Artful Dodger: ..... You still don't get accounts.... You cannot cherry pick, it don't work unless you are a moron when it comes to accounts. You can quote 'bites' but they will be still regardless of how much you use them just distortions.

Like I could say...."from under 1%".... to your "So maybe you're saying that they should raise those rates to be more in line with the US rates?"

But to answer that you'd have to look up more on the other countries tax rates and the variations in rates as well as the US variations.



btw.. "In addition, tax rates imposed below the federal level vary widely by jurisdiction, from under 1% to over 16%."

United States federal income tax incorporates an alternative minimum tax. This tax is computed at a lower tax rate (20% for corporations), and imposed based on a modified version of taxable income. Modifications include longer depreciation lives assets under MACRS, adjustments related to costs of developing natural resources, and an addback of certain tax exempt interest.[52]

Corporations may also be subject to additional taxes in certain circumstances. These include taxes on excess accumulated undistributed earnings and personal holding companies[53] and restrictions on graduated rates for personal service corporations.[54]

Some states, such as New Jersey, impose alternative taxes based on measures other than taxable income. Among such measures are gross income, pipeline revenues, gross receipts, and various asset or capital measures. In addition, some states impose a tax on capital of corporations or on shares issued and outstanding. The U. S. state of Michigan previously taxed businesses on an alternative base that did not allow compensation of employees as a tax deduction and allowed full deduction of the cost of production assets upon acquisition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_tax_in_the_United_States

Taxes are never simple regarding corporations.

Cherry picked figures of tax rates that, like in the income tax are variable are not figures. The rates vary from 15% to 33% with the 100,000 to 335,000 bracket as follows.

$22,250 + 39% Of the amount over 100,000

With as usual deductions for state taxes and anything else under law (or not) that corporations can get away with... such as tax credits!!

But us who point out such things are just called point arguers for just looking up facts than cooking the figures.

"It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options... Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues."

I guess Conservative memories in the US (and elsewhere) are very short.

Artful Dodger: I was talking about an article I read on the Fox News website about the downgrading, and how certain details of why the USA was downgraded were left out.. Nothing to do with anything you've posted.

Btw.. good on Fox for cherry picking bits out of Standard & Poor's report

Artful Dodger:

The decision by Standard & Poor's to push America into the second division, when it comes to trustworthiness about paying its bills, puts the USA below the UK, Germany, France, Singapore, Finland and 14 other countries.

The reason it gives is what all America has been saying: Washington doesn't work. The S&P report says: "The political brinkmanship of recent months highlights what we see as America's governance and policymaking becoming less stable, less effective, and less predictable than what we previously believed."

They say they think dealing with the debt remains a "contentious and fitful process". They say no-one is serious about dealing with the programmes that eat up money, like Medicare, health care for the elderly.

They single out Republicans for ruling out tax rises. "It appears that for now, new revenues have dropped down on the menu of policy options... Compared with previous projections, our revised base case scenario now assumes that the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts, due to expire by the end of 2012, remain in place. We have changed our assumption on this because the majority of Republicans in Congress continue to resist any measure that would raise revenues."

My colleague Robert Peston has an excellent blog on the economics of this, but what about the politics?

President Obama will doubtless use the occasion to scold Congress again and urge politicians to come together not as Republicans or Democrats but as Americans. Some may be chastened enough to do that for a while.

But is fair to put all the burden on the legislators, as though failure to agree a consensus is a moral lapse? The president is fond of saying that Americans vote for divided government not dysfunctional government.

Yet the system, a much-loved relic of a different age, constructed for reasons little to do with the 21st Century, is almost designed to bring about dysfunctional government. The combination of a strict separation of legislature and executive, plus two-yearly congressional elections, all but encourages having different parties in control of different bits of government.

......... well lets blame everyone in Washington (or is linked to) then. Obama, Congress, the Senate, Lobbyists, Democrats and Republicans.

... The Tea Party, Murdoch via Fox and any other group that is only thinking about a few extra dollars in their wallet and not their country. Or puts politics or ideologies above that of the needs of the USA.

.. 31 years ago a process started that reduced the taxes from the rich by 35% to 35% from 70%, effectively reducing tax income from 70% of Americans by 50%. It seems America worked before hand.....

Justaminute: That is the problem. Too many politicians now worrying about their popularity in the USA rather than doing their job. Serving one term and doing what needs to be done would be great.. but with all the Murdoch style media pressure.

Artful Dodger: The current mess? ... policies that were made 30 years ago affecting the US tax revenue was his decision? I agree Obama is now the figurehead, yet the problem lies within your political system.


"Many of these folks are in situations that warrant the help. Others are leeches. And there are plenty of those leeches around."

leeches come in all shapes and sizes, yes you get some who scrounge off the gov... some scrounge off the rich, or fair weather friends. Some marry into, some con. Then you have the rich who cheat the gov... I believe that figure is more significant in obtaining a balanced economy, as the amount lost is much more than the amount paid to those on the dole.

Seeing as the level of money given is supposed to be just enough to live on.. then putting income tax on them just means the 'dole' has to be increased so the gov can tax them.

.. A bit complicated and more paperwork!!

Artful Dodger: It's allll Obama's fault. Yes Dan.. Presidents speak that way... Raygun did when he announced SDI...

Or were you talking about the blogger going OTT??

Artful Dodger: ??? The original point??? .... is it original.

As to Bush not being in office. Pu -- lease.. I said Republicans and Conservatives. As the matter of the use of fear by whomever is not a new thing. McCarthy did it.. Raygun did it... The KKK do it.

History did not start in 2008... *hint* the year marker!!

Artful Dodger: didn't get it from there

Just a way to bring back to a point... Have not the Republicans and American Conservatives used scaremongering.

The answer is yes. Everyone gets scared, it's part of basic human biology. Interpretation of that feeling is always open to abuse.

Though the Science study’s authors cautioned against an overly broad interpretation of their findings, the results suggest that fear leads to political conservatism.

"Threatening situations do indeed seem to increase people’s affinity for politically conservative opinions, leaders, and parties," said New
York University psychologist John Jost.

Study co-author Kevin Smith, also a University of Nebraska political scientist, demurred at making such a connection. "Historically speaking, politicians have appealed to the ‘be afraid’ response in the electorate in an attempt to mine votes," he said. "But in terms of going from campaigning to what we did in the laboratory, that’s a large leap."

But even Smith agreed that "people with stronger responses are more sensitive to potential threats in their environment."

Asked whether the findings imply a fearmongering strategy for conservatives, New York University psychologist David Amodio responded, "Yes.
And some people believe that they are actively using this strategy."

The Bush administration has been accused of exploiting fears, though it’s hardly a new approach.

"The whole aim of practical politics," wrote journalist gadfly H.L. Mencken,
"is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins."

Jost condemned such tactics. "From an ethical standpoint, conservative campaigns should not exploit feelings of fear in the general population," he said.

Of course, ethics tend to be forgotten during election seasons.

ok... ... Have not the Republicans and American Conservatives run scares?

Artful Dodger: Twist... Chinese whispers start from truth and then get distorted... Like fair and Balanced.

Artful Dodger: So.. you are saying it's a lie that some folk might think is true...... well I never!!

Artful Dodger: .... people get scared. To suggest that liberals know nothing else just makes them guilty of being human. To suggest that it's only liberals then suggests that anyone who isn't a liberal is not human.

... Have not the Republicans and American Conservatives run scares?

Artful Dodger: Scaremongering.. isn't that a liberal trait?

Übergeek 바둑이: The 'Christian' TV networks here are always asking for money.. many claim that God & Jesus will through a small donation (or large) help you find financial security.

... I object to those abusing charitable status.

Bernice: Maybe you'd like to start taxing charities as well. But.... in understanding how they work.. as I work for one... would that be fair?

Some churches that are big... mmmmmm ... The Greek Orthodox owns so much of Greece...

Artful Dodger: If the CEO's and people with money were honest they wouldn't abuse the tax system would they. Our countries wouldn't have to spend millions chasing after billions in lost taxes.

Btw.. it's a fact that over the same period the income of the rich has risen by 100% and of the poor by less then 10%. Yet (another fact) ... the level of taxation on the rich has dropped by 35% since 1980 (the trickle down lie)

Plus in the current "The rich pay half"... deductions?

The vast majority of people who escape federal income taxes still pay other taxes, including federal payroll taxes that fund Social Security and Medicare, and excise taxes on gasoline, aviation, alcohol and cigarettes. Many also pay state or local taxes on sales, income and property.

That helps explain the country's aversion to taxes, said Clint Stretch, a tax policy expert Deloitte Tax. He said many people simply look at the difference between their gross pay and their take-home pay and blame the government for the disparity.

"It's not uncommon for people to think that their Social Security taxes, their 401(k) contributions, their share of employer health premiums, all of that stuff in their mind gets lumped into income taxes," Stretch said.

Obama has pushed tax cuts for low- and middle-income families and tax increases for the wealthy, arguing that wealthier taxpayers fared well in the past decade, so it's time to pay up. The nation's wealthiest taxpayers did get big tax breaks under Bush, with the top marginal tax rate reduced from 39.6 percent to 35 percent, and the second-highest rate reduced from 36 percent to 33 percent.

But income tax rates were lowered at every income level. The changes made it relatively easy for families of four making $50,000 to eliminate their income tax liability.

Here's how they did it, according to Deloitte Tax:

The family was entitled to a standard deduction of $11,400 and four personal exemptions of $3,650 apiece, leaving a taxable income of $24,000. The federal income tax on $24,000 is $2,769.

With two children younger than 17, the family qualified for two $1,000 child tax credits. Its Making Work Pay credit was $800 because the parents were married filing jointly.

The $2,800 in credits exceeds the $2,769 in taxes, so the family makes a $31 profit from the federal income tax. That ought to take the sting out of April 15.

***** Don't pay or get back for working?? *****

51 states arguing and no national rates... Guess the masters love that

The UK does. on VAT and Income Tax.. only variation is Council tax.

Everyone pays here!! Is that too socialist though?

Perspective... If 25% of the rich defraud 25% of their monies it makes a big difference... if 25% of the poor defraud 25% of their.. oh yes.. it makes no difference.

'So Obama LIES when he talks about those who do not pay their fair share.'

If they pay their fair share.. fraud, loopholes and offshore accounts. Plus dirty auditors mean that doesn't happen.

We all pay tax in the west, at least those countries with a VAT or fuel based duty.

... which circles back to company fraud of taxes and the wonderful system of fixed bids on projects for the likes of universities, schools and public buildings.

But the lobbyists like to blame the poor.

Übergeek 바둑이: It won't happen. Especially as many Presidents will exercise their right to say "So help me God" when they are sworn in.

AUSTIN, Texas - The debate over teaching evolution in public schools flared up again at the Texas State Board of Education yesterday, with supporters and opponents of the approach sparring at a meeting over supplemental science materials for the upcoming school year and beyond.

The Republican-dominated board drew national attention in 2009 when it adopted science standards encouraging schools to scrutinize “all sides’’ of scientific theory, a move some creationists hailed as a victory.

The board’s new chairwoman, former biology teacher Barbara Cargill, disputes the theory of evolution. First elected in 2004, she was appointed chairwoman earlier this month by Governor Rick Perry, who is considering a run for president. Cargill is considered one of the panel’s more conservative members.

The new teaching materials are necessary because the state could not afford to buy new textbooks this year, leaving students to use some that are several years old. The board is considering materials recommended by state Education Commissioner Robert Scott. A vote is scheduled today.

One conservative group, Texans for a Better Science Education, put out a call to pack yesterday’s public hearing with testimony urging board members to adopt materials that question Charles Darwin’s theory on the origin of life. But much of the day’s testimony was dominated by people who support teaching evolution.

“I don’t want my children’s public school teachers to teach faith and God in a science classroom,’’ said the Rev. Kelly Allen of University Presbyterian Church in San Antonio. “True religion can handle truth in all its forms. Evolution is solid science.’’

http://articles.boston.com/2011-07-22/news/29804037_1_creationism-evolution-in-public-schools-intelligent-design

"So what I mean is that America is not a Christian nation in the same way that Iran is a Muslim nation. "

Right.... The primary religion of America.... ...

As to laws.. in all that is a quagmire mix up of Muslim/Christian and other values... how else do you explain that being Gay was a crime!!

Pedro Martínez: Yes they did and the war there apart from some extremists is over.

It always seems there are a few odd ones who love to fight.

It could be said that the USA is only just over 40 years since it's last civil war.. over racial equality. Still in the 70's the KKK (an American terrorist group) and other Nazi style groups were bombing on US soil.

Is it true that Ex-Grand Wizard David Duke has been asked (as he claims) that thousands of Tea Party members want him to run for President after all that has gone on in the past??

Artful Dodger: So... it doesn't mean on somethings we can be as one as in that march.

Blimey... But even when we disagree we can be nice about it.. Maybe that's a British thing that's taken centuries to mature since our last big fight.

Artful Dodger: You make no sense

Pedro Martínez: Lizards? Albatross?

Sorry Art's fav UK paper says two million marched on London... but after a million... who counts!!

Artful Dodger: Yes we do, don't believe everything the Right here and in America say... or you'd have to believe Palin is a complete fool and everyone who likes her in office is also.

The Iraq war demo's were one example... by all accounts at least a million in one march.

For Americans to wake up and realise they need to demonstrate as one, regardless of party lines. As long as both sides say "it's the others fault" and not "we are tired of being used"....

.. no change.

The other major sponsor of the Tea Party movement is Dick Armey’s FreedomWorks, which, like Americans for Prosperity, is promoting events in Washington this weekend. Under its original name, Citizens for a Sound Economy, FreedomWorks received $12 million of its own from Koch family foundations. Using tax records, Mayer found that Koch-controlled foundations gave out $196 million from 1998 to 2008, much of it to conservative causes and institutions. That figure doesn’t include $50 million in Koch Industries lobbying and $4.8 million in campaign contributions by its political action committee, putting it first among energy company peers like Exxon Mobil and Chevron. Since tax law permits anonymous personal donations to nonprofit political groups, these figures may understate the case. The Kochs surely match the in-kind donations the Tea Party receives in free promotion 24/7 from Murdoch’s Fox News, where both Beck and Palin are on the payroll.

Rupert Murdoch has used FOX News to defeat the Democratic Party and promote the Republican party's power. Murdoch's FOX News operator is Roger Ailes. Together, they created the Tea Party, financed and produce it's political activities, and promoted it as a political party on FOX News. They raise millions of dollars to finance the Tea Party's election contests lies to wound the Democratic Party.

FOX News cable outlet operates almost as either the research arm or the communications arm of the Republican Party and is clearly biased.

Murdoch's number one concern is that Fox is very successful.

Roger Ailes has been masking right-wing propaganda as “Fair and Balanced” news since before Fox News was thought of. Ailes began as a media consultant for Richard “Tricky Dick” Nixon and has been manipulating the media for right-wing causes ever since.

It is reported that any party supported by a Murdoch owned media company, is only so if the Godfather of tabloid gets something back. So.. what have the parties his companies support promised him.... think about that!

Huge minority... sounds like they are not a minority then.

Biggest mouths... isn't that the Tea Party mob?

Economist Paul Krugman summarized the strategy in February 2010: "Rather than proposing unpopular spending cuts, Republicans would push through popular tax cuts, with the deliberate intention of worsening the government’s fiscal position. Spending cuts could then be sold as a necessity rather than a choice, the only way to eliminate an unsustainable budget deficit." He wrote that the "...beast is starving, as planned..." and that "Republicans insist that the deficit must be eliminated, but they’re not willing either to raise taxes or to support cuts in any major government programs. And they’re not willing to participate in serious bipartisan discussions, either, because that might force them to explain their plan — and there isn’t any plan, except to regain power."[19]
[edit] "Feed The Beast"

There exists a related idea known as "Feed the Beast", which means increasing taxes for the purported purpose of balancing the budget only to make the government spend those inflows. Economists Stephen Moore and Richard Vedder have written in the Wall Street Journal editorial page that every new dollar of new taxes leads to more than one dollar of new spending according to their research. Their conclusions have been disputed by economist and writer Bruce Bartlett in The Fiscal Times, who stated that tax increases in the early 90s helped contribute to more austere budgets in the late 90s.[20][21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms

It seems by this data the biggest increaser's in US debt are the Republican Presidents. With Raygun (as if we didn't know) increasing debt percentage wise by upto 50% in the '82 to '85 period.

Both Bush's again upto 32% in one term, while Clinton managed to reduce debt by 2001.

Peggy Noonan (born Margaret Ellen Noonan on September 7, 1950, in Brooklyn, New York) is an American author of seven books on politics, religion, and culture and a weekly columnist for The Wall Street Journal. She was a primary speech writer and Special Assistant to President Ronald Reagan and in her political writings is considered a Republican.

During the 2008 presidential campaign, Noonan wrote about Sarah Palin's vice presidential candidacy in the Wall Street Journal. In one opinion piece, Noonan expressed her view that Palin did not demonstrate "the tools, the equipment, the knowledge or the philosophical grounding one hopes for, and expects, in a holder of high office," concluding that Palin's candidacy marked a "vulgarization in American Politics" that is "no good... for conservatism... [or] the country."[9] Such commentary resulted in a backlash from conservatives.[10]

No wonder she supported Obama despite being Republican.

The secret grand jury testimony given by former US President Richard Nixon over the Watergate scandal is set to be released after more than 36 years, following an order by a federal judge.

Judge Royce Lamberth granted a request by historian Stanley Kutler to release the transcript, citing of its historical significance. But it will not be unsealed until the government has had a chance to appeal.

The political scandal prompted Nixon to resign in 1974.

Nixon, who died 17 years ago, was the only US president to resign. He left office amid the fallout after a break-in at the Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate complex in Washington.

Nixon testified for two days in California in June 1975, 10 months after his resignation. Judge Lamberth ruled that the historical interest in the 297-page transcript far outweighed the need to keep the records secret.

Raygun decided to 'win' the cold war by increasing DOD spending.... Yet as a matter of history and the logistics involved in any war between the west and USSR.. technically the war was lost years before. The only way to stop any Soviet advance through Europe was nuclear weapons and that was M.A.D.

NATO just did not have the manpower to stop the Soviets.

In the process Raygun spent the US economy.

The tax cuts he gave his masters put the US economy in a state of spiralling debt that through loyalty and fear of said masters.. No President till Obama has dared face.

... And yet the Republicans who still serve (thanks to decades of bribery) such masters will not cross them.

......... Should America be called the USA or DSA... as it's not united.. just a matter of who's pulling the strings.

Mr Reid said the Boehner plan was "a big wet kiss for the right wing", and Mr Obama has said he will not sign a short-term deal.

Also, in a new twist that analysts say illustrates the discord among the Republican party, Republican Senator John McCain, the party's 2008 presidential nominee, took to the Senate floor to criticise House Republicans who continue to push for a balanced budget amendment to the US constitution as the price of raising the debt ceiling.

A balanced budget amendment - which would require the US government to hold down spending to a certain percentage of gross domestic product and run in the black - was already rejected by the Senate and by Mr Obama.

Mr McCain called the demands "foolish" and "bizarro" and said they were "deceiving many of our constituents" and blamed them on newly elected House members' inexperience.

Artful Dodger: I don't think it'd be worthwhile going into what is good and bad etiquette with you.

Artful Dodger: *sigh*

Btw.. do you now want to make the statement that all terrorists are Muslim?