GothicI: RE your last comment, not being a chess history buff I don't know, but I wonder if it was not more a process of assimilation than replacement. Take for instance the en passant move or the double move of the pawn from the 2nd rank.

discussed chess variants, suggesting there are three types ...
1. Alternative rules which might emphasis one (or more) particular aspects of traditional chess which has the effect or limiting chess.
2. Alternative starting arrangements lke fortress and corner chess, which only provides alternative strategies and tactics without expnading the game.
3. Alternative boards and/or pieces, such as Gothic, Janus, Grand and Shogi which work to expand Chess.
Further, the argument over suicide vs Gothic was not a real one as they are different types. I think the first type will always be around as they can be used to hone strengths and weakenesses, the second will come and go as they really offer little except the burning of opening books, and the third will always be the largest group where many will come and go but few will remain. The ones which remain are more likely to be established as an independant game (such as Shogi ... here with some discussion over which is the actual variant Shogi or traditional chess) or contribute to the gradual change which does happen within chess over generations.

Or something to that effect :)

I think I play like that anyway (at least some games as Gothic can attest :)

We already have it, I think, as anti-chess.

I think you have both missed the point. There are, I would suggest, three types of variants:
1. Alternative Rules Where a standard, or near standard board is used but the rules are changed which usually emphasises one or more aspects of traditional chess ... examples are suicide chess, atomic chess, extinction chess and loop chess. These result in a limitation of the current strategies and tactics.
2. Alternate Starting Arrangements Using traditional rules but with different starting positions ... examples are Fortress chess and Corner Chess. These result in alternate strategies and tactics.
3. Alternate Boards and/or Pieces These alternatives attempt to expand on the basic tenets of traditional chess ... examples are Gothic Chess, Janus Chess, Grand Chess and Shogi (although a Shogi player may well consider our traditional chess to be the variant!). If main-stream chess is to change it will be into one (or a combination) from this group as they offer teh opportunity to expand the strategies and tactics of the game.

In the end, they all add to our experiences of war gaming with little pieces on a generally chequered board. Chess has always been in a state of change although there have been few changes in recent times. As more people play I think all types of variants will increase in popularity as they explore the bounds of their experience ... and each person will have their favourite(s). If traditional chess is to change it will be a gradual process which may take many generations before it is like gothic or janus

Great!

omega chess ???? never heard of the one ... and there is a crazy screen variant !!!! WOW (LOL)

BBW - i think you are right but being on the offensive first up means that you must continually put on pressure which can cost pieces. Would like to try it out though.

My favourite variant is atomic (check my ratings and you will see why LOL) so you can guess which one I would vote for :)

For those of you who tried to unsuccessfully join up using the link below, I think I have fixed it now.
W. :)

How much are the chess sets?

What I am thinking is that maybe (for bunnies like me unlikely to get past the first round) it would be the extra enticement to get me in. It would mean the entrance fee might need to increase to say $75 but that way every participant gets some recognition of being in the comp and doesn't go away empty handed. It would be great for working through games and could be embossed with something like "PARTICPANT IN THE FIRST WORLD GOTHIC CHESS CHAMPIONSHIP". Probably wouldn't work next time (as many would already have sets) but that is a while away. It would also have the benefit that it gets the tangible product out into the world and not just left being played (for most of us) on here.

Comments? [Revsion 1]

Hi GCP ... tried the link to the game and it throws me out to the login screen. i then tried the game id from querying the tag and came up with a game not found, probably deleted ... so can you post the actual game number please (I thought it used to be here but that post seems to have been deleted?) Cheers W.

Had a quick look but haven't reviewed the game in detail yet but my preferrence would actually be for white's castled postion.

Personally, if I were white, I would have avoided castling as it seems as though it would have been apparent that black was heading this way. Instead, I would have looked to be ready to swing my pieces over to this side and launch an attack down the flank along the rook file as I think the J pawn can prove difficult to defend ... this has sometimes worked for me :)

Ah but look how the good guys whip my tail :(

Being a persistent loser you should probably choose to disregard this comment, but (for those of you who know me will understand) I couldn't resist myself ...

I find that when the opponent castles it is a benefit to me as I know which side of the board to concentrate my attack on, this is particularly so when castling happens early in the game and piece development is still underway (so many pieces and so many places to put them!). I realise this is a somewhat simplistic assessment, but maybe that reflects my shallow play :(

This is, in part I believe, due to the number of diagonal pieces (four) available which can hone in on the corners (there is even one more in Janus Chess but in that variation there seems to be less castling, but let's not go there right now) and the width of the board makes it easier to position in threatening, yet distant, locations.

So, as a defensive move I try to castle after the opponent and to the opposite corner depending upon where their pieces are ...

and this, of course, relies upon me lasting that long :)

Whisperz is Whisperz generally everywhere except at Yahoo where Whisperz is Whipserzq (Monty Python fans will understand).

You certainly had Munwest on the run. You could also have tried:
29. Bb7 ?? (move doesn't matter)
30. Ja6#

There are plenty of chess programs for replaying games and exploring alternatives, does anyone know of one which can be used for (or modified to suit) Gothic Chess?

I think (hope?) you are going to have your work cut out keeping up ... you have set a high standard to start.

Looks like a winner ... keep up the good work :)

Better make that strong coffee ... and black ... and add some chocolate to help stimulate the brain ... it'a a little beyond me too :)

Whisperz
- Move 14 Kg6 clashes with move 12 Bg6 :(

Jaungrande
- Move 27 Kg4 but bishop is already here (move 23).
- Moves 29 to 36 are repeats, and why wouldn't King repeat Kj4 at move 37?
:)

Okay, I had my guess early, but to put some positions on it:

White: Ka1, Ba2, Nb1
Black: Kj8
Black King has many posible locations but generally in that diagonally opposite corner.

Hi GothicChessPro

I am a little confused ... well, a lot actually. Are we to post here our proposed starting positions or are you going to set up one of the 245 40-move alternatives for us to solve by playing you? If we are to post here then I guess we should also post the solution which may have a number ways of getting there.

Cheers from one well-confused whisper :)

I, too, have looked at the daunting database and suspected the same as Felix. My thanks goes to him as he has done what I had hoped to do, but, I am sure, in a much more rapid process.

I think that the same applies to most of the stalemate psoitions, that they would not (some even could not) occur in actual games.

I guess for us pawns that we will only need one slot free for when the tournament begins. Is that right Fencer?

Perhaps, if might be so bold, and, if Ed did have electronic copies originals, they might be posted on his web site?

My quick suggestion is that all the white pieces are in one corner, King right in the corner with the bishop one out or one up (opposite colour to corner), and the black King in the opposite diagonal corner. Before the King can be maniputlated you already have 8 moves for the King, 4 for the knight and possibly 3 for the bishop ... 15 moves before game on! Of course the actual placement of the black King is not so critical so long as he can get to the corner quickly without undue interference. :)

Worked for me

And another aside that I have heard is that a bishop pair is worth more than the sum total of the two bishops individually, that is, taking the first bishop is worth more than taking the second. Any thoughts on this?

Just reviewed this game and it does rely heavily on your opponent not moving the e, f or g pawns. How often have you come across this type of opening? I would have thought most players would move at least one of these pawns to activate the diagonals? Is there a corollary which builds on this opening in these instances?

Read through your discourse on how Gothic Chess came to be ... very interesting indeed.

Let us hope it does not go the way of the "Beta" video tape.

One thing which surprises me is the relative value (on 8x8 board) of the rook to the queen. In my early days I learnt that a queen was worth two rooks, and more lately that rooks might be 5 and a queen, 9. This is significantly different!

I continue to play and can assure you tath I am regularly NOT choosing the best move available, or so I find out a few moves later ... hence my need for (a lot of) assistance :)

thanks, I have had a look at that site and the games are fun to watch, but go too quickly for me. It would be good if there were some controls on them, but enough bitching, I think it is great to be able to see them at all. I also like the initial commentary. I shall follow up the Gothic Chess Review in due course. For me, the what I find hard to determine (in my game) is which is going to be the best move in any given position. Thanks :)

Are these available for review anywhere? HAve they be anaylised and annotated?

Thanks, you have been most inciteful

juangrande ... i would be interested to know, from your previous research, the relative values of the rook, knight and bishop when they are on the board with the queen, janus and chancellor. I assume a pawn is 1.0

I have only just started playing and I find this discussion interesting. So far I have found the knight attribute extremely helpful and i think this is because it is the beginning of the game where there are more pieces and fighting is at closer range. I expect, as with the knight, the advantage will dimish slightly as the game progresses and the board becomes more open. I can see why the the Janus and Chancellor are closer in values than the Bishop and Rook as the Janus will not be restricted to one colour diagonals but I am not sure why it should be worth more as the Cancellor has the ability to cover an additional two squares.

Does anyone know what the acceped relative value of the Janus piece is (given that pawn=1 / knight=3 / bishop=3 / rook=5 / queen=9 or 10)?