Czuch Czuckers: I'm playing my first couple of games now, and it seems a little silly all those pieces on the bar. Could take years to finish at the rate I'm going, and I agree that the scoring seems tricky to understand. Don't think I'll play again.

grenv: yeah... I dont like the cubed games really, since you can easily get 50 points in one game! Plus i agree, some of my games have gotten ridiculous, and when you get behind, the only strategy is to try to drag out the game by adding as many pieces a s possible...

I'm still in the very early stages of my first few games of this, and I'm not sure why this is a variation?? What is the incentive to take advantage of the new rules in non-cube games? Or is the point that you want to avoid when you can, having to clone? I'm not getting why we want to play this, but probably only because I haven't gone far enough to see it yet. lol..

If someone could help me see, I would appreciate it.

rod03801:  Are you asking why you would want to capture an opponents piece?

Gr☺uch☺: I'm wondering why someone wants to clone. In the cubed version, I can see why, because if you have lots of pieces and manage to get them all off, blah blah blah, then you can get lots of points.

In the non-cubed games, I just don't see the point of wanting to clone. Yeah, I've played backgammon long enough to know why you want to knock your opponent to the bar. lol.. jeez..

I'm wondering is there some sort of extra advantage the cloning business has for someone??? Or is it one of those things where: maybe you won't always choose to knock your opponent to the bar, since it gives you an extra piece to have to take all around the board.

I just haven't gotten far enough in the game to see the point of it all. I was just looking for someone to enlighten me a bit.

rod03801: It seems to me that the strategy is to sometimes avoid hitting an opponent when in a normal game you would hit them? Then, sometimes if you are behind, you might want to leave many pieces uncovered, to force your opponent to hit you? I think it is less of a hazard to have men left open, especially in the early positions, and try extra hard to make a block by your home base, then force your opponent to make a hit on you and back them up, something like that. But then sometimes, i try to play it a lot like a normal game, and get it to a race as soon as possible!

rod03801:  OK.  I think I understand your question.  I think it's a disadvantage to clone.  That's the beauty of the game.  You can leave a piece exposed where normally you wouldn't. 

OTOH, if you have most of your home base covered, and you can put your opponent on the bar, he/she can't get that piece out becasue there will be no slots to land on (of few choices).  And your cloned piece can get out (assuming opponents home base has openings) and so the cloned piece is not a disadvantage to you.  

Another advantage to cloning might be to build up a wall in your opponents home base  thereby keeping him from getting all his pieces  home.  But the downside of that seems to be that  you still have a gauntlet of your own to navigate and every time you land on an opponents piece, you add another one of yours to the bar.  ;) 

So the biggest advantage I can see is only really available if you have your homebase covered so that an opponents piece on the bar has no place to go :)

does that make sense?  I should probably learn the exact terms of the board and pieces!  lol

Gr☺uch☺: Sure. Of course I understand. I was just hoping there was more to it than that. I guess I was expecting more from a new variation. Just because I love backgammon. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, though. It just probably won't be one I'll play a lot. I'm not a fan of anti backgammon, and the "leaving open pieces as bait" strategy sounds too much like anti and it turns me off a bit! lol..

But it's always nice to have a new game to try.

rod03801:  i've never played anti so I'm a bit new at it all.  I'm not one that likes variants much.  Loop chess is fun but that's about it for chess.  I like backgammon race and hyper but beyond that, I'm not much on the other games. ;)

rod03801: Thats what it is I dont like about it! I wasnt sure... but it is a cross between anti and.... I really dont like anti much either!

Gr☺uch☺: Cloning is bad unless it serves some purpose. So in many cases you try to avoid hitting. But in some cases as in the game that I posted somewhere on here, I think it is advantageous to hit. Still a bit early to tell all the unique intracacies of the game.

As for variants, hyper could work but it seems that it would just turn into a match of complete luck. Race or crowded could work as could nackgammon. However, anti is not an option as games would never end.

gambler104: Cloning is bad unless it serves some purpose.

What about cloning cows for food, does that count?