mckinley: No it was not. You are seriously misinformed if you believe that to be the case. It's been all over the news.

Bwild: And what is the DeViL? An entity or a description for some element of the human condition?

♥♫βaβyĢіґŁŁє♫♥:

(V): if you believe in God...you must believe in the Devil.
Iamon lyme: some branches of wicca is another religion that doesnt believe in God.

Übergeek 바둑이: Same with Zen... which I think compliments Christianity well. It helps bring you back to the basics.. fixing yourself instead of blaming some fictional entity like the DeViL.... There is no personal responsibility in such blaming... just excuses.

The Col: Quebec sounds like Scotland and Wales. They've both got some form of own government, but are still tied to the UK.

Iamon lyme: I have no bitter catholic school memories, it was a great school. Being a Christian does not mean you cannot be critical of your own religion.

... Especially dogmatic Christian values based on inaccurate translation and/or interpretation... being pushed on others. That seems totally counter to the aspect laid down by God of free will.

Artful Dodger:

> Obama was boring tonight. Long on promises and short on delivering.

I thought both Obama and Romney are boring. Both are really long on promises and incapable of delivering on anything. This election (like all elections in living memory) is a choice between mediocre and mediocre-er. That is the curse of modern politics. Candidates come in promising the world and screaming of change, only to face the reality that representative democracy is incapable of improvement or change. Representative democracy will continue to be a failure as long as the rich can buy power with their money, and in capitalism the rich buy power so that they can make themselves richer. It is why democracy and capitalism go together so well!

Iamon lyme:

> By the way, what do you mean by religious? What is a 'religious' atheist, and how is he different from other atheists?

Some atheists come from a religious background, the most common being Buddhism. A good example is Stephen Batchelor who was ordained as a Buddhist monk and who later arrived at the conclusion that there is no god. He is still a Buddhist, and he can be both a Buddhist and an Atheist because Buddhism is a non-theistic religion (that is, a religion without a god.)

With respect to atheists and aliens, I imagine that it depends on the person. Those who believe in aliens might assume that aliens could be more intelligent than humans. I am an atheists who will believe in aliens only on the day when I actually see them. In the meantime, they make nothing more than nice materials for movies and books. We can't even prove that there is life outside this planet. It is a big leap from there to superintelligent aliens. Of course, there could be aliens and they all turn out to be really stupid, or at least as stupid as we humans can be.

Iamon lyme: there is one other word, Democrat

Bwild: How is it ignorant to use a word that describes how many people define themselves? It's the only word I know of that means someone who does not believe in God's existence. If there is a better word for it then I would like to know. It's not a dirty word, it's just a word with a specific meaning.

When I was an atheist I had no problem being identified as someone who did not believe in a God, so I don't know why anyone else would have a problem with it. I don't see why it would bother anyone, but the fact is it does bother a lot of people... especially atheists... ???

Before your post showed up I thought about looking for a word in some other language that means the same thing, but unless you mean something other than what I understand the word to mean, it almost seems pointless to buffer it with a word no one is familiar with. I'd only be doing it to keep from offending the people who already don't mind being identified as not believing in God. Seriously, does that make any sense?

By the way, what do you mean by religious? What is a 'religious' atheist, and how is he different from other atheists?

Iamon lyme: that seems a bit ignorant. there are many forms of atheist..some religious.

Atheists believe the only possible intelligence higher than our own can only be found in an alien race from outer space... getting in our face, and making earth their place to set up base, to give chase to other aliens who might be considering earth for themselves... good intentions notwithstanding.

rod03801: Nope. I was expecting a response but I didn't see it coming from you. Apparently my mentalist abilities are way off today. I was actually waiting for someone else so I could tell him that it's not him, because I can't picture him in a plaid skirt and knee high socks... and even if I could I wouldn't want to. lol

And by the way, I wasn't thinking of you as an atheist either. An atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God, doesn't believe in his existence. A distaste for the Bible doesn't automatically make you an atheist. I avoided cracking open a Bible, any Bible, for a long time. And one big difference between my conversion and CS Lewis is I've never been able to entirely shake off that "mouse searching for the cat" feeling. CS Lewis describes it as finally surrendering to it. But the way I was raised doesn't allow for surrender, and can be summed up in a line from the movie Galaxy Quest... "Never give up, never surrender!"

Iamon lyme: If you mean me, you couldn't be more wrong. (and you may not, but just in case) I was brought up Baptist. And had very good experiences with the members of my church.
You won't be surprised (if you know me at all) that I will not get into my personal reasons for deciding that organized religion is not for me. Not on a discussion board on the internet, with total strangers. Not my style. Generally

And because of some of the passions on this board, I feel forced to point out yet again, that I'm also NOT Atheist, because some seem to assume that my .... hmm I can't find the right word right now, but my distaste for the bible, means I must be some godless horrible person.

I just do NOT believe what you believe. That's all.

(V): [Now it seems in the US that the Bible is being used to decide policy and or allegiances.]

It doesn't seem that way to me, but for someone who denounces religion you seem strangely preoccupied with religious matters. I was encouraged to not believe in God while I was growing up, so I honestly cannot relate to anyone who harbors bitter catholic school memories. I was so firmly rooted in atheism I can honestly say I had no reaction at all towards people who believed in God... it just wasn't something I could relate to one way or the other.

Several years ago I spoke to someone from my home town who also went to catholic school, until he entered public high school. He knew that I had become a Christian, but was surprised that I was still a Christian. And I mean genuinely surprised. He said, "You still believe in that?" I could tell he didn't mean it as a put down, but I was surprised that he was surprised.

Anyway, I've seen the same kind bitterness towards religion you have in other people who've attended catholic schools. In fact, it's become so obvious to me that I believe I've spotted at least one other person at this board who fits that profile.

(V): Dalton McGuinty is a first class idiot , how he got re elected is beyond me when you consider his last term.I live in the center of Toronto , a liberal an socialist stronghold.I don't even think our gay community is this hardline , you can't legislate opinion , it must be developed through intelligent discussion and exposure.I can only hope the Conservative party finally reclaims Ontario again, but sadly our best candidate John Tory (snappy name for a conservative) will not run again.As far as Quebec goes, they are nothing but a financial drain on the rest of Canada, threatening to separate whenever they don't get their way.I say "don't let the door hit you on the way out"

EXAMPLE FROM QUEBEC

Quebec’s Ministry of Education is forcing all students in the province, whether in private or public school, to take a mandatory course in ‘moral relativism’, euphemistically named Ethics and Religious Culture. It teaches for instance, that all religions and ethical choices are equal. In an appeal process that is still ongoing, a Quebec Superior Court decision provided exemption for a private Catholic boys’ school, ruling that the government was "totalitarian" to impose its course on that school. The Quebec government has since appealed that decision to the Supreme court, at great cost to the families involved.
EXAMPLES FROM ONTARIO

Premier Dalton McGuinty has rolled out implementation of his gay equity policy for the 2011 school year. It is called the Equity and Inclusive Education Strategy" (EIES) and targets both Catholic and public schools. The EIES uses the classroom as a vehicle to indoctrinate students into total acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle, a controversial idea which attacks the religious beliefs that the majority of parents, especially new immigrants, try to instil in their kids at home. This represents an unconstitutional abuse of power, using state-sponsored propaganda to subvert parents’ rights over the moral education of their own kids. Dalton McGuinty also admitted at Toronto’s 2011 gay pride parade, that his government is aiming to change "attitudes" on homosexuality, a process he says "should begin in the home."

The role of government does not include setting children against the religious beliefs of their parents. Yet, below are a few examples from McGuinty’s EIE government documents which illustrate this is precisely what’s happening. McGuinty’s EIE directive recommends that all schools should:

celebrate the Gay Pride Parade as "equity-related work"
set up openly homosexual student clubs know as ‘Gay-Straight Alliances’ (GSAs)
use texts written by gay/lesbian authors
help teachers to "modify personal beliefs"

The negative effects of this controversial directive have already been seen in the following examples:

The Toronto District School Board announced that it will no longer allow parents to opt-out their kids from gay-positive lessons, nor provide parental notification of such lessons, even if requested. Teachers will be compelled to teach this material, even if it conflicts with their religious beliefs.
The Hamilton-Wentworth District School Board told a Christian parent that his request to be notified about gay-affirming lessons will not be accommodated, nor is he allowed to withdraw his kids. They said it would be "discriminatory" to honour his request.
Ontario’s Catholic bishops were bullied by government officials into allowing homosexual‘anti-bullying’ clubs in Catholic schools. These misguided clubs are set to begin September 2011. A member of the Bishop’s committee overseeing these clubs has already admitted that they are simply GSAs with a different name.

It seems the Arctic ice is at a strangely low level. Not good for the reflection of sunlight.

MEDIA ADVISORY


LEGAL PROCEEDINGS AGAINST SCHOOL BOARD SEEKS TO END
SUPPRESSION OF PARENTAL RIGHTS AND PROVIDE ACCOMODATION
FOR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS


WHAT:
Press conference

WHEN:
Monday September 10 9:00 AM

WHERE:
Queens Park, Toronto (in the Media Studio)

WHO:
1. Lou Iacobelli, Chairperson, The Parental Rights In Education Defense Fund
2. Parent/Applicant in the legal proceedings (to be named)
3. Albertos Polizogopoulos, Legal Counsel for the Applicant

WHY:
To announce legal proceedings commenced by a beleaguered parent against an Ontario public
school board which has continually refused to provide reasonable accommodation for his family’s
religious beliefs. The family has also suffered discrimination and been made to feel unwelcome.
Staff suggested that he and his children leave the Board and enroll elsewhere in a private school.

The parent has repeatedly requested that the elementary school attended by his two children
provide him with advance notice of any lessons, exercises or material to be viewed by his
children, which may conflict with his spiritual values as a practicing Christian. All his requests
over the past year and a half have been denied. He has been informed that, in the name of
“equity”, his parental rights and Christian beliefs must be denied.

The parent seeks nothing more than to be given advance notice so that he can either withdraw his
children before the lesson, or prepare his children in advance for what they may be taught.

About The Parental Rights In Education Defense Fund:

Our legal defense fund was formed after observing that parental rights, notably the right to raise and educate
children in a manner consistent with a family’s religious and moral beliefs, were being consistently
challenged. The Parental Rights In Education Defense Fund exists to help parents by assisting them in
obtaining legal counsel to defend their fundamental, inherent rights as the primary educators of their children.

The Col: I'd like to see him be a guest presenter on HIGNFY.

Especially after his reply to Ann Coulter and her stating he was gay... That he did say it, as "a polite excuse to explain why he was not hitting on her bony ass"

(V): That was the Chris Wallace interview.Clinton taught Democrats how to deal with the typical Republican attacks, some learned.Frankly I think he is now admired by many Republicans cuz he fights back

The Col: I saw him being interviewed by some guy from Fox who tried to rewrite history regarding Clinton and Bin Lady... He wasn't having it!!

Iamon lyme: We have no laws here that prevent religious people taking part in government, the laws that did come into power regarding the CoE were that they possessed no other foreign loyalties, such as to the Pope... That the Monarch was the head of state. An early Patriot test in times of many wars between England and various European countries.

Now it seems in the US that the Bible is being used to decide policy and or allegiances. Pretty much what happened back in 17th and 18th century UK. Can you see the similarity?

... It wouldn't be so bad if the interpretation and application of the Bible was true to the intent as stated by Christ, it seems though to be just a means to get people to blindly follow like they have been taught/scared into blindly following a version of God.

... A version.

(V): He has a 69% approval rating in the USA.
That's alot of Republicans in there.I don't think the fringe Republicans like the birthers are fans though

The Col: Clinton's speech was good. Very Good.

Iamon lyme: That's true. The dems are well known for their mysogony. The same is true of their racism. It's well cloaked. And notice how the pay lip service to Israel but cozy up to the Muslim Brotherhood?

mckinley: [Wasn't Clinton great last night?]

Of course he was. Clinton is great every night.

Artful Dodger: You have to give Bill credit for one thing though. He did manage to silence the feminists during his administration. and all he had to do to accomplish that was simply be himself.

Obama was boring tonight. Long on promises and short on delivering.

The Col: Don't get too excited about billy though. He is a serial rapist after all.

Iamon lyme: How stupid these liberals are. The don't blink at the dismembering of a baby for profit (by the millions) but cringe when a man or woman volunteers to fight and protect their country. The military have guns and can protect themselves. The unborn have the democrats who fight to keep it legal to kill them.

The Col: "Is this what you're talking about?"

That was a funny youtube clip, but no, that's not what I was talking about.

However it is funny whenever I see Republicans trying to explain something to a Democrat. On the one hand they really don't want to talk down to them as though they are talking to a 5 year old, but on the other hand they would like for the Democrats to understand what they are saying. It can be a difficult and often daunting task just to communicate even the simplest of messages. I don't envy Republican politicians one little bit... I wouldn't have the patience to deal with wanna be morons who refuse to understand even though they are able to. I know I'm supposed to suffer fools gladly, but I still haven't gotten there yet in my spiritual journey. Right now I can only pray that God gives me the strength to endure the nonsense I see at this board. Someday I may be able to just let it all slide off my back and continue to focus on what is important, and not be bothered by fools who think I can be distracted by anything that moves or makes noise, thereby losing my focus.

But anyway, no, that's not what I was talking about. What I was talking about is what I was talking about.

The Col: Think before you post. It might help. But I doubt it.

The Col: The draft ended in 1973, and if anyone has been sending teenagers off to war over the past 4 years it has been the Democrats. As for the sanctity of life, Democrats have shown extraordinary compassion for every known form of life other than their own. So it's entirely understandable that you would have trouble understanding some Republicans.

They are never shy to pontificate regarding sanctity of life, but they can't send teenagers off to war fast enough.

And remember, Obama is for partial birth abortion which is nothing less than infanticide. The baby is partially delivered then killed (brains sucked out after making a slit into the base of the baby's skull). Obama also voted against protecting new born babies that survived abortions. So in other words, Obama favors the deliberate killing of new born infants! When an abortion fails and the baby is born alive, the woman is NO LONGER PREGNANT! So her body is no longer affected by a pregnancy. The baby is fully separated from the "mother" and any decent person can see that. But Obama is just fine will killing innocent new born babies.

Iamon lyme: Well in their defense, they were for God and Jerusalem before they were against it before they were for it again (well sort of for it....they actually voted against the measure but the Chairman declared a 2/3's majority anyway (they even lie to their own party members).

Artful Dodger: [Did you watch the Dems convention where they were voting on putting the name "God" back into their platform?]

I misunderstood what I heard on the radio this morning. I thought the Dems were "voting" (if you can call it that) to leave out recognition of God and Jerusalem as the Capitol of Israel, so I was surprised to hear about the booing. Now it makes sense. I believe it was part of their platform 4 years ago, so I wonder what has changed between then and now? hmmmmm, I wonder....

Oh wait, I get it now. It changed!! You know, hope and change? They wanted to make some big changes, and hoped no one would catch on before the next election.

(V): [... Lest we forget the past and what has happened when in 'Christian' countries the church was the state.]

It wasn't forgotten here when we declared the state had to keep it's hands off the church. This was to insure there would be no state controlled religion as existed at that time in England. I don't know what your own country's documents say about that, but you are repeating a myth about a "separation" that doesn't exist in the consitution. In our document it was intended to keep the state from taking over religion and telling people how they must worship, not to keep religious people from participating in government. Do you really not see the difference?

mckinley: Clinton is always great but he majors in BS and gloss!

mckinley: Well ask the Dems. God was IN their platform and then they removed God and then last night they "voted" Him back in (in an obvious fraudulent vote). At least 1/2 of the liberal delegates BOOED the vote that allowed God back into the Democratic Platform (along with the acknowledgment that Jerusalem is the Capitol of Israel) (even though the Obama administration really doesn't accept Jerusalem as the Nation's Capital!!!

Iamon lyme: I can't remember if I saw the Benny Hill look alike last night or the night before. I think that may have been the night before. I'm not kidding, I thought I had tuned into the Benny Hill Show... that's right, now I remember, the real Benny Hill didn't show up until last night. LOL

Artful Dodger: I haven't been watching the convention. I didn't watch the Republican convention either. But I did happen to see Clint Eastwood begin to talk when channel surfing, so I watched that.

Last night I was channel surfing again and thought I saw Benny Hill in drag, but then realised it was someone speaking at the Democrat convention. From what I hear it was a genuine love fest last night... thrills running up both legs for some of the folks there. Any time I think I feel a thrill running up my leg it's usually a bug... and a thrill running down my leg is usually bad news.

mckinley: Nobody can touch his oratory skills.He surgically took apart the Republicans with the touch of a master surgeon.69% of the nation give him a favorable rating, so many Republicans also clearly like him.Can you imagine him debating Romney? it would be child's play what he would do to him.