Rex Nihilo: MAT format is to be done. "Soon".

Fencer: I am having problems with the single elimination games. 4 and 8 are not enough and fill up to quickly. Then if you put 16 they do not fill. Is there a reason why you do not have unlimited for the elimination games?
From what I am seeing other fellowships are having the same problem.
Thanks
BARB

Pbarb2: Yes, there is a reason. The power of 2.

Fencer: That reason would be obsolete if you were to consider an ancient proposal of mine ;-)

Fencer: Ok I get it now. Is there a way you can put a 12 in there. That seems to be about the number we can get.. 10 to 12. Going from 8 to 16 is to much to fill for my fellowship anyway. Thanks

Pbarb2: Thats a good idea, having 12 as an option

xmas is soon: Adding 12 as an option sounds kind of bogus to me. I think there are two reasonable options:

1) Keep the current system. In this case, if you know you won't get 16 players, you'll have to set up a tournament for 8 players. But everybody has the same amount of matches to play.

2) Change it to what kleineme suggested: Every tournament can be started, and if the number of players is not a power of 2, pick those who advance to the second round randomly, let the rest play it out. Or you could even pick them by BKR (if the tournament isn't random, hm )

Mr. Shumway: How can adding 12 be bogus?

xmas is soon: You could not have 12 (without giving someone a free by) and still have it a single elimination tournament.

For example:

Round 1: Start with 12 players, 6 winners
Round 2: Start with 6 players, 3 winners
Round 3: No way to keep it a single elimination without giving someone a free by.)

BIG BAD WOLF: ah right, i get you now

xmas is soon: Now I would not think it would be too hard to put some sort of by system to work with less people.

lets say it is a 16 player single elimination tournament, and only 12 sign up.

Round 1: 16 players (with 4 of them "ghost" players which randomly get put into the tournament and automaticly give the person who played against them a free win/by into the next round - of course does not count as a won game - just a win into the next round of the tournament. - so 8 players advance.

Round 2: 8 players start, 4 winners

Round 3: 4 players start, 2 winners

Round 4: 2 players start, 1 winner!

So that is why a single elimination tournament needs to be to the power of 2 (2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, ...) = and does not work with a multiple of 2. (2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, ...)

Edited to add: Of course only do this with the 8 & above single elimination tournaments where at least more then 1/2 of the players sign up. So if you set up a 32 player tournament and only 15 sign up, then it should be reduced to a 16 single elimination tournament with 1 "ghost" player to give a free by.

BIG BAD WOLF: Ghost players???? It's called a bye!! Have a look at a few of the tennis tournaments that have players pull out to see how it works.

grenv: I know it's called a bye - but for Fencer to make it easy to program, it might be easier to put an imaginary player into the spot for a second to automatically lose and move the next player on.... plus it may make it easier for others to visualize it.

BIG BAD WOLF: A nice puzzle is : How many games are played in total in such an elimination tournament of n players (without counting the games vs "ghost players" of course) ?

nabla: Obviously n-1 since everyone (except the winner) loses exactly one match. right?

grenv: Correct naturally.

BIG BAD WOLF: Thanks for spelling it out for me. I understand some of it but not all.:( I think my best way is not have.. all game sign up and just play the popular ones that fill up faster on 16. The others just 4 or 8. That way we can play all games for people to sign up for those that want to play. People seem to like the elimination better. I know I do. Not so long.
Thank you for your answers... BBW and everyone else.
BARB

Fencer: Also, very nice! Not many use Jellyfish anymore, but I know GNU supports it and Snowie will import it.

Thanks!