Jonraon / lightningbolt will probably not be able to enter since he is currently locked in a fierce battle in another one of my tournies in which there is a free lifetime membership at stake. He also is not a member and is limited to 1 tourney.

Nothingness:

Who could jonaron possibly be locked in a fierce battle with? :)

Now I have to go check.

eric_hanson:

I see he's playing tenuki, my old Dark Chess buddy from IYT.

I'll be curious to see those games when they are over.

yes he is playing tenuki! Tenuki takes a lot of time to make his moves. So that could take a long time.

3 spots remaining!

I've had to withdraw due to possibility of being offline for a time in october which just found out about . I will put up some very fast games in the meantime if anyone fancies a quick crack

2 spots left...

Thad: Answering the question how long should an espionage game take:

Small Fast is generally done in under 60 moves. Usually well under (95% of the time at least one of the players knows who will win within 30 moves), though about 2% of my games go 100 moves. 113 moves was the longest of mine.

Open Fast is generally done in under 70 moves. I don't think I've ever had a game go 100 moves. Open Fast games often remain in doubt a bit longer but generally resolve very quickly because of the extra moves.

The games with obstacles can go much longer . . . I think I once heard of a 300+ move game.

I am generally a patient player, so my wins tend a bit to the long side.

ive had many games go over 300 moves but not in small fast. mostly in small. as for the larger versions they can go anywhere between 30-300 moves. small fast is by far the fastest games which is why i chose that version for this particular tourney.

I have tried to invite some more players to the Tournament:
Small fast espionage
I has started from the top of the BKR-list so hopefully we can get some more good players.

Hello all, just figuring this site out, but I'll join in if there's still a spot. Thanks!

I always win!:

Hey Sam, welcome aboard. Looks like Nothingess' tourney filled-up but you should be able to get some games by checking 'waiting games' . . .or just sending me a random invite. :)

Play here?

Josef is here---SL-The Gentle Killer
SL-GentleKiller
not sure about Borg

Is there anyone willing to play this tournament?
All games; 5 players; fast start. #19

There are still 3 slots free!

dAGGER:
the game is small fast!

Please sign up -> 1500 ;), 10000 :D, 1600 ;) (single elimination for 8, Fisher's clock 3/0.8/15 with autopass & immediately start)
More informations about Fischer's clock on BrainKing & BrainRook

Espionage - I need 3 players more
Small Espionage - 2
Fast Espionage - 1
Open Fast Espionage - 1
& other games

HAPPY NEW YEAR

Welcome to Sandoz who has joined us at BK.
We will see a shake up soon at the top of the BKR rankings page

Hi everybody,

yes, I got back to the best game ever - after a longer time out.
Good to see some of the "old" guys, here. Obviously, some of you already feel quite at home on brainking. Including foto and advanced memberships ...wow ... did you pay for a lifetime membership, nothingsness?

Well, don't raise the bar too much, Mark.
I first have to get back to former condition, which seems to be a long way, as all of you most likely have improved your styles enormously. But then I'll shake it up, hehe *573*

Looking forward to some challenging games with you. And, please, let me know if there are any tournaments. It's hard to get an overview.

Thanks to Mark for the guidance with my first steps here on brainking.

all the best, Michael

Hallo to every Espionage players.
Not many of you know about me, because I play slowly and I have few games going on.
I came to BK some months ago coming from Its Your Turn.
I like this site much more, because there are more interesting features, such as ratings and statistics.
Unfortunately, here it is harder to find Espionage players.
Some weeks ago I posted an invitation in the waiting games and I ritired it after 20 days!
Most tournaments with long time limit have no signings for Espionage and its variants.
Can someone halp me in finding good tournaments with 5 or 7 days limit?

dAGGER: I can create any tourney you would like. i tried to create an 8 player tourney and could not fill the 8 spots. the potential tourney also died after only a few weeks. Most of the IYT players are gone i fear. It seems that only the cream of the crop stuck around. Lightning bolt is jonaron as many know. and a few others are hear on a very limited basis. I did pay for a Lifetime membership and i put the other up a prize and they are in the finals as of right now. i hope that the game grows stronger. hopefully when the world is out of the economic bubble everyone will comeback.

Nothingness:
I remember the Tourny you created some weeks ago: there were only 5 players signed up.
How can we find more people playing Espionage and potentially joining large tourneys?
Does everyone know about this message board?
If everyone reading this board speaks about it with all opponents, I believe it would be the best advertising.

How can I write a link to this board in my messages during a game?

dAGGER: I think you can safely assume the majority of the players are aware tournaments exist, that they can sign up, and furthermore, that there are boards for each (group of) games.

I also think there the number of different people posting on boards is much smaller than the number of players - no doubt many player don't read (all) the boards because they just want to play, not read or post.

I think you have to face the possibility that Espionage just isn't that popular. Just over 13 thousand games have been played - counting all five variants together. That's less than a far more recent game like Knight Fight, which, without the benefits of variants, has more than 18.5 thousand finished games. And it's utterly dwarved by the number of Backgammon matches whose count stands as of this moment at 861957, 65 times as many as all the Espionage variants.

Espionage is a far more complex game than 99% of the games on here. Many more variables then even chess. This makes finding new players very difficult b/c it alienates many people who are unwilling to learn such a vastly complicated game. when you can just roll a few dice or finish a game of checkers in a few turns. Many Elite level Espionage/Sabotage games have been know to last well over the 200-300 move plateau far more than most chess games will ever last. The game was a top 3 game on IYT. this is a much different following than on IYT and it will take some work here on BK until it gets to the level that it was on IYT. We just have to stay vigilant.

Nothingness: Game length in itself doesn't mean much. Many Anti-Backgammon games last over 200 or even 300 moves as well, yet there have been more Anti-Backgammon games than all the Espionage variant games combined.

I've only played a few Espionage games (not even enough to own any BKR). The main reason I don't play it is the BK is a turn based website, where games can easily take months or years to finish. This is fine if the board reveals all information needed to play the game - that is, history isn't important. This is not the case with any of Espionage variants, which makes me not to want to play it.

AbigailII: I agree that to play at a high level requires improvements to the BK interface. I'm sure that keeps many players from playing (or playing more games) here. I know that limits my playing. I end up playing other games more.

One suggestion is to cater to the beginners. Make some tournaments for them. Offer to hlep them become better players and make them feel part of the community. A few of them will get hooked and become good players.

AbigailII: You can find the game history on the right side of the board, so you can always look back. In espionage good players make notes for themselves so they know which pieces have been identified by the opponent. This is possible here at BK as well. The game doesn't have to last long if you play frequently, do try small fast espionage! I hope we'll get you into an espionage enthousiast! :)

I find it hard to find the tournaments with good espionage opponents. But also I must admit that my playing level isn't that good anymore, b/c I tend to paly to fast and make too few notes, or forget to make them, so I make fatal errors.

SL-Bosse: Thats true, but if pawn will finish all his games and he is not able to advance to next round, he can contact Fencer and he will remove him from tournament and pawn can join another tournament.

Chaos: Oh, I know I could look in the move history, make notes and such. But that is too much work for me. BK could also decide to not show chess boards anymore, afterall "there's the move history". I'll stop playing chess here if the board will disappear.

There are many, many other games (here and at other sites) to be played that don't involve the work that Espionage requires. So Espionage loses, and I don't play it here.

I also think that if you are a Pawn you cannot join a fellowship?> is this still true?

SL-Bosse:
I remember about the pages speaking about tactics.
Are these pages still active?
Is there anyone who can remind us the link?

Nothingness: you are right

SL-Bosse: Yes, Saboteur once had a pages with hints and tips for the game at, but he didn't keep it up and it expired...

SL-Bosse:
that link contains useful information about the beginning of the game and the importance of general 2 vs spy (or recon).
I believe it may be helpful for new players here in BK.
It would be great to keep this link up, even if the old League does not exist anymore.

I propose to choose (or create) one tournament a month as a sort of "Gran Slam Tournament", as it was in IYT.
All people reading this messageboard would like entering these tourneys and it would be easier to advertise them and recruiting more and more players week after week.
I kindly ask your feedback about time limit, kind of tourney (elimination, round robin, etc.), espionage variants.
Our aim should be finding more and more people joining tourneys.

dAGGER: Good idea :) I'm starting to play more seriously again as well, so let the tourneys begin!

The only downside is that pawns can only enter 1 tourney and have to wait till the whole torueny is over to start a new one...

dAGGER: My proposal is a first tournamnet in "Small Fast Espionage" with 2 days thinkingtime. Round Robin with 4 players in each group

SL-Bosse: I STRONGLY recommend that you use the Fischer clock. It might be a bit more of a challenge to get the right settings for espionage than for other games, but it really hleps keep the tournaments from dragging on and on and on.

Please sign up -> 11000 :D & 1700 ;) (single elimination for 8 with immediately start)
Fischer's clock 3/0.8/15

Still available:
# Espionage (4 - open)
# Small Espionage (5 - open)
# Fast Espionage (6 - open)
# Open Fast Espionage (5 - open)
&
# Espionage (6 - open)
# Small Espionage (6 - open)
# Small Fast Espionage (5 - open)
# Open Fast Espionage (5 - open)

Thad: I'm not at all happy with Fisher's clock. If you're in a different timezone, and you can't avoid a long time after the last move of the other player, you lose b/c of timeouts all the time. Happened to me just too often, and I do play fast!

Thad:
what is the fisher clock?

OK, I found the answer myself here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer_clock

This is not for me, as I play slowly.
I always support 5 days with vacations on.

Please remember what is my aim: recruiting more and more people for espionage tourneys.
Maybe we can choose some events with long time limit and some other with short limit.
We will see which is more successful.

dAGGER: Maybe we can choose some events with long time limit and some other with short limit.

And if you become a member, you can actually make tournaments yourself.

Friends: You can get past the issues you have with Fischer's clock settings by adjusting the bonus you get for each move. For example, if the settings are 7/1/7, then you get an extra day each time you make a move, so you'll always have at least one day to make your move, regardless of how quickly your opponent moves.

I like the suggestion of some fast and some slow paced tourneys. One size probably won't fit all here and there's no reason to try and force that. ;-)