Artful Dodger: I don't think you can answer.. just play games as you have. When you prove you can answer.. I'll ask a question... maybe next time I'll get an answer.. but I doubt it.

Dropper as in pipette? I used them in chemistry lessons.

Artful Dodger: many of a few is still a few.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aboZctrHfK8 to help you understand.

Artful Dodger: I didn't. You did... must be your alien genes.

Artful Dodger: Including the pan dimensional beings?

I guess the guide will need updating yet again!!

... everyone? all 7 billion people on the planet??

Sorry... the point has been lost.

It must be that interpretation problem.. it looked like your usual con speak

Artful Dodger: I did ask you if you thought it was ok for the government to support low wage employees via food stamps and welfare instead of the companies paying what people need to live on.

But I guess, if US firms did... more jobs would go abroad.

What do you think?

....... Politicians!!

Vikings: ..... that does not sound right. It sounds rude!!

Artful Dodger: I rest my case.

"You may as well have asked me for my thoughts on alien space beings."

With the Aliens listening in on your brain via the implants...

Artful Dodger: You did... maybe a handful of bullet ants??

I stated a fair point about the government subsidising American businesses at the tax payers expense, yet you want all welfare and food stamps gone.

If so, then the subsidies in terms of support to the low waged has to end as well.

How?

I rest my case.

Artful Dodger: skipping the point AgAiN ......

So, you are happy for companies to pay low wages and for the government to pick up the tab via food stamps and tax credits?

Yes or no?

Artful Dodger: So.. at last the companies will have to pay a fair wage to low paid workers instead of the government subsidising the American economy.... a fair point.

As for claim support to many, but you won't see the point!!

..... Half the time I've seen his show the point seems pointless.. other times, history seems to be rewritten under the guise of Bill, Fox and Murdoch's current agenda as decreed by those who are now friends of Murdoch.

... but the propaganda machine carries on.. well at least for now. If the charges stick as it seems they will. The Murdoch Klingons will have to kling elsewhere.

Mousetrap: .... I know what you mean... worked on a hospital ward sometime back.. someone hadn't marked a room as having a dead body in it.. It's a shock that first time!!

Mousetrap: nails and hair continue growing after death... I wonder if bald patches grow back??

Mousetrap: Aye... and the singing voices.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJNZNwxEzE4

I wonder why nose hair grows so quick.... it's fascinating.

..............The Macquarie Fields riots were a series of disturbances across southwest Sydney in February 2005 which were referred to as a riot by both the Parliament of New South Wales and the media.

The riots were sparked by a high speed police pursuit on 25 February through the Glenquarie housing estate in the Sydney western suburb of Macquarie Fields. The chase resulted in the driver, 20-year-old Jesse Kelly, crashing the stolen vehicle into a tree and killing his two passengers, 17-year-old Dylan Raywood and 19-year-old Matthew Robertson. The trio had been under electronic surveillance for several days beforehand.[1] Certain circumstances around the riots including the fatal police pursuit in a low-income area were seen to be a repeat of the riots that took place in Redfern, New South Wales during the previous year.

.............Bathurst Riots, also known as the Bathurst motorcycle race riots and Easter Motorcycle Riots. These were a series of annual riots between 1980-1985 involving motorsport spectators, motorcycle riders and the New South Wales Police Force Tactical Response Group during the Australian motorcycle Grand Prix.

....................The main anti-globalisation protest was organised by the StopG20 coalition for Saturday November 18.[14] This march stopped at the police barricades in Russell Street where a festive carnival atmosphere prevailed. Some protesters moved to other streets[15], where confrontations with the police occurred, while most protesters who went to the main rally and march went home never being aware of the confrontations on other streets until they watched the news that evening.[16]

On Collins and Russell Streets, barricades were ripped down and pushed at riot police who were called in to help quell the situation. A militant group of protesters known as the Arterial Bloc[17][18], dressed in white clothing with hoods covering their faces, collected industrial bins and dumpsters and used Melbourne's tram tracks to slide them into barricades and police, resulting in minor injuries to several police, the most serious being a broken wrist. At one stage a police riot truck was attacked with its windows smashed.[19] By 15:00 local time, the nearby Grand Hyatt had gone into 'lock down'. The organizers of the protesters had expected up to 10,000 people to come,[20] however the number of people that showed was slightly over 3,000.

.............On Friday 26 November 2004 the results of the autopsy report were read to a public meeting by then Palm Island Council Chairwoman Erykah Kyle. Although the autopsy report was medical and did not state what caused his death, it did list possible causes which included that the multiple injuries sustained could have been consistent with him falling on a shallow concrete step at the Palm Island watchhouse.[2][4] The deceased was 181 cm tall and weighed 74 kilograms. Hurley was 201 cm tall and weighed 115 kilograms.[9] The injury may have been caused by Hurley falling on the deceased.[10] The Coroner later stated that the autopsy was "far too sensitive and private" to be publicly released.[11] Subsequent to the autopsy report reading a succession of angry young Aboriginal men spoke to the crowd and encouraged immediate action be taken against the police. Mulrunji's death was repeatedly branded "cold-blooded murder". A riot erupted involving an estimated 400 people, half of them school children.

The local courthouse, police station and police barracks were burned down. 18 local police had to repeatedly retreat; firstly receding from the station to the residential barracks, when the barracks were also set alight they (and their families) withdrew to the hospital and barricaded themselves in. Cars and machinery were driven onto the runway, blocking all aircraft movement. Even the (Aboriginal) volunteer fire brigade had stones thrown at them while they tried to put out the courthouse and police station fires.[2

Bernice: What's GBS? Who tells you it's painful?

1867 is an example of an element in British history ... at that time most Australian white folk were British. British convicts who were at that time brought up in dire conditions leading to ((ok at that time most things were a crime for relocation purposes)) high crime rates.

"Why can't you face up to the fact that POMS are renowned for their rioting...whether it be football, or for any other small minded reason the louts wish to "celebrate""

... we got taught in history classes about the likes of the the 'Battle of Central Station'... where soldiers went on the rampage in Sydney in 1916. Such was the effect (I now read) that hotels in areas such as New South Wales introduced early closing to stop it happening again.

Or the 1996 Parliament house riot described as a "very sad day in the history of the Australian political process"

....Every country has riots from time to time. Just because that's all that hits the news in down under does not make it the norm.

Mousetrap: Well... they were British until forced emigration. And the UK has a strong history of local breweries. It was at one time safer to drink the local beer instead of water before we learnt about diseases and not to .. um.. do it upstream.

Gotta love history

Mousetrap: I wonder which local brewery will have it's name up above the door. It seems loyalty to a brewery is strong down under!!

"Drunkenness was a prevailing vice. Even children were to be seen in the streets intoxicated. On Sundays, men and women might be observed standing round the public-house doors, waiting for the expiration of the hours of public worship in order to continue their carousing. As for the condition of the prison population, that, indeed, is indescribable. Notwithstanding the severe punishment for sly grog selling, it was carried on to a large extent. Men and women were found intoxicated together, and a bottle of brandy was considered to be cheaply bought for 20 lashes... All that the vilest and most bestial of human creatures could invent and practise, was in this unhappy country invented and practised without restraint and without shame"

— Marcus Clarke - For the Term of His Natural Life, 1867

Bernice: This video contains content from Channel 4, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.

Mousetrap: ... http://www.channel4.com/programmes/shameless-usa

"....Fifty years after the US supreme court passed the landmark decision of Brown v Board of Education, which concluded that the policy of separate schools for white and black children was unequal and unconstitutional, thus outlawing segregation, Milwaukee is the most segregated city for blacks and whites in the country, according to the US census bureau. The November 2002 report measured residential segregation in the nation's larger cities using five indices, calculating clustering, concentration, centralisation, isolation and dissimilarity in the living patterns of different racial groups. The most widely used was the dissimilarity index, which determined what proportion of a minority population would have to be dispersed within a given city for each neighbourhood to have a representative racial make-up. In Milwaukee, 82% of the black population would have to move for each area to reflect the city's racial diversity.

Milwaukee narrowly beat Detroit to finish top of the nation's segregation league. Most black people shrugged at the news. "Not much has changed here in the last 40 years, so it didn't surprise me," says Allison. ....

....The local congressman declared he would call for legislation to provide greater scrutiny of the census bureau. "We don't want a federal agency coming out with skewed data," he said.

John Gurda, a local historian, does not share that indignation, but questions a survey that places Milwaukee so far ahead of other cities he knows with strong levels of segregation, such as Boston (17th) and Washington DC (23rd). "It depends how you skin the cat," he says, referring to data selection. "But there's an American racial problem, and it's obvious here. To some degree, perception drives reality."

If the differing perceptions of April's mayoral elections are anything to go by, it is difficult to see how the city could be any more racially divided. The two candidates in the run-off were Marvin Pratt, an African-American who was already acting mayor, and Tom Barrett, a former US congressman who is white. Eight days before the election, Pratt was charged with five civil counts of breaking campaign finance rules, primarily, it seemed, due to sloppy accounting.

Both the local paper and his opponent seized on the charges, which Pratt described as "mistakes not misdeeds"; he was fined $2,500. Most African-Americans regarded these attacks as racially motivated; most whites saw them as justified. On polling day, the vote split almost entirely along racial lines, with whites voting for Barrett and blacks and Hispanics for Pratt. Milwaukee has a population of around 600,000 - 45% are white, 38% are black and 12% are Hispanic. Pratt lost the election, 46% to 54%. His campaign slogan had been, "It's Time." ...."

Knowing American history as it is taught in the UK... I ain't surprised.

Former Delaware Senate candidate Christine O’Donnell walked off CNN’s “Piers Morgan Tonight” Wednesday night after being grilled on her thoughts about masturbation and same-sex marriage.

The interview opened with clips of O’Donnell’s appearances on MTV’s “Sex in the 90′s.” Asked about the appearances, O’Donnell stood by her statements on sex, but denied that they remain relevant.

“Well they’re not [relevant],” O’Donnell said, “because there aren’t laws outlawing sex, and if there are they should be on the local level, as I make the case for local control as opposed to federal control.”

Morgan then asked, “are you still a supporter of total abstinence?” O’Donnell responded: “are you the pro-masturbation talk show host?”

The host pressed further, asking, “have you committed lust in your heart?” O’Donnell laughingly said, “lets not even go there.”

The interview grew tense when O’Donnell was pressed to explain her position on gay marriage. After unsuccessful attempts by Morgan to get an answer, O’Donnell said, “I’m not running for office, ask Michele Bachmann what she thinks.”

Morgan inquired further, asking, “Why are you being so weird about this?”

“I’m not being weird, you’re being a little rude,” O’Donnell retorted. “Don’t you think as a host, when I say ‘this is what I want to talk about’ that’s what we should address?” Morgan replied, “Not really, no. You’re a politician.”

Artful Dodger: relativity... Interpretation.

Bernice: Maybe we in the UK know that is a cherry picked extreme. Probably the area is one of those experiments in housing developed by some architect on coke that now generally are being torn down.

out of the 100+ of shops in the area I live in (which was built and owned by the council originally, only 3 use shutters.. One being a chemist. There is very little crime, a great community, and we look out for each other.

Artful Dodger: Saying that x is not expected because of y is not answering a topic. That knowing some social dynamics and how some social reactions within communities is expected is not an answer and may explain why something is not big news?

Artful Dodger: Isn't that relative? Just as I think you'd classify the UK Conservative Party as being liberal!!

as for point.. who does stay on point? N' my point from my knowledge is likely to be different from your point due to a different environment politically. Some points I don't just get as they don't look like points rather than just expected reactions to actions... Newton's law of motions do apply to humans in some ways.

Have you got that point yet?

Artful Dodger: He did flush out some communists out of the closet. He might have even flushed a real threat communist sympathiser out.

...... yet he still persecuted many regardless of what you say Americans have the right to..... freedom of speech and the right to think.

"but elsewhere you meant it as an attack on other thinking people. It's not parinoia if someone is really out to get you."

thinking about what.... their next book or DVD? Since 1949, war between the two main camps of the civilised world was not possible. First strike was an automatic third strike and out.

Artful Dodger: I did know you know.. Thankfully the McCarthy paranoia that the US gov did back for a while has long gone. That degree of persecution in the USA over being "..a leftie...", "...socialist.."...or a "..lib.." died thanks to McCarthy's rabid OTT fanaticism.

fyi... The communist party was made out to a loony left group here by the establishment... but in the end, most in the UK worked out it was propagandist talk. Nukes didn't care what party you belonged to. N' the UK like Europe was bang in the middle.

Artful Dodger: Yes?

Artful Dodger: well then it is subject to your bodies hydrochloric acid, and dissolve.. just like a fly in a jug plant.

Artful Dodger: Milk keeps better in cold.. so does meat.

Marching.. left right... left right..

Is it a communist conspiracy

Artful Dodger: Anything is left to you

An Unverifiable Mess
Time and time again, I have had emails from researchers who have taken random samples of names from the list and Google searched them for more information. I urge others to do the same. What you'll quickly find is either no information, very little information or information substantiating the fact that the vast majority of signers are completely unqualified in the area of climate change science.
For example,
"Munawwar M. Akhtar" - no info other than the fact that he is a signatory on the petition.
"Fred A. Allehoff" - no info other than the fact that he is a signatory on the petition.
"Ernest J. Andberg" - no info other than the fact that he is a signatory on the petition.
"Joseph J. Arx" - no info other than the fact that he is a signatory on the petition.
"Adolph L. Amundson" - a paper by Amundson on the "London Tunnel Water Treatment System Acid Mine Drainage." [PDF]
"Henry W. Apfelbach" - an Orthopedic Surgeon
"Joe R. Arechavaleta" - runs an Architect and Engineering company.
And this is only names I picked in the "A's." I could go on, but you get my point. The list is very difficult to verify as a third-party, but this hasn't stopped the Petition from bouncing around the internet and showing up in mainstream media.
Given all this it seems to me that anyone touting this as proof that "global warming is a hoax" completely misunderstands the process of scientific endeavor or has completely exhausted any real argument that rightfully brings into to doubt the reality of climate change.
Or, then again, they could just be in it for the money.

Artful Dodger: Anything is left to you

The petition first emerged in April 1998 and was organized by Art Robinson of the self-proclaimed "Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine" (OISM) [their headquarters are the Photo Inset].
Along with the Exxon-backed George C. Marshall Institute, Robinson's group co-published the infamous "Oregon Petition" claiming to have collected 17,000 signatories to a document arguing against the realities of global warming.
The petition and the documents included were all made to look like official papers from the prestigious National Academy of Science. They weren't, and this attempt to mislead has been well-documented.
Along with the petition there was a cover letter from Dr. Fred Seitz (who has since died), a notorious climate change denier (and big tobacco scientist) who over 30 years ago was the president of the National Academy of Science.
Also attached to the petition was an apparent "research paper" titled Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide. The paper was made to mimic what a research paper would look like in the National Academy's prestigious Proceedings of the National Academy journal. The authors of the paper were Robinson, Sallie Baliunas, Willie Soon (both oil-backed scientists) and Robinson's son Zachary. With the signature of a former NAS president and a research paper that appeared to be published in one of the most prestigious science journals in the world, many scientists were duped into signing a petition based on a false impression.

Artful Dodger:

Artful Dodger: What does a scientist who's speciality is dermatology know about climatology?

Please.. stop make irrelevant statements.

Artful Dodger: So? I said the KKK... can you find that 60% of them voted for Obama? Or are you doing what you accuse me of, and CHANGING the subject

The 30,000 Global Warming Petition Is Easily-Debunked Propaganda

To say that the oft-touted "30,000 Global Warming Petition" project stinks would be the understatement of the year.
I thought it would be timely to once again break down this flawed piece of global warming denier propaganda after it was mentioned last night in Daily Show host Jon Stewart's interview with US Energy Secretary of Energy, Dr. Stephen Chu.
.1% of Signers Have a Background in Climatology
The Petition Project website offers a breakdown of the areas of expertise of those who have signed the petition.
In the realm of climate science it breaks it breaks down as such:
Atmospheric Science (113)
Climatology (39)
Meteorology (341)
Astronomy (59)
Astrophysics (26)
So only .1% of the individuals on the list of 30,000 signatures have a scientific background in Climatology. To be fair, we can add in those who claim to have a background in Atmospheric Science, which brings the total percentage of signatories with a background in climate change science to a whopping .5%.
The page does not break out the names of those who do claim to be experts in Climatology and Atmospheric Science, which makes even that .5% questionable [see my section on "unverifiable mess" below].
This makes an already questionable list seem completely insignificant given the nature of scientific endeavor.
When I think I'm having chest pains I don't go to the dermatologist, I go to a cardiologist because it would be absurd to go to skin doctor for a heart problem. It would be equally absurd to look to a scientist with a background in medicine (of which there are 3,046 on the petition) for an expert opinion on the science of climate change. With science broken down into very narrow specialties a scientific expert in one specialty does not make that person an automatic authority in all things science.
In this way the logic of the 30,000 petition is completely flawed, which isn't surprising given its questionable beginnings.

Artful Dodger: No... they are white and would only vote for a white guy... preferably a black hating, Jew hating white conservative. But a white guy nether the less... they would never vote for someone who's gay or otherwise disturbs them.... unless the only alternative is a black guy.... or not vote.

It's all the same and not big news.

Artful Dodger: ..... The KKK will vote for Obama at the next election?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvgbnVhtrts&

"Predicting Urban Crime? There's an Equation for That "