fakarten:Hey thats a good idea

Fencer, when you make the new images needed for cloning backgammon (there can be more than 20 checkers on one point) could you put the number of checkers in the image as well? Something like this.

Double Choice Backgammon - each player has 2 sets of dice.
Triple Choice Backgammon - each player has 3 sets of dice.

Below - I'm explaining the triple choice.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

At the start of the game, each player has 3 sets of dice.

Each player rolls their 3 pairs, giving them 3 moves to choose from (where the other opponent can see their 3 choices)

example:

Player 1 has: 6-5, 3-3, and 5-1
Player 2 has: 6-2, 5-5, and 5-2

To start, the person with the "biggest" pair wins. (Player 1 has 6-5, so goes first. If there is a tie, it goes down the the second "biggest" pair.. and then third, and if all 3 match - then re-roll everything)

First player can choose which one of the pairs of dice to use for their move. So for example, player 1 decides to use the 3-3, and makes their move. They then re-roll ONLY the dice that were used (leaving the 2 unused there), and then their turn is over.

... and so on and so on.

= = = =
Other rules:
If possible, you have to pick a pair that will allow you to use BOTH dice. (If one of the dice has a 6 and you can move 6, then you can't pick that pair if another pair allows you to use both dice)

If you can only use 1 dice from all rolls, you have to use the higher of the 2 numbers.

If you can't move with any of your dice, you can pick 1 pair to re-roll. After the re-roll, your turn is over and you can then use that re-roll on your next turn.

Most everything else would be similar to backgammon. What this game adds is a lot more strategy - since not only do you have multiple things to choose to do each turn, you can also see all possible moves your opponent has to make.

Had this thought while playing a tournament in which each pairing plays two matches.  What if you and your opponent played two games simultaneously, rolling two pairs of dice at a time.  You could choose which pair to apply to which game.  (Many variations suggest themselves, such as choosing two out of four for each game, etc., but let's stick with the basic idea for the moment.)  So, let's say the dice are 4-4 and 6-3.  I could use the 4-4 in either Game 1 or Game 2, but not both.  I would have to use the 6-3 in the other.  It might also be interesting to have a rule that you must use as many dice as possible, so that you could not assign dice in such a way that one or more could not be used, if there was another assignment that used more of them.

nabla: I've played a game and used the checkers from an other board so we've had different colour for the 'racers'. I definately would suggest that well.

And downloadable MAT-files for BG!

"Snoopy": From what I have seen so far in my games, it is similar to normal backgammon. There are two differences. First, sometimes you avoid hitting to avoid cloning. However, cloning is sometimes good, if it enables you to have an advantage as in this game.

Cloning Backgammon (gambler104 vs. prettymama)
(moves 10 and 11). So I hope this helps a little.

nabla: I agree. It can be very confusing and if you don't pay very careful attention, it is quite possible to make a critical error. You could always look at move notation and judge from that, but that does take longer and you are more prone to making a mistake.

Marfitalu: Yes, Shogi / Loop Chess are good comparison points. But for me, about anything distinguishable would do it.

Now that Cloning Backgammon is out, we should *really* have some way to distinguish standard checkers on the bar from "race" checkers. Background, highlight, different place, but something !

as many ppl seem to be playing cloning backgammon as normal backgammon is cloning actually a good idea as you end up with alot more counters than you opponents do and its harder to bear of and win

◙ The Gammon Cube ◙
Please join in!

"Snoopy": So have we

gambler104: ive no idea yet try asking joshi tm

"Snoopy": What is the point of points in cloning backgammon?

kid_game_2001: the madhouse has a team to challenge

because a couple managed to start them before fencer disable them i'm guessing.

kid_game_2001: I am still waiting for the cloning gammon to be added to my fellowship. I dont understand why it is avaiable for some and not others.

kid_game_2001: There is a little problem, since only 2 fellowships iguess has stairs, before Fencer disabled it.

Are there any other fellowships out there that almost have a team formed for the new variant, Cloning Backgammon?
In my fellowship I have 6 members of the team but there are no fellowships available to challenge. So hopefully soon another fellowship forms a team.

I've been wanting to form teams for some games for quite some time now and am almost able to. Just a little more waiting for a fellowship to challenge.

Question is, which fellowship will I be able to challenge first? Hmmmmm

For the curious - http://brainking.com/en/StartedGameList?tp=92

alanback: LMAO

xmas is soon:  Waiting for a ruling on whether this constitutes stem cell research.

Does anybody know when cloning backgammon will become avaiable to the "public"?

I am accepting all challengers in HyperBackgammon. Any time control. Just send the challenge :)

joshi tm: It's more fun face to face, and so is backgammon, chess, poker, etc.

fakarten: I think you should see you opponent in real life to make this game good. At BK you can't see if the opponent's face is turning tomato-red when you say I think......... YOU'RE LYING!!

joshi tm: This game doesn't appeal to me. The rules appear overly complicated, arbitrary, and inelegant, and I doubt that the strategy will be rich enough to compensate. Even the tagline doesn't fit: this game provides more, not less, incentive to hit. Has the game even been playtested?

Apart from my other criticisms, the rules need a thorough editing. Several points are unclear, and there seems to be at lesst one contradiction.

Fencer: If you're implementing random suggestions, let me bump another suggestion.

joshi tm:  I would call that more of a mutant than a variant.  I would not be pleased to see this included in the backgammon group of games.

playBunny: Ok, I admit I must have starting glazing over the lengthy description and missed that part. I retract the statement.

grenv: Before the implementation is finished, the rules can be finetuned, of course. I am not a backgammon expert, I've just got a proposal.

grenv: The cube is already effective on the extra pieces - a whole cube per piece. You want gammons and backgammons as well?!

joshi tm: Frankly I think the cube needs gammons and backgammons to work properly. Why not have them?

BrainKing is going to launch this new game variant (I post this in permission to Fencer). (If you don't believe, ask Fencer:)).

Cloning Gammon: (Players think twice before capturing a piece)

Standard Backgammon (Cube can be used).
There are no Gammons or Backgammons.
Each time you hit an opponent's checker, you MAY add one extra checker of your color to your bar, marked with an X.(the destination place for your captured checkers). If no cube is used, you MUST add one piece to the bar. These extra pieces count as Race pieces, so you can bring them in anytime you want.
You can move freely with the extra checkers.(they will keep their markers as long as any of your normal (non-marked) pieces is still not in your home area, see next section)

The maximum number of extra checkers is 5.

Scoring:
You must have only your 15 normal (non marked) pieces in your home area your bear them out. You are still allowed to move marked (cloned) pieces, but, if you do, the piece will lose its marker and you must also put this piece in your home area. If no cube is used, you must put all pieces in your home area first.

If there is no cube, the winner is that player who bears all his or her pieces off, of course.

When the cube is used, each piece after the 15th you bear off, will score you a point (duplicated with the number on the doubling cube). If any player bears his last piece off out his or her home area (regardless of other (marked) pieces on the board), the game ends and that player also gets one point not multiplied by the cube.

Maybe there are still bugs in it. If you have suggestions, message me or Fencer.

dolphindream: Here's a few ways to start a new game:
1. Make an open invitation
2. Join an open invitation
3. Join a tournament
4. Join a Stair
5. Find a player you wish to play with, click on his/her name and send an invitation from there.

dolphindream: Go here: http://brainking.com/fr/DoSettings?lang=6&fwa=Board!bc=88

dolphindream: I have sent u an invite

sorryfor my english i french.what can start a game?
i'm new gamer in this site once 2 day so i'am not understand.

Thad: I don't think Fencer minds, but be aware that using hexkid's stuff is "outside" of the brainking system, so let say if it messes something up - like resigns a game automatically, it is not something that Fencer is responsible for or would fix - BUT that is just an extreme example - hexkid & others have been testing their system for awhile now..... but it is a case of "use at your own risk".

hexkid: The White Flag!! And I was so looking forward to the War of the Whizzes. :-(

Thad and playBunny: http://hexkid.eu/BK/AutoPlayer/help.php#A10

Thad: I can't see any advantage for Fencer in doing it but it's possibly by blocking the IP address of hexkid's server. But there are ways round that blockage and ways round the ways so we could see a technowar between the two whizzes as hexkid tries to fire his autoplays into Fencer's server while Fencer tries to bat them away into the null regions of cyberspace.

playBunny: Could Fencer prevent it if he decided to? I don't know the ins and outs of how it works that well, but I like it! Go hexkid!!

Andersp: All the more to see the adverts! I guess you could enjoy it while it lasts. Who knows, if we capture a fairy and squeeze out a wish, maybe Fencer might even take hexkid's method as a simple but effective way to implement autopass within the BK server. ;o)

playBunny: Thanks again :)..but dont you think there is a risk that Fencer will make this feature "disabled", we know how much he loves "empty clicking"

fakarten, Andersp: Doh! Silly me. Yes, the AutoPlayer action is done by Hexkid's server and the user's OS and browser don't matter when it's in use. It's the other BK goodies that he's developing for Firefox. Thanks for reminding me. Your browser does need javascript for registering. There's a bit more information in the FAQ.

There ya go, Anders! Hexkid's got you covered!

AutoPass even works with lynx. Just tested it. :)

jryden:
It's true that arpa lost to a stronger player, but this is not relevant for the Sonneborn-Berger calculation. What matters is that alanback defeated a stronger player.

arpa's and redsales's S-Bs were computed incorrectly. The correct result is:

Section 1 	BKR	1	2	3	4	5	Points	S-B (?)	Order
1 mrbugs001	2040	 	 0 	 0 	 0 	 0 	0.0	0.0	5.
2 alanback	2004	 1 	 	 1 	 0 	 1 	3.0	5.0	1.
3 arpa    	1961	 1 	 0 	 	 1 	 1 	3.0	4.0	2.
4 Ebru    	1840	 1 	 1 	 0 	 	 0 	2.0	3.0	3.
5 redsales	1732	 1 	 0 	 0 	 1 	 	2.0	2.0	4.

playBunny: Thanks..im not using Firefox but ill check it out :)