reza: That shows the weakness of ELO ratings in Backgammon. They were designed for chess.

If you are within 400 points of somebody in bg, it's an even up 8 point "wager". The top players are within that window of her.

I see many people noticed things like that, me too in http://brainking.com/en/ReadBug?bgi=451 May be some solutions for Fencer how to solve this should be the result.

Pedro, chessmec, Walter: "I am strictly against any resetting of the BKRs.", "ACK", "I'm with you on this. Why reset them?"

I'm surprised by such a black and white sentiments. Can you not see the usefulness in any of the instances given? Surely the Kingpin1 (at #21) (because molotov now resolving itself) and 515484 cases have some merit? And what about that cheat that grenv pointed out? You want all these guys to remain where they are? They will be stuck at the top of those lists forever.

Pedro: From the formula that you've given it's quite apparent that the rating is indeed the average from all matches played (although the formula page uses the term tournaments while BK actually counts matches). Do the maths with a win against 2100 and three losses against 2300 - you say it should be around 2500. The formula, as I calculate it, produces 1975.

ProvisionalRating = (RatingSoFar x NumGamesPlayedSoFar + OpponentsRating +/- 400) / NewNumberOfGamesPlayed.

The calculation is done after each individual match:
(0000 x 0 + 2100 + 400) / 1 = 2500
(2500 x 1 + 2200 - 400) / 2 = 4300 / 2 = 2150
(2150 x 2 + 2200 - 400) / 3 = 6100 / 3 = 2033
(2033 x 3 + 2200 - 400) / 4 = 7900 / 4 = 1975

The final result is the same as adding them up and taking the average at the end:
(0 + 2100 + 400 + (2200 - 400) x 3) / 4 = 1975

Those three losses matter. It's common sense, too. What use is a formula where the first match result is a major factor and the next 24 are trivial?

grenv: According to the formula the first 25 games are averaged in this way.

Rex Nihilo: molotov for playing. I think I'll invite her again. Lol, you've certainly got your work cut out (at move 4), but as you say, early days. ;-) Good luck to you both.

Reza: That's a tough break. As you say, you've got to take your lumps and learn the lesson until there's that other condition for protection. ;-) Feature request Perhaps the No Unrated players could have an accompanying No provisional players.


Edited to add
Here's the calculation for molotov's backgammon rating:

Date ended ..... Opponent....... Them --> Contribution to molotov
28th Sep 04 .... bobbobby62 .... 2045 --> 2445
29th Sep 04 .... HEATHER ....... 1914 --> 2314
15th Oct 04 .... sko ............... 2364 --> 2764
15th Oct 04 .... taikoki .......... 2208 --> 2608
17th Oct 04 .... Rex Nihilo ...... 2479 --> 2879
.2nd Feb 05 .... Rex Nihilo ...... 2592 --> 2992

Total = 16002
Average = 16002 / 6 = 2667

The opponent's ratings were taken from their rating graph for the day that the game ended (which is presumably the value used) but as it's not possible to pinpoint actual games one or more of my figures may be wrong. And indeed:

Molotov's actual rating is 2696, so the calculation's in the right area.

grenv: May be inactivity should result in some proportional leveling up to starting rating point each time period.
Lets say 1500 is the middle:
Then for example
1000 -> 1050 +50
2000 -> 1950 -50
1500 -> 1500 =0
1750 -> 1725 -25
1250 -> 1275 +25 etc or some nonlinear

With addition the less player is playing the more rating could fluctuate and after more inactivity turn to provisional rating, best would be RD coefficient which is used on some online chess servers.

I would love to have the system automatically send me to the next game when my main screen refreshes. Or even an option to do so. That is, when the main screen refreshes, if there is a game that is my turn, I will be sent to that game rather than the main page.

This would also reduce network load on main page refreshes.

fungame: That seems pretty good, though I think the middle is 1300? I can't remember why I think that though.

grenv: 1300 is the starting point.

However, I disagree with ratings being changed by inactivity, as then they would be less representative of skill.

BuilderQ: It was just an example, it could be less radical and I didn't define the time period, it could be in one year or so.. 1500 was example too, easier to count, so better for showing the idea.

May be full rating wipe prior to such changes like rating formula, too, but I bet many will disagree

In my opinion it would be better to show the rows in Chinese chess beginning from 1 to 10 and not from 0-9 (and changing the notation).

What do you think?

chessmec: I am just following the official notation rules for this game. Have a look at Shogi notation, it's even more changed.

chessmec: Not important for me. Only my tuppence of course ;-))

Fencer: but read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiangqi#Notation

I see the red (1) next to Message box and go read it. I'd like to reply but know I don't have time right now, so I continue with whatever else. Then I forget that I wanted to reply and the communication breaks down.

Some might say, "Well just stick a note in your Notepad" but checking the Notepad is an easily forgotten thing too, lol.

It would be nice to be able to flag a message as For attention, or something like that, and have the count added next to Main page's Message box text too (perhaps in bright blue?). That way there's no forgetting these outstanding message replies.

playBunny: Oh.. we get that feature as a rook.. You must not get it as a wittle horsie.. bummer

We do???

rod03801: hahaha... Shhhhhhh!!! LOL

ScarletRose: Really? You get to mark messages after they've been read? And see them on the main page??

Awwww. Not fair!! Stomps around on his wittle hoofies and shows what makes a knight a knight! .

playBunny: aha!!! yes.. should have known to expect that due to the horsie..
Pee EWWWwwwEee!!

http://home.arcor.de/tinnitusforum/b/chess04.gif

Can there be an option to hide the game notation or something? For longer games and slow connections, it makes the page take ages to load, puts unnecessary strain on the server and makes my bandwith quota go away faster...
I'm thinking of games like Anti-BG, where the game notation can represent more than half of the page source code.

Then again I can see the usefulness of displaying the last few moves to help you quickly review the last moves. So, instead of hiding it entirelly, maybe just display the last 5 moves or so and a link to show the rest of the notation, if wanted...

Anyway, the idea has been thrown to the arena, do with it as you see fit ;)

pauloaguia: This game, for example?
Of course you are right. I will do something with it.

Fencer: Thanks, and that's a preety good example, yeah ;)

Fencer: pffttt incredibleeeeeeee

Grenv:
not to mention this moron, who not only used this tactic, but cheated by playing himself to guarantee winning.

Oh really? And i thought he is a very good player.....I invited him to some games but no answer.....And how do you know he has played with himself.....? This is serious....

Agreed! I propose subtracting 50 points for every month of inactivity in a particular game type.

Nah, this is not fair at all......
Also the rating showing their superiority on the game will be always there, floating in the air, even if it's hidden or decreased. It doesn't matter if Fencer hide it or reduce it. The truth will be that they will have that rating. And why we should care if they have many years to play......? We shouldn't......


Pedro Martinez:
If you have no BKR and play four games with the same opponent with a BKR of, say, 2300, and you win the first game and lose the following three, your prov. rating would be 2500+.But if you lose the first and win the other three games, your BKR will not be that high. I bet it would even be under 2000.

I don't think this is true.....If it is, then this is a most serious flaw on BKR system.....


Reza:
I hadn't noticed that before the 5th move or I'd have deleted the game.

Relax, you should become less BKR-addicted........Enjoy the games.........!


PlayBunny:

I believe Molotov has any right to play 2 games, 3 games, 6 games and stay there forever!
We also don't have any right at all compaining about her, for doing that......
She can compain as well for you for playing many games instead of staying on a specific number....
She wants to stay at 6 games. No problem for me.......I don't see any problem?
Do you have any problems with number 6.....? 6 is the first perfect number! It's not a bad number aftar all........


And about reseting the rating in a specific type of game. Well, "reseting the rating" is too general. For example if Fencer allows that statement to be true, then with the current BKR's !!!!!!!_____awful_____!!!!!!! way of handling and establishing an initial rating, anyone who is not satisfied with his initial BKR on his first 4 games, he would simply reset it.....! Also he could do it any time he is not happy with his results.
The only thing i think is worth looking, is to be able to reset ALL the rating you have so far and start from the beginning.....

Also a nice idea is to be able to reset all loses you had so far....That would make anyone happy and i don't think there would be many that will complain.
So if most users of Brainking agree, and they will, then Fencer should understand that in the democratic world we live, he should listen the big crowd and offer this happiness.....!

Fencer: Wow.....

Recently RSS capability has been added to the DB's.
Maybe it could be added to the BugTracker as well? It would help people monitor bugs they could be interested in following up on without having to post in them to receive mail notifications or adding them to the bookmarks...

Chessmaster1000: babareza = amirh. He admitted it to me, saying "I am trying to break the ratings record". Also babarezas name is strikingly similar so it's pretty obvious.

Look at the games between the 2. All resigned by Amirh at the same time and all private.

The fact that we can't delete both players from the ratings list is frankly dissappointing. Even if it means eliminating all games involving those players and the resulting change in other players' ratings.

grenv: In my opinion it must not be too difficult for programming an impossibility to play rated games against ourself. A simple query at the players database could compare the real names behind a nicknames: if equal and rated: stop!

Spirou: That would require people creating multiple accounts to use the same real name in both of them - which is doubtfull will happen very often ;)

Easy, guys. I am preparing an improved system of charts and ratings, which will 1) remove inactive players from charts, 2) remove marked cheaters from charts, 3) remove the useless 2700 max value for ratings. When it's done, all BKRs will be recalculated from the beginning.

pauloaguia: I thought that was the case .

Fencer: Ok, ok, noted

pauloaguia: I think so slowly! I disagree, "my system" stops also when the nicknames are the same.

Well, "easy guys", keep cool and let see what will happens :-)

Fencer: Hey, that's great, and a big chunk of work, too. Is it in design or implementation or testing stage? If it's in design, is there any way that we can know more of the details and have a debate about the pros and cons?


Chessmaster1000: The babareza and amirh cheating was mentioned on the Backgammon board ages ago and was very obvious just by looking at the games and profiles (link supplied by grenv below). And in my long answer below I gave two full examples of how BK does the provisional rating. There is no flaw, serious or otherwise. ;-P (except of course, harp, harp, that it's not suitable for backgammon, ). Lol. You ought to do your research George. Tut, tut.

As for rights, well that's a big topic for the Philosophy board, but if molotov has the right to play 6 and stop (which right she has) then anybody else has the right to complain about it. Rights don't exist per se, they are granted by the society. In this case it's Fencer's and he's just declared his intention to alter the rights of inactive player's.

Why should people care about these ratings issues? It's not a question of shoulds. It's just that some do and that as reasonable as that some don't! It's another, optional, part of the fun. No problem for you, 'cos you don't care, although your profile hints otherwise, eh Mr 2700?. Hee hee [Stands aside while everyone charges for George's profile. Btw. while you're there, so checkout that illusion link, it's excellent.]

just make all my BKR's 2700 and we'll call it even

It would be good to see count of running plays (perhaps near the BKRs).

Has anybody asked for a Message box search facility yet? It would be nice if the same control appeared on both the Inbox and Outbox pages and had a three radiobuttons: Inbox, Outbox and Both.

TC: If you mean number of started games then I vote for that too. It would be nice if it could show the Player-to-move and Opponent-to-move counts separately, perhaps in the X/Y form.

It would be nice if lightly shaded backgrounds were used in the Finished Games summary in the Members' profiles. This would be by game group rather than one for each game. A very light yellow for all the Backgammon games, for instance, and perhaps blue for Chess, green for the Line games, or whatever. It would be a help when looking for a particular game and would also give a see-at-a-glance indication of what flavour icecream that person plays, as it were. ;-)

playBunny: I would like to see a persons game of choice when pulling up their pro instead having to look at finished games. It would come in handy when inviting people to a tournament or even to a single game.

There doesn't seem to be an error reporting board, so this board seems to be the logical place to put this

1. When my opponent moves a rook in Chinese Chess, the blue outlines don't show around the starting or ending square

2. I just recived a message in both English and French when losing a Cylinder Chess game.

M132T003C:
There doesn't seem to be an error reporting board

Try BugTracker

M132T003C: Hi, welcome to BrainKing. On the menu there's an item called Bug Tracker which is the best place, although for Japanese Chess and Chinese Chess, the discussion boards for those games is a good place too as they have only just been released and this is the bug hunting phase. Fencer is active in many boards but especially those two at the moment.

Pedro Martínez, playBunny: Ah, I didn't see that, sorry. I would delete my post but I don't have that ability.

THANKS TO:

rod03801
MidnightMcMedic
red dragon

For keeping us on track and donating your time to help BK remain the BEST on the Internet.

Thanks Clay, little things like that really do help. :D

Fencer: since I obviously misunderstood the implementation of the Fischer clock here, would it be possible to implement a setup modelled on the function of standard chess clock?

That is: have each player allocated a TOTAL time in days/hours.
Only one counter decrements at a time, the one for the player who has to move.
The clock for white starts at the creation of the game, or maybe not, the counters may start when white makes the first move.
Maybe also implement a Fischer increment for this model.

rabbitoid: That setup is one of the many possible with Fischer clock. Just set it to <TOTAL_TIME_PER_PLAYER> / 0 (no bonus) / <anything>

pauloaguia: Well, no.

First, you can't set the 3rd parameter to lower than the 1st (I tried. it lets you specify it, but when the game shows up the 3rd parameter is again equal to the 1st)

And then, as it is implemented, it's not total time per player, but as before, time for this move. Unless I misunderstand again?

Marfitalu: I try to condense: seems unclear for everybody

rabbitoid: pauloaguia is right. When the second parameter [bonus] is set to zero, the third parameter [limit] can be set to anything because it will never be used. And you have the standard chess clock as you wanted to, with the time for the whole game for each player [the first parameter].

I would like to see the different Espionage variants also without the volcanoes. This makes the game much more dynamic! :)