Fast Start - First 5 to sign - Fast Espionage #5 tournament

Here a link: http://brainking.com/game/Tournaments?trg=6562&tri=24020&trnst=0

Brainking has a real rating system?
When you win/ lose games by going on holiday or your opponent disappears without trace after 3 moves?

it takes 100s of games to get an accurate rating...

Fencer,

We NEED a captured pieces section. Giving us that information does not change the game. All it does is let the computer collect data for us that it already known. There is one for Chess & Pente, why not one for Espionage? Please, I am begging!!! ;-)

LOL @ Thad begging, but I agree. I spent 3/4 of my first several games trying to figure out what pieces I lost. By the time I played my next move, I had forgotten the boards.

ths is quite easy once you get the hang of it without having a piece captured section. If you use your spies, properly you can see the pieces otherwise this will never happen. you cant blindly throw pieces into the ? pieces or it really dont matter what your trying to track. your going to lose.you need to use them spys properly. they are your "EYES"! you have to learn how to use your notes. than you can put your captureed pieces there. so i track as follows: 1,2,5,3,2,sap,SPy, sap,4,4,1,1, etc etc. if i dont know what i captured i put a +3 or a ?....

But I don't want to track pieces and take notes and all that. Let the computer do it. I want to play games!! ;-)

I agree with Thad - who wants to make notes?

i know what you mean, nothingness, and I tried that..for about 5 moves. It just became too much like work and not enough fun. I appreciate your ability to do that and that's why you are one of the best players on this site. How about a compromise, Fencer. Could you show captured pieces for fast and/or small espionage, because people play those games usually to expedite the monotony of regular espionage games. Most of my games have taken close to 100 moves and haven't been fulfilling!

I like that idea a lot. Room for everybody. The guys who like the added challenge of having to keep track can do so in Espionage and we can have our captured pieces list in Small or Fast (or whatever combo works). :-D

well i think having the list is fine but only for pieces you have already identified. otherwise it eliminates the purpose of the spy. Which is used to identify pieces. i hate typing the stuff out as well.

a very good point as well, maybe we can agree on that. You'll still need to type notes as to which of your pieces you know or think as exposed to the other side among other things, so it won't eliminate the notes, just the quantity.

what about a section in which it shows blank pieces which are captured, and you can mark them yourself ?

It's all good and well saying it, but nothing has changed for the better. This game is marred especially the ludicrous allowance of forward and backward moves.

IYT will always win until this is rectified.

well you can only move backward than forward but not forward than backwards. this site beats IYT b/c of the legit ratings system adn the format of all games. it has its flaws but they are much better than IYT. i was on iyt for liek 4-5 years and will be leaving after season 6 is over.

with all respect that is only an example of the problem; being able to move sidewards endlessly defeats one of the major parts to the "game".

And the rating part of it is only relevant if there are sufficient players of a decent calibre.

the side to side thing can be a bit of a cahllenge. but it jsut takes it to the next level of thought. there should be a repetition rule as in chess.

I am fairly new to the game. Can someone please explain what is wrong with moving back and forth on consecutive turns?

according to the rules you cant move directly back to the previous position with the same piece in the next move

i prefer a site with some flaws which are being worked on and a owner who listens and is clearly productive and will work on this soon as well .. but then again i have never been on iyt :)

imo its silly to compare game sites .. just play on them and see if you like them .. if not then dont .. if you do then do .. if you like both .. play on both .. :)

Hrqls, how can you prefer a site when you have no experience of another? Try it and then judge.

Thad, if you can't see the benefit of what can be gained by moving up then down, then you need to play the game more.

Even with the rule that a piece can't return to a square it's just come from, it can just make an endless square, which is just a slightly longer version of the side-to-side repetition.

Not if you have someone cornered.

basically you must improvise and adapt to the rules of a game. i think everything should stay the same. i too have been playing thsi game for appx 5 years? its not perfect but as good as you can get.

The bug with forbidden back moves will be fixed as of 2nd/3rd January.

what bug?

You are welcome to your opinion, although stating you "must" is a tad dictatorial!

i was curious as to hopefully changing seomthing in the game. When you view a game that is currently goign on, you cant seem to tell the armies apart. Both armys look gray. i like to study ongoing games but cant do this if both armies are the smae color.

Dragon: true.. the sad thing is i dont have enough time to play on more than 1 site :(

i chose this site because of its ease, and because of the good talk (reading) i heard (read) about it commpared to other sites .. and so far i havent been let down in any of my expentations

(thats probably some bad english .. but i am blonde, and dutch .. so be easy on me ;))

Looks like new rules are in effect for all Espionage games:
All mobile pieces can move one space horizontally or vertically. The piece cannot return to its previous position in the next turn, a different move must be done first.

i dont like the fact that espionage is now an exact clone of sabotage from IYT. i wish we couldve kept the side to side movement. many of the iyt regualrs liek my self are now wanting the volcano-less variations i think they are a great addition but i prefer the volcanos and really coudl careless if those version are added to Brain king. What we need to do now is to add more volcno variations. ive only seen a few as it is. Some are much more easier to negotiate than others.

Side to side was a nice feature... I was going to join. Glad I didn't pull that trigger too soon!

BDilly: Why would you base your joining on 1 small rule in 1 game of 65 games? The benefits of joining far out weigh that!

well i think maybe b/c this is the "EXACT" same game as they have on Itsyourturn.com. and that site is on its way down. and it wouldve been nice to see a slight variance of that game on this site. that 1 rule changes the game alot! in more ways than you can count. many are going to slowly be filtering over to brainking 1 by 1 jsut as i have. and we are a very competetive bunch and have created a league with its own website, We are in season 6 of our league which has been around for maybe 3 years. It wouldve been nice to have a differnet game. many are still staying away until there can be a non-volcano variant of espionage. If im off on this explanation Bdilly jstu give me your reasons.

This is the only game I am interested in playing here. It was a breath of fresh air in its subtle differences from IYT's versions. I joined IYT 6 months ago. Now that it is the same why would I join both?

I would take here over IYT by a mile! I used to play on IYT and GoldToken. This place is far superior. but that is only my opinion. I did not realize that you had limited yourself to only one game type.

I would like to say I REALLY hate that new rules that was put in that does not let you move back to a space (sideways) that you just come from.

Take this example. I have a 5 piece. Right in front of me is my opponetns 1 piece which I could take, but there is a sapper ready to take my 5 if I take the 1 piece, so I move my 5 piece to the side and not take the 1 piece.

Well now (after the rule change), the opponents 1 piece can move where my 5 was and not even worry about having to protect it (at least until the next move).

Anyway, it just COMPLETELY changed the strategy of on-going games, and wanted to voice my opinion that I do not like this rule - and it made it worse to apply it to on-going games which changes many of the strategies.

i'm not fond of it either. It brought a new dimension to the game the way it was. Seems too restrictive now. Isn't there room for both variants? One with more volcanoes and lateral moves and one without or some combination thereof?

i dont mind ... its the rule .. but its a bit weird to force it in ongoing games already ... where someone might have build a strategy which is now worth nothing

i would like it best in separate variants as well i think :)

Separate variants will be possible later.

UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this rule REALLY stinks to be put into ongoing games!!

Again did a good "bait" job to get someone to follow me, and now I can not attack...... so I'll share my frustration with everyone else.

.... and to make it worse, they followed me with a spy, so they can see my setup and now defend against it before I can attack. UGH!

Easy :-)

And if you make an agreement with your opponent about restarting the game, just let me know.

I'll get over it and accept it - just frustrating and letting out a little steam!

thats the worst. i hate restarting especially when you are up on a superior opponent. im lucky i play defensively and wasnt caught off guard. i didnt over persue.

Ok. Let's get a few things in perspective.

For starters Big Bad Wolf, moving sideways from a "1" has nothing to do with this rule; like why move in the first place?!

Secondly, my rating's took a serious bashing with the "crash" 2 years ago. Subsequently, I had to restart games I had already won. Annoying? yes. Getting anywhere by being peeved off? No. Lesson: Accommodate the new rule and don't moan.

Also, Nothingness, is chess on this site not an exact clone of IYT's, nevermind other site's?

The point I am putting across here is not having to change the game, but being able to offer the same dimensions, just on a superior site.

Can nobody see this?!

Dragon: Why move away from a "1"? Well if I'm getting ready to attack with a 5, but I know his "1" is protected by another 5 or a sapper - I will not attack and possible even move away, which may (in most cases) make my opponent think it is a very weak piece and may chase, allowing me to then turn around and attack. (Strategy I think it is called)

Will anything happen because I'm letting off a little steam in here? Of course not, but felt like venting somewhere.... that is all. :-)

hmm i see your not very well versed in espionage /sabotage/ stratego strategy. being able to move back to the same spot prevents your opponent from tracing (not tracking) you while retreating from blind pieces that are discovered at a later time. but attacking is dangerous if you are able to move back to the same spot (very difficult to explain in this post). so you have to think a bit harder. As for comparing chess to other sites HUH?! Chess has "CHESS" rules. Espionage is its own game which followed a specific set of rules for that particular game and could be changed at any time. Chess rules are exactly that... chess rules you cant change them (well you could but then it becomes a different game). Espionage was made here and can be changed by the creator of the game. But now Espionage is Sabotage. a variance would be nice, with both sets of rules.. As for ratings i love the ratings system b/c it is like USCF. Please dont change the ratings system.

With all respect, where do you get your findings that I am "not very well versed in espionage /sabotage/ stratego strategy"?

Like what knowledge do you have of my experience, ability, etc?

Your also missing my point concerning chess, and that is being able to play the same variant, but on a different, and probabaly better site.