"Bureaucrats grant contracts according to friendships, campaign donations, political affiliations, sometimes even religious affiliations. That means that pricing is often inefficient. Large companies with more capital can use that capital to influence the outcome of the contract tendering process."

In a recent example of this most if not all of the companies doing public sector builds were found to be fixing prices.. unfortunately the police and courts were only allowed to investigate and prosecute a few of the defrauding companies. Something those prosecuted objected to as those just as guilty got away with it.

I think the time of investigating thousands of companies accounts would have impacted on investigations into other crimes.

SL-Mark: Yeah right... They'd have to prove they are all squeaky clean first.

The beer explains some of how our system of taxation works, but not all. Or how some wealth creators are not rich but just have a good idea.

"Hopefully the “death squad” that we have in the UK will be able to provide you with the most effective prescriptions."

Your not that MEP working for Fox are you?
No system is perfect, yet the claims of "death squads" is more descriptive of USA health companies. As to MRSA.. I'll let you into a little secret... The NHS trusts cut down on cleaning staff on wards, they were (well in the instances I know of) having 2 cleaners per ward and cut to one. That loss of one 'unskilled worker' led to less time to do the job properly with shortfalls in staffing (as the remaining staff went elsewhere) leaving the jobs being filled by agency staff who often were recent immigrants and could not half the time communicate let alone have the passion to do the job properly. In the end any organisation is reliant on efficient and good quality staffing. ..... plus how a private company hired by the NHS to prepare surgery kits kept making mistakes causing the cancellation of operations. Costing the NHS time and money.

If you wanna concentrate on the 0.1% then by all means. But over simplification of problems seems to be a thing of yours. Be careful you don't miss the rest of the wood in the process!!

SL-Mark: So says the Daily Mail so it must be true. zzzzzzzzzzzz

SL-Mark: Not really, businesses and rich folk keep bribing and blackmailing MP's for it to be a true democracy.. but most know that so why spend 1000 words saying it.

Again.. on the beer... But seeing as that is not the only tax.... zzzzzz

Are you above explanation?

SL-Mark: Not as expensive as the USA system and that leaves 40 million uncovered. It costs, but no-one has to worry about paying for a life saving op or waking upto a big bill that the health company has rejected due to small print.

SL-Mark: No.. we live in a kinda democracy.. We have the right to protest, march and demonstrate which some countries don't allow. They also help keep big business from ripping off regular folk. More so if they stopped being wimpy under certain governments.

Please.. explain yourself about capital flight, as all I hear is prattle.

As to foreign investment.. I've seen how much we fight for it. Something the government has given subsidies and much help in encouraging. I've also seen trade embargo's, price fixing and other activities it seems are part and parcel of the mixed economy we live in.

... what is your point???

SL-Mark: Maybe in such a situation that we all pay tax there is NO point. Especially considering certain wealthy people avoid paying tax using off shore accounts.

"2. Business certainly lives up to its side of the bargain, it is called salary and corporation tax.

Like Kraft?

"Government, they have no use as far as I am concerned and is simply a pointless and very expensive cost for little value."

So, how would you replace democracy and as such overthrow the result of a civil war we had a way back?

"3. Your 'real events' are prattle and trifling.
As to Next, clearly you don't understand the significance."

That's not an explanation just "this is my stance" dribble.. explain yourself!!

SL-Mark: No I wasn't. It was quite clear he was going on about Income Tax.. but considering how our economy works, to say the poor pay nothing is false.

VAT may not be applied to "food and childrens clothing" but even poor people buy other things such as clothes for themselves, maybe a magazine or two. Perhaps pens!!

"but it is not the reponsibility of government or the rich to ensure this, but the individual."

True.. But it is the responsibility of the government and businesses to live upto their side of the bargain of this economy and reward those workers who are part of the rich getting rich and the government being in power.

"Your last point and examples are nothing but prattle and is ignorant of economic realities."

My "prattle" are examples of REAL events. Not some prof's schoolroom anecdotes. As to Next... So what? Their stores are not moving that is 95% of the firm . Business rates will not be lost there.

Tax for the mega rich in the 50's in the USA was 91% above $400,000 .. now today after years of dropping.. under Bush's tax cut's it dropped to 35%. 2/3 of USA corporations didn't pay any federal income tax from 1995 to 2008. How.... greasing the government.

Where is the Tea Party on this?

SL-Mark: So.. in this prof's world VAT and Duty don't exist. Everyone here in the UK pays tax in some shape or form... As I imagine in most countries.

"Revolutions!? Again, what is your point?"

Basic sociology .. people need to live happily.

"Wealth creators do not need resort to blackmail, they just move as they please."

But they do. That's why we have rules regarding MP's and their business contacts. Intel got a big fine for bribing. A CEO I use to work for blackmailed 2 people to avoid being booted from being a bad decision maker.. the two people had an office affair.

Wealth creators are human.

SL-Mark: In cash.. but in the difference between having enough and not to live on...

Revolutions have been started by people not having enough whilst the rich "eat cake".

"In fact, they might start drinking overseas, as many are considering where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier."

Like the Bankers are threatening... that's blackmail!!

On the news last night was how a NHS trust was getting rid of any staff over 65 it could before new laws came in giving more rights, making them having to pay redundancy to the staff as the retirement age laws change.

150+ staff purely from the Community Mental Health Care Team who received the princely sum of £10 for each years service... One lady psychiatric nurse has been there for 23 years.. ie £230 'golden handshake'

The irony... The NHS trust has just hired a new chief exec.. he's 66... but he's 'experienced' so we are told.

There is a thing called scaring away!! Chickens usually respond to it very well.

..... Unless it's RoBoT cHiCkEn!!

Ferris Bueller: True... but the old health industry doesn't seem to quantify that a person's whole life can be destroyed by a mental illness, or the possible consequences of such to others apart from nearest and dearest.

The USA is getting concerned over China's spending on it's military... Yet the USA's spending on military accounts for 40% of the whole world's annual spending.

As such the Chinese gov spends about 10% of the USA does.

Ferris Bueller: .. Because those affected by disorders tend to be not very good at 'demonstrating'. And those supporting are busy supporting.

... It's hard to treat therefore expensive.

... And still Billions being paid to the b... b.... bankers who played with peoples money with no respect....

SL-Mark: Mmmmmmm...

"Firstly skills are purchased at a premium. If there was no reward for learning a skill, then there would be no differentiation and all would earn the same amount."

Not in the encouragement of people to become 'apprentices' or 'trainees'.. They still need a working wage. It's not about lack of want to do the job, but putting bread on the table. In a utopian world maybe all employers would be fair.. but we all know that is not always the case.

"By introducing the minimum wage you effectively reduce the differentiation and reward, hence providing less encouragement for a skilled labour force."

Not really. Unless it's the difference between a 1 star McD's worker and and 5 star McD's worker. Most skilled workers are going to earn a lot more than minimum wage, and from experience.. most really skilled workers are going to earn at least 10 times minimum.

"A liquid labour market is not encouraged by the minimum wage, but instead creates an illiquid market. It results in less movement of labour as again differentiation and free market forces"

.... It also gives incentive for more to get off JSA more quickly.

"“The lack of such a minimum wage is a tax on the income the government gets”
Duh, surely you can't be serious with this statement!?"

Yes. It's called subsidising businesses by the DWP and local councils paying benefits out to those on low wages.

"but to prevent the uprising occurring in the first place we will introduce a tax on labour through means of a minimum wage, hence avoiding the uprising, but we will keep the tax receipts any way and make our nation less competitive. There is a real cost here, the government has again reduced the competitiveness of business and again the business fails and unemployment increases. Simple economics."

lol.. Some businesses will never be able to keep up in a wage war with likes of India. That is an economic truth. As for competitiveness.. Is that (as in recent cases with building firms) before or after they fix the prices?.. Or like Intel, bribe retailers??

"For most businesses, labour costs are one the largest, if not the largest operating cost of a business. And more so because of labour taxes."

Nope.. It depends on the business. Computers and factory machines can cut labour costs by a great deal. But you'd know that from the likes of economic terms such as "labour intensive" and "non labour intensive".

Ebay.. nothing compared to some sites I know.

Artful Dodger: Most in the UK are against exploitation and slave labour. I thought it was the same in the USA.. or do people just turn a blind eye?

.. I know your military does.

SL-Mark: Or that there are various different opinions on economics that if you do know economics you'd know.

If you feel that no minimum wage is a great idea, I disagree. It does nothing to encourage a skilled and liquid labour market. if people see they are going to get less than peanuts for a job, less than they would unemployed.. why work? the lack of such a minimum wage is a tax on the income the government gets. As such it is also exploitation. And has led to much civil unrest in the past. Which is another drain of public funds.. which, are raised on taxes.. as I'm sure you know.

I've seen (before minimum was introduced) companies staff changing rapidly, as people moved on quickly. It wasn't they didn't like the job, just they could not afford to live on the pay. The result being that new staff had to be advertised for and trained. When a decent wage was paid. People stuck at the job.

As for higher costs. Shop around.. haggle.. ebay. Labour costs are a small % of the actual retail price usually, as I'm sure you know.

Mousetrap: Because the system is complicated that even those in the know have a hard time dealing with it. I saw on a prog one lady with a disabled son lose out due to not ticking a box that was in the small print. Luckily she was able to get what she was owed backdated. Yet a fraudster working full time for years and only getting caught through that he was selling dodgy DVD's at a market stall.. the one he had been working full time at for years!!

As to rent.. I know someone who got a letter saying they owed money after they moved, even though they had been paying via direct debit and had a letter saying all was in order. N' someone who was supposed to advice people on what to do when a landlord is slow on repairs.... not know that the tenant is within their rights to use the rent money to pay for essential repairs and just present the landlord with the receipt.

.. The lesson seems to be.. know your rights.

Mousetrap: I'm just glad I'm out of the system. Some of the horror stories that I have heard...

.. eg, a couple working claiming Working families Tax credit find that after some time thanks to the confusion of the red tape... they owe over £2K back. The only thing they did was to attempt the adoption of a teenager which went wrong. The news came over needing to repay a year after the event.

ScarletRose: Somewhat to do with limited oil reserves, somewhat to do with the cost of extracting the oil reserves you do have.

But with the cost of oil rising it's making some economically unviable reserves viable.

rod03801: Nope. I got a straight answer and just replied to it. That you can't or won't give one.....

SL-Mark: The minimum wage damages the economy and labour market!!... how in your view?

SL-Mark: .. are people willing to absorb the costs in the USA of having legal workers working instead of illegal workers.

It was clear, just I had to explain it several times

Illegal immigrants are cheap labour. As such these savings in costs are passed down through to the retail end via mark up and profit margins.

To completely eradicate Illegal immigrants from the USA (or reduce by a good %) the work force has to be replaced. As no USA citizen is going to accept the bad pay and work conditions illegals experience then wages must increase.. otherwise it's a no brainer.

Unless... you are happy that illegal immigrants are replaced by basically slave USA labour working for peanuts, and as such unable to feed and look after their families as Americans want everything on the cheap.

rod03801: Maybe someone will give me a straight answer now.

rod03801: I wasn't. I'm stating economic and business facts. This is what businesses rely on to run.

If anything is silly it's you thinking people should work on low wages just so you can get cheap goods, and that businesses will stop employing illegal immigrants when they have legal loopholes letting them.

ScarletRose: I've seen farmers here go out of business as the supermarkets are unwilling to pay a fair rate for milk. Chicken farmers getting 3p a chicken profit whilst the middlemen and chains get a £1 or more profit.

Yes, it's all nice being young and just starting in the job market... But those who've been caught out by this bank crash.. It's a different matter.

ScarletRose: Here in the UK all you need to do is prove you are hunting actively for a job to get unemployment. And they will ask you to go for jobs you will not get... but at least if you don't get it you will not be penalized. Just the application makes your job search look good for their figures!!

rod03801: Well then.. give me some perspective. As the image you are giving is someone who has no business understanding whatsoever.

"ll of us will have to sacrifice in some way to fix all the damage that has been done, by those who wanted to turn things this way."

It is the USA people's fault... yes. They wanted a cheap life at the expense of others. You are still talking like you still do.

rod03801: *sigh* In the end if you are unwilling to pay, or the businesses are unwilling to pay for the extra for the extra costs of a legal labour force... Who is?

If the labour cost NOW of a product through use of illegal immigration is 25% and that through a legal labour force goes up to 45%.. are you willing to pay extra at the till.

If you are not, no business unless forced is going to stop using cheap labour. If one does and another does not.... One will go out of business through being undercut.

Otherwise I must say (no insult) your understanding of economic realities is zilch.
The big shops will always want to use the cheaper supplier. In this case the farmer who charges less.

That is basic retail economics.

rod03801: I'm trying to put some real economics on the table.

"Can't really say I have a problem with people working for minimum wage though,"

So.. In the end you don't really care about workers as long as you get cheap consumer products.

That's insulting to the folk you want to supply you with your OJ and basically agreeing to illegal workers being employed in the USA!!

rod03801: That's when the likes of the legal age for sex was 13.. Children were treated as cheap labour and the such. A grand old time of kids dying up chimneys!!

rod03801: Are you willing as a consumer ( the first part of my question) TO PAY for the extra costs involved to the likes of the food industry of having a non illegal immigrant workforce.

Let's forget about relocation costs.. The fact that a simple little fed or state help would cut long term employment is hard to comprehend I know for some.

http://tucsoncitizen.com/view-from-baja-arizona/2010/07/11/who-is-at-fault-for-illegal-immigration/

Create fair labor standards in this country and maybe we wouldn’t need so many foreign workers.

A key reform that touches on the immigration issue, but reaches way beyond it, is to provide labor rights protection to farm workers and all sort of other work environments where undocumented workers are now exploited.

One of the first things I would do to change the illegal immigration problem is to not only crack down on businesses that hire undocumented workers, I’d also crack down on their wage and employment tactics. No more “labor contractors”. And if the workers wanted to unionize, protect their rights to do so. An obstacle to that approach is Republicans are genereally as anti-union as they are anti-immigrant.

My guess is a lot of immigration raids in certain sectors are actually triggered by the employer dropping the dime on their illegal works because the workers started complaining about 12 hour shifts, unsafe working conditions, and the failure to pay for overtime. With an endless supply of undocumented workers to fill the jobs of the deported troublemakers, the wage slavery continues.

Many of the industries employing undocumented aliens have exemptions from minimum wage laws. Those exemptions must be eliminated. Then maybe a lot more citizens will take these jobs.

The “crew chief” business needs to be busted up. The agricultural sector has fought unionization because they don’t want the higher costs that union contracts would create.

But is it just the higher costs for labor that is the problem, or the pass through of the higher costs to the ultimate consumer…you and I.

Because we want everything as cheap as possible, our demand for cheapness flows backwards through the system to fuel the need for undocumented workers who can be exploited. That flow back occurs not only in agriculture, but in construction, the hospitality industry, and into our yards and homes.

rod03801: Ok... But as a consumer, are you willing to pay the extra as these workers will have to get minimum wage?

.. And whose paying for relocation costs?

If the USA wants to cut down on illegal immigrants.... Why don't more patriotic Americans go work in the fields picking?

Bernice: that the initial colonization of Australia was by 160,000 convicts used to tame Australia (aka cheap labour) .. ok. The cap fits there.

That all non Aborigine folk are Immigrants.. The cap fits.

A little information that the likes of Nick Griffin doesn't mention when moaning about immigration is that about 1,000,000 UK passport holders are now permanently living abroad in Europe.. N' that most Immigrants do in the end integrate with the local society. Unless the local population are like the members of the BNP who have such a limited view based on some strange concept that only people who have roots in the UK dating back to the last ice age should live in the UK.

Australia is short of skilled workers. You need immigrants.

The immigrants in Australia are the Europeans.. The actual Australians are the Aborigines.. Guess the PM of Australia forgot that.

Might be the convict gene!!

Übergeek 바둑이: .. Perhaps you should study a bit on human nature. Such is as described by the likes of yin yang and the two yetzer's that such as killing for gold, oil, etc is just an expression of our animal nature. The difference only between us and 'animals' is that we think.. such is that we can wrongly translate basic animal instincts into "logical" actions.

That is not God's fault, that is mankind being in denial of his basic nature and blaming the devil every time they do things like commit adultery or kill through feeling emotionally hurt.

ScarletRose: I've seen a 11 year old kid in the USA showing off his personal gun collection. He had over ten plus a saber and other stuff. That most of what he had would knock the kid off his feet if he tried to fire them seemed irrelevant.

I saw on Fox news the other night moans about regulation in certain states over records being kept over buying high powered rifles, etc.. and that people couldn't buy more than two in 5 days.

... But looking back at talk and notes from those around at the time when the 2nd amendment was made.. Responsibility was part of having a militia and self defense..

.. The cheapness and mass production of arms today was not considered or thought of. We are talking of a time of muskets. Single shot slow loading arms... not semi or automatic weapons with large clips. One platoon with automatic weapons could wipe out an army of musket carrying soldiers.

BIG difference.

Another point.. making guns easy to get hold of by the nutter element all countries have... It takes more to cross the line to murder without access to guns. It seems that building up to being a killer is a stage thing. A gun makes that jump easier, whilst closer killing takes more and is less likely to be a big kill.

As to the numbers being less than car deaths. Yes.. they are, but that does not make the problem go away of nutters getting guns. It's just a poor defense of having a no system of protecting people from nutters with guns, and as such justifying that this is ok to protect your rights.

Well... what about those who die at the hands of nutters with guns right to live?

give money, give food, give water, help build basic's .. wells, buildings. Education and a means to watch and track slave trading in young kids as a cheap labour force ... One chocolate eaters to to think about.

Clothes banks, monitor western companies to make sure their suppliers do not use cheap or sweat shop labour. Buy fairtrade. Stop the manipulation of countries by foreign governments and the supply of cheap arms via dealers and treat such as murder..

Help the people be self sufficient.

And no... we are not the only species to wage war against each other. But we are the only species to be able to wage war on a global scale.

"I've never heard the loony left complain about cars in the way they complain about guns."

Like the incident of how Nixon was approached by the USA car manufacturers to delay the introduction of seat belts as it would cost the car firms some profit... To the progs like "Watchdog" that pick up on people's complaints (like with a problem with the electrical system that caused people's power steering to fail, BMW's wheels cracking, car firms selling 'written off' cars without telling the buyer..

The loony right ought to remember freedom is a state of mind, not a gun nor a piece of paper.

Bwild: No need to disarm, just the need to weed out nut jobs. In the UK it was a case of a showing you can keep the guns responsibly to the police, and a interview to make sure you are not a psycho.

Mélusine: A broom can kill... The Chinese worked out diversity of weapon shape millennium ago.

A chef's iron??