pawns in the variant Protected Chess, I gave it some thought, but couldn't come up with anything that I thought was logical and playable and consistent with the other promotional piece abilities.

For instance, one thought I had was....

Pawn: Moves, captures, and promotes like a Pawn if unprotected. Moves (straight ahead) but can't capture (diagonally) or promote if protected.

9. června 2009, 21:11:35

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Subjekt: Re: Protected Chess

MrWCF: these modifications make sense ... at least it's clear now who and when inherit what ... but, where is the pawn ? the true power of chess ?

Andy.

9. června 2009, 21:03:58

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Subjekt: Re: Protected Chess

Změněno uživatelem MrWCF (9. června 2009, 21:06:46)

talen314:

Protected Chess--interesting idea!

Perhaps a modified version like.....

Queen: Moves like a General (Queen + Knight) if unprotected by a friendly piece. Moves like a Queen if protected by a friendly piece.
Rook: Moves like a Marshall (Rook + Knight) if unprotected. Moves like a Rook if protected.
Bishop: Moves like a Cardinal (Bishop + Knight) if unprotected. Moves like a Bishop if protected.
Knight: Moves like a Cardinal (Bishop + Knight) if unprotected. Moves like a Knight if protected.

This clever idea of pieces that assume different powers at different times is also present in the Chess Variant that I've lobbied for on this site -- Inheritance Chess: Pieces have inheritance powers. Pieces of a given color on the same file inherit the movement powers of one another. These powers do not stay with each piece for the entire game; the inherited powers are only inherited while the pieces are on the same file as one another. Also, the rook pawns begin on their third rank, and castling and en passant capturing are not permitted.

9. června 2009, 15:58:32

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Subjekt: Re: Protected Chess

Změněno uživatelem Herlock Sholmes (9. června 2009, 15:59:41)

talen314: the whole idea looks interesting, but I see some inconsequences ... you say " Queen- Moves like a Queen if unprotected by a friendly piece" and " Pawn - Moves like a Chess pawn if protected by a friendly piece" ... I think there too many things to remember, at least at the beginning of learning this game ... and why pawn's ability to move differs from queen's ? The other thing is knight-bishops swaps ... I would expect something more original than that ... or, why Queen moves only diagonally if protected ?

I understand that the author has the righ to create anything ... but be prepared for questioning ... it's only for the good ...

Don't take me wrong, I like the idea of protected/unprotected pieces and changing their behaviour ... but I think there should be more uniform (easier) way of assigning new tasks for pieces ... the beauty of new chess variant is not in more elaborate and complicated rules but in depth of the game itself that is the result of ... yes, simple rules ... those who would judge your variant will look at the elegance and balance ... elegance refers to the simplicity and beauty of rules and balance to the internal relationships among different pieces and phases of the game ...

ok, now I stop and will not try to be too smart ... (because I am losing elegance and balance, lol)

Andy.

9. června 2009, 14:32:00