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29. February 2012, 20:14:52
Mort 
Michael Wolff
guardian.co.uk, Wednesday 29 February 2012 17.39 GMT

"What's done is done – even if they don't yet acknowledge that it is 100% done.

James Murdoch, hopelessly tarred by the phone-hacking scandal, exits his position as chairman of News International, the tainted News Corp subsidiary in the UK, and takes up, in his father's words, "a variety of essential corporate leadership mandates, with particular focus on important pay-TV businesses and broader international operations."

Let us first dispense with that fig leaf: James Murdoch does not have a role at News Corp. He is the shadow man. Nobody talks to him – not even, at least not meaningfully, his father. (They once spoke two or three times a day, managing the affairs of their world.) His siblings shun or pity him. He has not existed as a force, and hardly as presence, since the meltdown of the News of the World last summer.

And, to say the least, there is no possibility that he will inherit the top job.

The reality is stark: everybody in the company blames James for the terrible things that have happened in London. They blame his father for falling under James's sway – but blame James more for swaying him.

In a way, it's even starker than that: since he left the top job at BSkyB at his father's behest and took over News Corp's operations in Europe and Asia, James has become the most disliked man in the company. This is partly because, for all the obvious reasons, Murdoch's entitled children would breed a predictable resentment. But additionally, it is because James is an extraordinarily cold, abrasive know-it-all.

"Who would have thought anybody could make Lachlan look good," said one of Murdoch's close executives, referring to the contrast between James and his brother Lachlan, who once was the heir apparent – and, in his moment, another headquarters albatross. But starker still, within News Corp, there is a structural analysis of why everything in London went so wrong – with James as the faulty linchpin.

In his father's determination to elevate James, James Murdoch found himself with vastly more power than he should have had. He used it, as power-mad people are wont to do, to grab more power. He did this by pressuring his father to push out all the key executives – chief operating officer Peter Chernin, general counsel Lon Jacobs, communications chief and Rupert-right hand Gary Ginsberg – who, for so long, had so adroitly steered Rupert and the company. And they had had a tight hold on his ear – for Murdoch often tends to listen most to the last person he has spoken to.

Thus, in the end, with everybody else gone, James was calling most of the shots. His was the strategic mind dealing with the meltdown in London. Or worse: his was the strategic mind that allowed Rebekah Brooks, the former Sun editor who became the CEO of News International, to be the strategic mind.

And then, the Taylor payment: one News Corp view is that he authorised the vast settlement payment to Gordon Taylor, chief executive of the Professional Footballers Association, whose voicemail the News of the World had hacked – not so much because he was afraid of what Taylor might say, but because he thought any potential scandal might provide an excuse for American executives to take a greater oversight role of what was now his domain.

James Murdoch was not trying to cover up the company's crimes – and it never quite made sense why he would. Rather, he was playing internal politics.

Hence the smoking gun: his legal approach during his testimony before the British parliament this summer was the tried-and-true theory of "plausible deniability". If he carefully couched his testimony, then, ultimately, there would just no way of truly knowing what he knew.

Except there was. In essence, the bureaucracy, in the form of Tom Crone, the company lawyer, and Colin Myler, the News of the World editor, whom James had implicitly blamed, rebelled – saying they had told him all. And they had an email to prove it. James's only defence was that he had not read it all. Plausible deniability gone.

He should, of course, step down and out. Not be a distraction, until name is cleared, etc. He continues as an executive now because his father has great difficulties saying the obvious. And because James himself has determined that his personal interests are best served by staying on the inside and being able to pick up what scuttlebutt he can.

The story, however, is not completely over. He will not be the chief executive of News Corp, or much of anything else, but even from jail, if that is where he finds himself, he will be one of four siblings who each control 25% of their birthright company.

28. February 2012, 11:58:45
Mort 
Subject: Re: So let's get mad about illegal wiretaps but
Artful Dodger: Paedophile style acts are ok, but rape is not??

18 rape stories means what? Sorry but I don't get it. Are you trying to associate rape with being a protester?

27. February 2012, 19:32:43
Mort 
Subject: Re: I think it's despicable what they've done. But I can't say I'm "upset" over it. I certainly can understand however why some people are.
Artful Dodger: Good.

Charlotte Church and her family agreed to a £600,000 settlement today. The NI group started hacking her phone when she turned 16. 33 stories published were through her and her families phones being hacked. They even went after her mother.

"At her lowest moment, the NoW issued her with an ultimatum and coerced her into giving them an in-depth interview about her self-harming and attempted suicide. She felt she had no choice but to give the interview and was deeply traumatised by the publication of the story in the News of the World. "The NoW targeted Charlotte and her voicemail messages repeatedly, and in doing so unlawfully obtained her private medical information and details of her personal relationships with her family and friends. Even her first teenage boyfriend. They then ran stories about Charlotte using this information.

Their solicitors words.

Deputy Assistant Commissioner Sue Akers gave evidence at the Leveson Inquiry today...

""Emails indicate that payments to sources were openly referred to at the Sun," DAC Akers said.

In her written statement, DAC Akers said there was recognition that this behaviour was illegal, with reference made to staff "risking losing their pensions or job", to the need for "care" and to the need for "cash payments"".

=================
"Some OWS protesters raped"

One rapist turned out to be a convicted sex offender. As to others.. you'll always get some who will take advantage of such groupings. It doesn't mean they became OWS protesters and that made them start raping does it.

27. February 2012, 12:42:08
Mort 
Subject: Re:
Artful Dodger: Are you then upset by the phone hacking Dan?

As to Murdoch.. he's been interfering with British politics for years and many people in the UK have seen that. The use of his papers and media to support his 'friends' is not new news. Maybe to you though.

As to the kids being branded as racist... the Daily mail as you posted stated "effectively classed, rather than actually classed. Can you prove (as the onus is on you) they were, or are you just going to go by the Daily Mails word?


"The rapes were covered up. And now there are many in the OWS movement (supporters and participants) that are denying that rapes occurred even though there are police records to show differently."

Right.. from what I've read this is the case...

""These protests have a history of welcoming everyone and just assuming they're on your side," said David Meyer, a professor of sociology at the University of California at Irvine, who studies protest movements.

The recent reports of assaults have created a problem the "Occupy" movement is being challenged to address head-on.

"We always encourage victims to go through the proper channels and contact police," said Brendan Burke, 41, who helps run the security team in Zuccotti Park.

But that's not always the case. Burke admitted there have been times when members of the community have taken it upon themselves to chase off men who exposed themselves in the park.

"If there is a consensus that someone is bothering another person, the community will take care of it," he said. "Still, we always notify victims to contact police.""

Now.. It sounds like you are trying to say the protesters are rapists. I could then say as it has happened that Christians and Conservatives are rapists, as a number have been found to be rapists.

But that is not the case in either matter.

26. February 2012, 22:09:26
Mort 
Subject: Re:
Artful Dodger: So it's ok for this guy and his organisation to hack into the phone of a dead girl as well as hundreds of others and that is ok. To bribe police. to blackmail MP's and to do other matters that are against UK law.

But you then like Bill (your mentor) say I'm applauding bullying by putting words into my mouth. Golly.. I thought you hated that!!

Twisted.. just like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU-XN5kuoKE&feature=related

26. February 2012, 13:18:39
Mort 
... NOT to be confused with the "Sunday Sun" .. that paper has been in existence for about 100 years.

26. February 2012, 12:29:35
Mort 
Let us all celebrate.. the Sun on Sunday has been launched.

no more will people suffer a shortage of loo paper on Sunday. Beats the price of a two roll of Andrex by 60p!!

I wonder how many staff from NOTW who were sacrificed by Murdoch to save face will now work for this new (*cough*) paper.

24. February 2012, 18:46:10
Mort 
Jon Stewart Destroys Bill O'Reilly Over Common

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gonNsAHMAFM&feature=related

24. February 2012, 16:53:53
Mort 
Ok.. I need an update. What swear words can we use on this board??

24. February 2012, 16:50:33
Mort 
Ann Coulter.
Hannity & Colmes, June 20, 2001
"God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, 'Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It's yours."

Sept. 12, 2001
"We should invade their [Muslim] countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."

Tell me she's really a Satanist.. it makes more sense!!

23. February 2012, 21:06:33
Mort 
Security at a U.S. school has been stepped up after a racist video rant by two of its white female students went viral.

Santaluces High School, in Lantana, Florida, is on high alert for possible retaliation attacks after the two girls poked fun at the way black pupils 'talk' and wear their weave hair extensions.

It comes hot on the heels of similar footage posted by two teenagers from nearby Gainesville last week who received death threats after also making disparaging comments against black students.

In this latest disturbing video, the girls start by saying white students 'turn black' as soon as they enter the school, claiming you 'catch the disease'.

At one point they add: 'Guys, if you're watching this video now, and you have a weave, and you're black, please be offended - because we're making fun of you. It ends with one of the girls saying: 'Don't post this on Facebook because all our friends are black.' They chuckle, flash peace signs and say 'peace and love'.

A district education spokesman said the school, which is 27 per cent white, 35 per cent black and 33 per cent Hispanic, was aware of the video.

A statement read: "Appropriate action will be taken according to district policy. Racist comments are unacceptable and have no place in our school district." And The Palm Beach Post newspaper said the school was stepping up its security after the girls' video went viral.

School Police Chief Jim Kelly added that, because social media is so new, it did not have a policy in place to deal with such incident. But, he said, he would not be looking into it to develop one.

The video is the second in a week to outrage America.

Last week two teenage girls were forced to drop out of their high school in Gainesville, when they began getting death threats after their 15-minute racist rant about 'black people'. The girls cheerily complained about the African-American students in their classes and dragged out a litany traditional racist stereotypes.


Will the girls parents be paying for the extra security costs?

22. February 2012, 18:30:17
Mort 
Illinois
According to state law, it is illegal to speak English. The officially recognized language is "American".

Indiana
Mustaches are illegal if the bearer has a tendency to habitually kiss other humans.

21. February 2012, 21:59:53
Mort 
Subject: Re:
Bernice: That could be said of just about everyone on this board. The only thing that differentiates us all is "why?"

21. February 2012, 21:37:35
Mort 
In December 2006, it was revealed that a The Guardian journalist, Ian Cobain, had worked undercover in the BNP for seven months, becoming the party's central London organiser.[68][69] Among the accusations made by the paper was that the BNP used "techniques of secrecy and deception ... in its attempt to conceal its activities and intentions from the public". It asserted that the BNP operated with a "network of false identities" and organised rendezvous points to allow members to be directed to "clandestine meetings". Party members were directed to avoid "any racist or anti-semitic language in public". Cobain also claimed that the membership in central London had expanded beyond the party's traditional range, now including "dozens of company directors, computing entrepreneurs, bankers and estate agents, and a handful of teachers".[68]

Following the report, the campaign group Unite Against Fascism called for ballerina Simone Clarke to be dismissed from the English National Ballet, because her views on immigration were "incompatible with a leading arts institution such as the English National Ballet" and because she had "used her position to support a party which fosters division".[70] Clarke said: "the BNP is the only party to take a stand against immigration".[70]

The BNP was investigated by the Electoral Commission in 2007, after The Guardian revealed that it had set up a front organisation to raise money from sympathisers in the United States.

"....The EDL leadership has estimated that the EDL has 100,000 members.[31] A research group has given a lower figure of 25,000 to 35,000 members.[32]...."

21. February 2012, 21:28:56
Mort 
Subject: Re: call the centre of Autralia
Bernice: Is that Australia or Austria??

21. February 2012, 21:27:49
Mort 
Subject: Re:
Modified by Mort (21. February 2012, 21:29:16)
Artful Dodger: It is a point when the source presents data that will include children taught that being white is 'special'. It is a point when you still have homophobic parents and groups saying be gay is against their version of God.

21. February 2012, 20:57:07
Mort 
Subject: Re:
Artful Dodger: Nick Griffin on Question Time "egg on yer face"???

"In total, 34,000 nursery, primary and secondary pupils — including more than 20,000 pupils aged 11 or younger — were effectively classed as bigots for so-called ‘hate speech’"

Could you provide info on how many of the children were from families who support the likes of the BNP or EDL?

21. February 2012, 19:42:09
Mort 
...be noted I could find countless articles, but rather it be just read than worry about keeping up with the extra posting!!

21. February 2012, 19:23:12
Mort 
Subject: Re: OMG, the Brits are all nuts. Political correctness gone mad.
Artful Dodger: Like the people in America who base their politics and science on a book.

21. February 2012, 18:19:13
Mort 
Subject: Re: And then they punish him.
Artful Dodger: Noooo. no comparison. It just seems silly to get all worked up over a school kid standing in front of his class, while there are many worse things happening.

A parody in fact

21. February 2012, 14:44:55
Mort 
Subject: Re: It is just human nature. We always want things bigger.
Bwild: We have land, just in some cases it's locked up in planning arguments/debates.

eg.. there is a big piece of built on unused land a couple of miles from us. It is going to rebuilt on houses wise, but not for some years. One of the problems is many of the structures were built using asbestos in various ways.

It is harder with such pieces of land to build on than with virgin plots as you know.

10 months? I thought it was summer! Who's saying December?

21. February 2012, 13:27:09
Mort 
Modified by Mort (21. February 2012, 13:27:36)
A lawmaker has refused to sign a resolution celebrating the Girl Scouts' 100th anniversary as the group has become a 'radicalised organisation'.

Republican Representative Bob Morris from Fort Wayne, Indiana claims they promote a 'homosexual lifestyle', transgenders and the values of Planned Parenthood. Morris wrote to his fellow House Republicans to explain why he would not be supporting the resolution, which thanked the Girl Scouts for its 'strong positive influence on the American woman'.

But after researching the Girl Scouts on the internet, Morris said he found accusations that the group worked with Planned Parenthood. Another of his disturbing' finds was that they allowed transgender girls to join.

...."Dear Fellow Representatives:

This past week I was asked to sign a House Resolution recognizing the 100th Anniversary of Girl Scouts of America. After talking to some well-informed constituents, I did a small amount of web-based research, and what I found is disturbing

The Girl Scouts of America and their worldwide partner, World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts (WAGGGS), have entered into a close strategic affiliation with Planned Parenthood.

Abundant evidence proves that the agenda of Planned Parenthood includes sexualizing young girls through the Girl Scouts, which is quickly becoming a tactical arm of Planned Parenthood. Denver Auxiliary Bishop James D. Conley of Denver last year warned parents that 'membership in the Girl Scouts could carry the danger of making their daughters more receptive to the pro-abortion agenda'.

Many parents are abandoning the Girl Scouts because they promote homosexual lifestyles. Of the fifty role models listed, only three have a briefly-mentioned religious background – all the rest are feminists, lesbians, or Communists.

Boys who decide to claim a 'transgender' life-style are permitted to become a member of a Girl Scout troop, performing crafts with the girls and participate in overnight and camping activities – just like any real girl.

The fact that the Honorary President of Girl Scouts of America is Michelle Obama should give each of us reason to pause before our individual or collective endorsement of the organization.

I challenge each of you to examine these matters and to decide carefully whether or not to sign the resolution.

Respectfully,

Bob Morris...."

USA Conservative PC??

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2104108/Lawmaker-Bob-Morris-refuses-support-Girl-Scouts-100th-anniversary-promote-homosexuality-encourage-sex.html

21. February 2012, 13:18:52
Mort 
Subject: Re: It is just human nature. We always want things bigger.
Übergeek 바둑이: The main reason our average size 'houses' have dropped is the amount of flats being built for first time owners or commuters. There has been some 'splitting' of old large plots into multi house development, but that is now being frowned upon. Most older developments/'estates' have plenty of space, some have even won awards and had other European developers copying the layout and form.

21. February 2012, 13:06:24
Mort 
Subject: Re: And then they punish him.
Artful Dodger:
..."He was made to stand in front of the class and make an apology while his mother, Jane Hennessey, was called in by the head of Purford Green Junior School in Harlow, Essex...."

Not exactly water boarding.. although you think that is fine. Or Apple using slave factories in China to make enormous profits, but you think it's fine as long as the profits are enormous. It's not capitalism's fault the workers are committing suicide because of the 12+ hour shifts they are working... It's communism's fault!!

Now I'm not comparing the kids ordeal of having to stand in front of the class to sweat shop slavery.. In no way am I!!

21. February 2012, 06:00:35
Mort 
Subject: Re: But in America, we did have Japanese spies. So to deal with it they took all homes away from the innocent Japanese Americans and sent them to camps. That was immoral.
Artful Dodger: But you are comparing them....

"ou can't argue FOR a policy or a LAW when such results in immoral actions. It's simply WRONG on ANY LEVEL. Whether rounding up the Japanese or the Jews or even something as "small" as falsely accusing a little kid of something for which he is innocent, that is wrong. And you know it. Or at least you should."

So stop saying you are not... it's just silly and dumb.

20. February 2012, 20:01:44
Mort 
Subject: Re: But in America, we did have Japanese spies. So to deal with it they took all homes away from the innocent Japanese Americans and sent them to camps. That was immoral.
Artful Dodger: It's still SILLY to compare the incarceration of Japanese policy wise with that which is just intended to cut down on bullying at school.

It is not anywhere like the same.

"It's no wonder your country is in such a crappy state of affairs."

And yet neo nazi groups are legal in the USA... ??

20. February 2012, 15:13:58
Mort 
Subject: Re: But in America, we did have Japanese spies. So to deal with it they took all homes away from the innocent Japanese Americans and sent them to camps. That was immoral.
Artful Dodger: Yes.. but this is hardly the same situation. The analogy quite frankly I find silly.

19. February 2012, 23:16:44
Mort 
Subject: Re: this is how utterly STUPID authorities can get. Apparently, they are STUCK on STUPID.
Artful Dodger: The authorities are required to log events even if they amount to nothing. These are schools and that is the law. This has happened due to the amount of bullying that has occurred, which at the time no-one paid attention to.. till some school children committed suicide with a direct link established to the bullying in the schools that was being ignored.

So some mistakes and over reactions occur in order to save lives of kids. But that is not important to the Daily Mail, just the over reaction.

19. February 2012, 18:23:30
Mort 
Subject: Re: this is how utterly STUPID authorities can get. Apparently, they are STUCK on STUPID.
Modified by Mort (19. February 2012, 18:23:47)
Artful Dodger: Nicely stated in the comments...

"Any comment perceived to be racist HAS to be logged. The form she was asked to sign would not label her son a racist but state his involvement in a racist incident with a clear and accurate description of the incident, including quotes (the forms usually go out to parents of all involved, including any victim). This is standard procedure. Teachers and school staff are not in the habit of accusing young children of racism, and none of us know the context the 'quote' was said in, or any other background information, The LEA gather stats of racist incidents from schools so it would not be in their interest to falsely report racist incidents. Sounds like the parent is blowing this way out of proportion to me,which is ironic since that is what she is accusing the school of."

- Cal, Enfield, 19/2/2012 8:13


Likewise the Daily Mail

18. February 2012, 13:46:38
Mort 
Subject: Re: Imagine...having your rubbish bin outside the back door and having to transport it THROUGH the house on rubbish day
Bernice: I think you just have a strange imagination. No-one does that unless they are very strange, as it is not needed.

"but then from what I have seen they all live on the footpath anyway"

We have wheelie bins. They by law are not allowed to sit on the footpath, except on the night before collection day.

18. February 2012, 13:40:10
Mort 
Subject: Re: It is just human nature. We always want things bigger.
Übergeek 바둑이: ... land here in the UK is more expensive. More recent building projects have in many being squeezing in more units per plot.

"Considering winters here, heating those houses uses a lot of energy."

It does. We've seen in the UK more guidelines on what is the minimum effective insulation in the attic, which has basically doubled. This was done after thermal imaging tests showed that roofs were still leaking a significant loss. Bigger the roof area.. bigger the loss.

17. February 2012, 19:17:30
Mort 
Subject: Re: It is just human nature. We always want things bigger.
Übergeek 바둑이: No. Not human.. partly yes. Yet philosophically just our animal instinct to build perverted into 'things' that really have no meaning...

"Houses built in the last 10 years are easily three times as big as homes built in the 1950s."

Not in the UK they aren't.

16. February 2012, 11:02:21
Mort 
Subject: Re: gravity is free also!
Bwild: It was a joke!!

Birds though through soaring or ground effect (skimming) can delay greatly the energy they need to use.

15. February 2012, 20:13:42
Mort 
Subject: Re: I say drill and tap ALL sources of energy.
Artful Dodger: I can we gather all the PR folk from the Republican 'candidate' race, and place them in a big biomass plant?

15. February 2012, 20:08:09
Mort 
Subject: Re: gravity is free also!
Bwild: Yep... especially at terminal velocity!!

15. February 2012, 14:50:50
Mort 
Subject: Re: Free energy
SL-Mark: It's not creating energy out of nothing, just taking advantage of natural phenomena, such as some of the devices mentioned which can obtain charge from the potential difference between one end buried and the other at a certain distance above ground. Reminds me of the old crystal radio sets.

14. February 2012, 22:39:16
Mort 
Subject: Re: Free energy
SL-Mark: Would the way some birds use thermals to gain height to be able to travel further be considered using 'free' energy?

.... They still have to fly.

14. February 2012, 21:05:15
Mort 

14. February 2012, 19:00:54
Mort 
Subject: Re: Sorry, they don't work and certainly don't give free energy.
SL-Mark: Seem there is some disagreement over that. Plus more out than in is not free, just a reduction. If you get 300% more out then that is a good thing. Nuclear power is not 'free' energy, it consumes power, but creates more just as with all our present systems. Even green takes some power to create the collection devices.

"Your computer hard drive probably uses them too!"

Yes they do. Even might take my unused one apart to have a look at them.

"There is no magic in these magnets, only a strong magnetic field."

I didn't say it was magic, just the application of science.

14. February 2012, 18:36:22
Mort 
Subject: Re: but it's only a very SMALL portion of the US energy needs
Artful Dodger: Yes, the position of 'hot spots' limits where geothermal can be used.

"Either way, they won't meet the worlds needs."

As part of the whole package of renewable energy, it in areas of good heat locality (eg Yellowstone park) you have a great potential.

"Just a small population. It's isolated."

Quite a bit of the population of the world lives near volcanoes and/or tectonic plates.

14. February 2012, 11:36:07
Mort 
Subject: Re: It's not that complicated. You enjoy arguing, for arguing sake. The quote explains the question. You made the statement as though someone else had used the statement as some sort of fact
Modified by Mort (14. February 2012, 12:01:33)
rod03801: Oh no I didn't. you just presumed I did.

"You enjoy arguing, for arguing sake."

Yes you do.

14. February 2012, 11:34:17
Mort 
Subject: Re: you can cite all the isolated green energy "successes" you want but that won't prove that the entire world can be sustained by these technologies. In fact, they can't.
Modified by Mort (14. February 2012, 15:45:04)
Artful Dodger:

"Five major geothermal power plants exist in Iceland, which produce
approximately 26.2% (2010)[1] of the nation's energy. In addition,
geothermal heating meets the heating and hot water requirements of
approximately 87% of all buildings in Iceland
. Apart from geothermal
energy, 73.8% of the nation’s electricity was generated by hydro power,
and 0.1% from fossil fuels."


... you seemed to miss that part, so I've made it clearer.

14. February 2012, 11:31:38
Mort 
Subject: Re: Which journal did you read that in? Thought they had stopped publishing the 'Sunday Sport' :)
SL-Mark: Actually I caught glimpses of it through my science subscription choices on youtube. It's through using neodymium magnets. The same ones used in wind turbines.

13. February 2012, 22:09:42
Mort 
Subject: Re:lol, yes Newt is all for slave labor.
Jack: Like California's version of the 3 strikes law.

"Newt wants to go to the moon to, maybe we can send him there without an environment suit."

Only if it encourages the placement of a base there to look for him... But with an undisclosed primary role of looking into Helium3 mining!!

13. February 2012, 21:49:49
Mort 
Newt Gingrich wants child labour brought back!!

WTH

13. February 2012, 21:29:41
Mort 
Subject: Re: But stopping using fossil fuels all at once certainly won't get us there either.
Jack: Like free solar powered electric car recharging points.

"Also not listening to corporate lobby groups that support nothing but propaganda on climate change for their own personal profits."

unlikely.. too many politicians rely on the extra cash to feed their greedy lifestyles.

13. February 2012, 21:06:39
Mort 
Subject: Re: But stopping using fossil fuels all at once certainly won't get us there either.
rod03801: Is there a point to the question?

13. February 2012, 20:34:03
Mort 
Subject: Re: But stopping using fossil fuels all at once certainly won't get us there either.
rod03801: Yes.

13. February 2012, 20:28:12
Mort 
Subject: Re: But stopping using fossil fuels all at once certainly won't get us there either.
rod03801:

But WHO said anything about stopping all at once?
I don't recall anyone suggesting THAT.

13. February 2012, 20:26:49
Mort 
Subject: Re: hydro is the way to go.
Bwild: Pumped power systems are essential for load balancing within our modern power systems.

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