A game option for No Volcanos would be superb. They block up the game and make attack very difficult.

Im aware of the volcanos permutations but why am i only seeing 4 different setups?

Fencer, you are AWESOME!!

Mahalo (Hawaiian thanks),
Thad

I had to look up the proper spelling for the plural of 'volcano' since I've used it two different ways here myself! Looks like both 'volcanos' and 'volcanoes' are both acceptable, at least according to dictionary.com. ;-)

The volcanos are always placed symetrically so that each player has them in the same positions. There are 10 squares in which they can be placed (in any of the ten squares in the row on 'your' half of the board farthest from the edge). The formula for the number of ways to choose two squares out of ten is 10!/(10-2)!x2! = 10x9/2 = 45 ways.

does anyoe know abou thow many different volcano setups there are? in each version? i know ive had all 4 in a block in the center and have had them blocking thre whole center up down up down... and have had an off set on the sieds with the middle.. any others? i think that there should be soem other volcano setups.there are almsot infinite possiblities.

Fixed.

I think the volcanoes are missing in archived games.

Good point, but for casual play against different opponents, it can be a great feature. Also, the problem you mention exists now the way things are. Also, I usually load a saved board and change just a couple of things. Makes it different enough to keep my opponents guessing without making me start from scratch each time. ;-)

well i have a loaded answer for that one! Yes its great feature BUT it is not wise to use teh same board more than once! If your opponent does any kind of studying game positions (which he/she should) than your set up will soon be found out and you will be crushed!

Ok, then is anyone else interested in seeing this added as a new feature too? ;-)

No, saved boards only apply and can only be used for the variant they were set up for.

Shouldn't we be able to save boards in both Fast Espionage and regular Espionage and use them in either game? I couldn't figure out how to do it if you can.

Reading through all posts, we have the following subjects mentioned (no particular order):

1. Unfair advantage issue with the non random placement of volcanos in tournaments (
2. Difficulty of viewing pieces due to smallness of the size of the rank numbers
3. A wish for some sort of tally of pieces captured. Several different opinions there
4. Wish for a change on the way moves are notated,so the "switch" would be possible (one for, one against so far)
5. No Volcanos. Perhaps another variation

I think all of the above do influence the way the game is played. I pesent this recap so people can voice their opinion on items on the list above or add to it. Some tally can be kept and then presented to Fencer. Some more "traffic" may be needed on this discussion board, before any requestsare "officialy" presented.

Reading through all posts, we have the following subjects mentioned (no particular order):

1. Unfair advantage issue with the non random placement of volcanos in tournaments (
2. Difficulty of viewing pieces due to smallness of the size of the rank numbers
3. A wish for some sort of tally of pieces captured. Several different opinions there
4. Wish for a change on the way moves are notated,so the "switch" would be possible (one for, one against so far)
5.

Good point.
In retrospect, my comment "does not make much difference to the game in the long run" was made with the full version in mind.
From playing a similar small version on another site, I will agree that advance knowledge of the volcano placement, could at times give too much of an advantage on the small version. It would be allowing that person the chance to not only establish position within the opponents territory, but also restrict the opponents ability for movement. Very important in the mini, ...err, small version.

Well I've noticed mostly in the small espionage game, the volcanos can easly block a couple of vital pieces at the start of the game - so knowing where the volcanos are can help you not place pieces right behind them - easly giving an advantage to that person.

If it could be something that could be corrected, that would be good. But wanted to mention it here so all have the same oppertunity to see the volcanos.

If what you say is accurate and if only one of two opponents knows about it, it could then give a mobility advantage at the early stages of the game to the one that knows about the setup. While on one hand I believe that such a situation should be corrected, on the other hand I think that it does not make much difference to the game in the long run.

I agree that the numbers, and more so with the black pieces, are hard to see. On a quick glance a 4 and a 1 look the same.

This game would be better if there were no volcanoes, and if the numbers were bigger, thus easier to see.

thank you BBW

Not sure if it is fair, but I thought I would mention it here so all have the same oppertunity.

But I've noticed that games in the same tournament all have the volcanos set in the same position, so if another 2 people already have their board set up, you can go and look at their game to see how your board will be setup.

for many years thsi "switch" move has been a thorwn in my side. But it has won me many games! I have accepted it as a part of the game. there is a site which plays this game only www.deepmachines.com/bigbattle where you never knwo the value of a piece every thing is done blindly. And believe me it definietly is flawed. I think that the reason they do thsi is to prevent pieces from being suicided and to proect your army more. In real war that would be considered savage. but i think that were gettgin off the subject. In my note taking i wouyld track both pieces for the rest of the game such as A1 and B2 and follow them around and maybe throw a 5 in front of it and i kknow that my ?5? is safe b/c it was a +3.

With the move notations listing origin and destination on all moves, it eliminates one important type of move, found on variations of this game elsewhere. It is the ability to play the "switch"
Say the relative value of one important piece has been determined by your opponent ( not revealed, just determined. Example your 4 was blindly attacked by a 3. Opponent lost a 3 , and now has determined the value of your piece at 4 or greater)
I am not too good in describing how it is done, however here it is:
In a 4 square area, A1,A2,B1,B2, you have the one piece on one corner( say a1) and the other at the opposite corner( B2)(both must be pieces not revealed by a spy). One turn passes where these do not move, then each piece moves to one of the other corners. Now the opponent is not sure where the piece has moved to.


As I said, the move notation given, unfortunately eliminates the ability to do this.
I would like to suggest that the notation be simplified so that the "switch" may become possible.

Lomeinka

It would be nice to see the exact list of pieces for small Espionage. I know we start with 20 guys, but it wold be nice to have them listed. That way, in the middle of a game, I could just click on the rules link to recall what I started with!!

Also, we really need a captured pieces section like in chess.

Thanks,
Thad

well i have lots of experience at this game thats all.i made many mistakes in my day.

Is this why I am losing against you, nothingness ? lol

remember to take notes after every move , it would be better for the notes to be atop the game board forr easy access. i do notes as follows. Captured pieces: 1,1,2,2,4,4,S,etc.... i will also do as follows -3, tis means that i attacked with a 3 and beat teh ? piece! or ill type +2 that means he attacked me with a piece greater than or equal to my 2. the notes are to be used instead of the captured pieces. Its part of the thinking process not to know what has been captured.

I aggree. Pieces captured should be shown on the sides.

Yes, it seems to do that sometimes...i'm not quite sure why or when... :-)

<I think that the piece attacked should change to show the minimum value
e.g if I attack and lose with a 2 I should see >2 on the piece.

:)

The "less than" character at the beginning was added by the editor ???

We need taken/defeated pieces at the side. I can never remember what value piece I used for an attack. Half the time I can't even remember the last move I made!

No, otherwise I could use my 1's and 2's as spies by attacking pieces to see there value. The best you know is that the piece you attacked was higher than you or a bomb.

After I attack an opponent's piece and lose, shouldn't I know the rank of that piece? Shouldn't the "?" be relplaced by the piece's actual value?

Regardless you should be able to attack any piece. That is not the same as taking it. After your move you will find out the result of the attacks.

I think you are right as well. I have not gotten that far in my game, but it is not right according to the rules :oD

No, I think you're right, thats what the rules say. I didn't take the piece, but the computer would have allowed it.

could be a bug....the rules page says a spy can only take another spy or sapper......'course i could be wrong :)

I seem to be able to take a number 1 soldier with a spy - thats not right is it?

never mind... I just got the answer to my question :)
(they can't)

So when it says "In standard Espionage, a player makes a move with two different pieces per turn" does it mean that the same piece can't be moved twice in the same turn?