Internetchess can be differentiated in "livechess" and "turnbased chess".

In "livechess" you play with your opponent one game only, both players must be online,there are no breaks,mostly short time limits (5 ,15,60 minutes,two hours for the whole game): both players play "synchron"!
It is the same as in OTB games:Helps and aids are forbidden. At livechessservers like "playchess.com" (the Fritzserver) players will disqualified automatically if they use software.Every day if you play there you can see such messages in the display.There can control it!

But in "turnbased chess" you play many games,both players must not be online at the same time,there are breaks of sometimes several days,the time limits are in days and not in minutes or in hours : the players play "asynchron".
That means we have here a kind of correspondence (server)chess (beside cards,fax,email) and in correspondence chess a l l kind of helps and aids are allowed.All strong correspondence chess players worldwide use programs to analyze their games.Look at the homepage of the ICCF http://www.iccf.com/
Do you find there any prohibitions? (because prohibitions make only sense if you have possibilities of a control)
The chances are now equal again,the question is only : how good can a player work with these helps?

at the moment i can play gothic chess only with a "virtual" board - and i will soon order a board and figures from ed. a gothic chess program is less interesting for me - more interesting would be a database (such as chessbase - maybe gothicchessbase). Does everyone know one? Or is there no database out?
Interesting would be a PGNviewer for gothic chess so thatgames gan be comfortable replayed with comments on the web. Is there anything? If not it would be a nice project for me when i have time for that.

You can use the freeware MAX .(Misc/dowloads)
But unfortunately the PGN ist not compatible with the BK-PGN:

Max-PGN

1. h2-h4 e7-e5 2. i2-i3 d7-d6 3. Bh1-i2 Ni8-h6 4. Bi2xc8 Qd8xc8
5. Ag1-h3 f7-f5 6. Ce1-f3 Ag8-e6 7. e2-e4 f5-f4 8. Ah3xe6 Ce8xe6
9. Ni1-h3 *

BK-PGN

1. h4 e5 2. i3 d6 3. Bi2 Nh6 4. Bxc8 Qxc8 5. Ah3 f5 6. Cf3 Ae6 7. e4 f4 8. Axe6+ Cxe6 9. Nh3 *

A PGN-viewer for BK 8x10 games would be great!

The ICCF rules refer us to FIDE rules. It just defines time controle, move transmission,...
So the EE101-12.2 rule of FIDE is as valid as the rule of how knight moves.

12.2 During play the players are forbidden to make use of any notes, sources of information, advice, ...

Also a tournament director's job is to decide about lying and CHEATING. If any help is OK so what is cheating?

Fariborz,such an important fact would be mentioned separately!.We have had this discussion often at our German serverchesspage (www.remoteschach.de),where some ICCF-functionaries are present often.
The German correspondence chess federation (member of ICCF)has also explained it on his webpage http://www.bdf-fernschachbund.de/

So they should mention it separately in their rules that what is cheating what is not.
Now anybody who doesn't find it in their rules should search in FIDE rules!
I see it against their principle philosophy (Amici Sumus ) , if I play with someone who I think dosen't use a chess engine but he does.
Unfortuanetly I don't know German :(
I can't find a rule about that on brainking also.

It is very simple : If there is nothing mentioned,there is nothing forbidden.
And I think using helps correlates with the sense of correspondence chess. The using of engines is one of these helps (beside books,common analyzing in the chessclub and databases).The last decision has always the player himself,he must decide what is a good or a bad advice.Surely he can describe only the moves from a book or a chessengine.But I think most players analyze with these helps and to win against a strong correspondence chess player you need more..
Btw,has it sense to forbid someting,what you cannot control and to make the most players to cheaters? You cannot look in their living room.

cheers! please flame about cheating and so on not at this board ... i think we cannot solve this problem and when it should be discussed, then not here, PLEASE!

My answer as to why I play turn based and not live is that I do not own a computer and must use The public libraries computer. The only allow us 30-60 minutes on it;Monday-Saturaday. Otherwise, I would be happy to play live games on the computer. I do play live games at my 2 chess clubs and with several friends I have;these are over the board games. Thank You!

Ed also played a game in the early days of gothic chess in which he sacrificed both his Archbishop and Chancellor and still managed to checkmate his opponant(not sure;but I believe the opponant was Ed Bittle;maybe Mr. Trice can furnish more acurate information on this.) I think this game was played in 2000.

This game was in one of the early Gothic Chess Review Magazines;I think July 2000;it was also an animated game on the the old Yahoo gothicchess.com website.

There is a difference between Server-based (e.g. brainking) and correspondence (e.g. ICCF) chess. If I play with someone under ICCF rules why can't I post/fax/email him 1.e5?
On brainking, server doesn't let me.
There is no mention of that on ICCF rules. NO , there is , it refers me to FIDE rules. FIDE rules explicitly mention how to move a pawn.
What about using a chess engine? why the rule 4.3 is valid but 12.2 isn't?
I don't say there is a way to solve that problem. I just want to say if I use a chess engine in ICCF games , I'm a Cheater, acting against their principle philosophy.

Ok schachdmt, that was my last post about this :)
I left IECG.org because I don't like this kind of chess. And no way to solve it, but they are CHEATERS.

Have can I get copies?

I know you are a strong player from the games we played;so I believe you about your not needing outside help. But;what about weak players who play much better than their level of skill indicates they should;and they do so repeatedly.

Congrats to Matarilevich for winning the Joust!!
Well done! Thanks for everyone else for playing in the Tournament!
Joust at the Realm #3

I am still having trouble with my game boards;any other suggestions.

Thank you

In my earlier message about Mr. Trice's game in which he had a mating combination using sacrifices of both his Archbishop and Chancellor to obtain mate;his opponant was Mark Bittle,not Ed Bittle. It is a remarkable game and was a pleasure to watch unfold;I only wish that I still had a copy of its moves to play over and enjoy once more.

http://www.chessville.com/GothicChess/TacticalArtwork.htm

Here you go

http://www.gothicchess.org/game2.html

Here is the full game and animated

The gothic chess computer tournament starts tommorow.

http://www.gothicchess.org/world_championship.html

Thanks

I meant to ad,I already found this game with Mr. Trice's help.

Do you people discuss games or something else? if you discuss games I'll use this board;if not,I will not use it.

I thought janus was german for wolf;am I wrong?

tedbarber ... there has at times been discussion hereon Janus Chess, but soon after Janus Chess was introduced on this site Fencer also implimented Gothic Chess which seems to have been played more. There has certainly been more discussion on the Gothic Chess boards than here.

You are quite welcome to raise any issues or discuss any games or strategies you would like to.

Cheers

WQ:)

Since no one seems to prefer discussing games, but prefers silly flamewars;I intend to join Mr. Trice and boycott this board.

What are you talking about tedbarber? You are the only person who has posted on this board for the past week!

Once Trice left the board, this board has now settled down very nicely. Hopefully some good Gothic talk can start again.

I guess we can welcome Ted to the paid members roster?

Do any of you play over the board gothic? I find when I take my set to the park (chess club there) and chess clubs is that most people prefer classic chess over gothic because gothic is something new. Some people can be coaxed into trying and they play a game or 2. Others are more enthusiatic about playing, but even if they are good chess players, they usually find it difficult to get used to the new pieces. I find it takes a few games to get the basic feel for the pieces.

Regular chess games are very good, but if I could play gothic games it would be even better.
I have had some experiences where at the park some people play and many others huddle around to watch, so there are some good experiences.

Do any of you have expereinces of trying to popularize the game?

shoot! I'd love to find a chess club,or a park setting where folks played chess.the only over the board games I get...is when my brother visits.

Okay,maybe I'll give it a new try.

I have taken my Gothic Board and peices to regular chess tournaments;and between rounds have had very little trouble getting other younger players to play;after I explained the differences. I also have taken it to our local chess clubs and gotten a few people to play. Also,about 4 or 5 of us meet regularly at each others houses and every 3 or 4 days just to play Gothic Chess. We are beginning to get others interested to.

Wolf is the German word for wolf (it's pronounced volf).

Googled "Janus" and came up with some interesting results.

I expect the Janus of Chess variety is reference back to the Roman god of gates ... more can be read here

wikipedia.org is the biggest encyclopedia on this planet. In 100 languages it offers high quality of information, at least in the English and German version which are already extremly popular. You yourself can edit information whenever you want, you don´t even need an account. So far Gothic Chess is included at least in the Portuguese, English and German version. Looking forward for French, Czech and Russian for example. ;-)

is the double faced god and our piece got his name because of his two faces - knight an bishop.

Janus is also a nickname of the bad guy from James Bond's movie "Goldeneye" :-D

very cleverly named game..unlike other variants here!

After 5 moves for each side. With ChessV for example. So, it´s somehow better to see GC as not so strong protected, but the best Capablana variant with Gothic Vortex as the by far strongest engine.

netguru. I posted those very moves awhile back. Though the starting position for Bird's Chess is a matter of contention as to where the Guard and Equerry are placed at the start of the game. I used the version from the Chess Variants web page, which Ed Trice dubbed "Wrong Bird's Chess". Assuming you're using Ed's set up for Bird's Chess, I thought it would take 7 moves to transpose the game into Gothic Chess. You say it's five? It has been my assertion about the game being a subset of the other. It was shortly after that post an immense flame war started. It also got some interesting conversation about both games going, so you'll have to wade through a lot different posts to see which apply to your interest. Starts October 14th.

Capablanca Chess was created about 50 years after Bird's Chess in the 1920's. I believe Bird made his game up in 1874. Gothic Chess in the late 1990's. To me, all are the same game. Same pieces, same rules. The starting position greatly effects the play at the beginning of the game, but after 15 or 20 moves it'd be hard to tell which game is which if you chanced upon a game in progress.

In ChessV Henry Bird´s Chess from 1874 uses RNBCKQABNR, I don´t know if this is the right setting. The program is not comparable to Gothic Vortex 1.2, but it is very worth a download anyway. Sign up for being informed about new versions of this many variants open source sofware from Greg Strong. SMIRF is rather new and was finished the last minutes before the tournament. The author still sees a lot of potential to improve it. I play only GC as variant, he is crazy about 10*8 FRC.

Here is the link for download:
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/chessv/ChessV_0_7_1.zip?download

Is the SMIRF program free to download, and if it is, where can i download?

It is 2 Euros (paypal) donation-ware on chessbox.de, it was developed out of just a 10*8 PGN-Editor, but it is an engine now, it participated in the GC championship. With 8*8 only it is free.

The author speaks English.

rescharn@gmx.net - somehow, he now only writes about an editor, but I myself had a beta version which could play some moves, maybe the offcial release will take some more weeks, I know that he is working on it. Sorry for the la-la-info ;-)

Chess V is a nice program, thanks for giving link

Yes, it already can play matches, but (like the participating engine) it still is a beta being
a crippled shareware version (2 euros via paypal), which might be fully enabled by purchasing keys. But Gothic Chess enabling keys still are not distributed, because of
some things have to be cleared before. See at:
http://www.chessbox.de/beta.html
at the "Project Chronicle" under 2004-Sep-29. The current version is 0.6.2.

Smirf is able to play a lot of 10x8 variants like Capablanca Random Chess
(with over 20000 starting arrays), Bird's array (very interesting, remark by editor), Capablanca's array,
Carrera's array and whatever you will setup yourself by hand. But, please
do not forget, it is also covering normal chess, Fischer Random Chess and
could overmore play with all kind of shuffled positions.

Hi all,

please do not confuse the FullChess Editor (which is not playing any chess) with the well playing Smirf beta version. Of course it is intended to be sold as shareware, but there is no pricing published yet. I have to think it over. So please do not use the 2 Dollar/Euro PayPal button, which is intended for the FullChess Editor, but please email me directly (you will find a valid email address e.g. at the imprint of www.chessbox.com.

Regards, Reinhard.