Aloha all,

I would like to reply to several previous posts here.

Pioneer54, outstanding post on Saturday. I myself just needed a little time away from all the discussion that, for me was getting pretty heated. I glad it’s all being resolved.

My thoughts on a proof, and in response to what Gary has said:
Gary, I believe you said something about you would gladly accept a challenge from anyone and prove that player 1 always wins in fun-pente. While I believe that you could certainly do that, it would not actually prove that player 1 always wins. It would certainly demonstrate that fact quite well, though. ;-)

The problem is that we need to show that a win by player 1 is assured in every possible game!

I have two thoughts on an actual proof.
If we could prove that a whole subset of games are won by player 1, then we could reduce the proof to only showing that the remaining games are won by player 1 also. For example, let’s say that we could prove that anytime player 2’s opening move is at least 7 spaces from the center, player 1 has certain victory. If we could prove that, then we could just play all the games where player 2’s first move is within 7 spaces of the center. Still a tough task, but much easier than the original problem!

We could prove that P1 always wins in another way. If we could come up with the right way of measuring the current position of the board, then all we would need to show is that P1 can always increase that measurement on his next turn. Of course, coming up with the right way to measure the board is just as difficult as the original proof!! I believe this ‘measuring of the board’ is how most artificial intelligence chess playing games work.

Gary, on the subject of your challenge:
(This is just food for thought)
Now that you have found a game that meets your criteria, what does that say about your original premise?

My two cents:
There are currently eight possible variants being discussed for inclusion here. They are all the combinations of: Pente or Keyro Pente
play on a 13x13 or 19x19 board
play with or without the opening restriction

I personally would like to see Pente on a 19x19 board without the restriction implemented. I think implementing all eight would be too much. I know implementing six has been suggested. I’m not sure if even that many is too many.

Two more cents:
I have seen several posts discussing how some players would like to see everyone play by the ‘correct’ rules. Wouldn’t in be better to say the official rules? I mean, with an online game, you pretty much have to play by the correct rules anyway, don’t you?

Thad