The Col: where's my million?

Artful Dodger: Saying you have two children and then don't.... did they die? Was it like some of these "Who's the daddy?" progs where you are told you have two children and then find out you are not the father??

Not a good analogy... Politicians have to compromise at times.. it goes with the territory. It's not like when Bush claimed the conflict was over in Iraq, it's not like when the Republican government tried to claim Saddam had links to the Taliban.

Beck said on one of his shows that people use to pay to come into the USA, quoting some old regulation. When someone checked on that regulation, it applied to the last years of importing slaves into the USA and that the government taxed $10 a head.

I cannot see (unless his research crew are corrupt) how he can make that level of a mistake...

btw... why is Christine O'Donnell hiding so much about her College past?

Artful Dodger: Considering that the likes of Bill O'Reilly and Glen Beck are by some thought of as reliable commentators on current political events.. it is a point. That they do make mistakes.. and seemingly lie on certain matters just to make their point 'bigger' does put doubt into any reasonable mind on the validity of their political bantering and the message they are fronting.

As to your contention that Obama is a pathological liar.. just because he says 'X' yet.. through having to put things through Congress and the Senate what he says becomes 'XY' is pretty normal in terms of how things work in the world of politics. It does not make him a liar, it makes him someone that has to get policies through both houses which are greatly affected by the lobbying system.

Artful Dodger: Mmm it seems POTUS can be used both ways.
http://www.potus.com/


And again, you don't get to dictate here. People wanted to talk about Bill O'Reilly being wrong. You said you would like to see/talk about it.

But.. you have no answer. Some would consider that an answer in itself.

Artful Dodger: You choose Right wing groups to find clips on Obama, as like Trekkers... they follow every line and word, comparing speech Obama1.3.6 part 2 subsection c to Obama speech 4.2.5 appendix iii

No rules here on where we pick info from.. Free speech rules apply.

Artful Dodger: So... It can be said that Bill O'Reilly..

"Bill O'Reilly makes up whatever he wants to in his head and presents it as truth, all the while using the argument that he must be right because Fox News has higher ratings than MSNBC"

AS Previously stated here by lizrising

You replied... "I would LOVE to see you back that nonsense up with a solid argument."..

One question though.. doesn't Fox or Bill have researchers to check things? If he can.. as you say.. 'get things wrong'... how much more of his broadcasts are suspect and full of incorrect "news analysis"???

therefore.. The Bill O'Reilly factor as a news analysis prog on a news channel, along with Beck.. who seems to confuse regulation on Slave transportation with people having to pay to enter into the USA... Can get things wrong and present a false account of past and current issues.

"ANY conversation would be the POTUS and his honesty/dishonesty record."

You don't get to dictate here. It's called free speech ... and I thought POTUS referred to Presidents not a President!!

Artful Dodger: It's a simple question... it operates under the presumption we are all human (that we know of) on this world.

Bill O'Reilly stated that USA servicemen killed 84 surrendering ss troops at Malmédy. Basically saying these USA servicemen commited a war crime.

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200606030002
In fact. History records that ss troops murdered USA toops at Malmédy during WWII.

Since the evidence in history (bodies/dog tags) is clear, then Bill O'Reilly messed up.

Knowing your Hero so well, you could at least make an effort to talk and explain what he was doing.

"YOU need to make your case with your OWN argument backing up your exact claim. Don't deviate."

... It is backed up by historical records. That O'Reilly said otherwise is recorded.
........No deviation, straight argument backed up by recorded evidence.

Now... don't deviate yourself as you keep on doing.

Let's make it easy...

http://mediamatters.org/research/200410250009

From the October 21 broadcast of the nationally syndicated The Radio Factor with Bill O'Reilly:

O'REILLY: "They said they [9-11 widow Kristen Breitweiser, featured in the ad, and her late husband] voted for Bush [in 2000], but Bush opposed the 9-11 Commission -- which he didn't, by the way. He didn't oppose it. I mean, he had questions about it because he didn't want it politicized."

------------------

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/15/attack/main509096.shtml
(CBS) President Bush took a few minutes during his trip to Europe Thursday to voice his opposition to establishing a special commission to probe how the government dealt with terror warnings before Sept. 11.

Mr. Bush said the matter should be dealt with by congressional intelligence committees.

CBS News Correspondent Bill Plante reports that Mr. Bush said the investigation should be confined to Congress because it deals with sensitive information that could reveal sources and methods of intelligence. Therefore, he said, the congressional investigation is "the best place" to probe the events leading up to the terrorist attacks.

"I have great confidence in our FBI and CIA," the President said in Berlin, adding that he feels the agencies are already improving their information sharing practices.

**********************
**********************

Now.. If I read this right (dot a dold) O'Reilly said Bush did not oppose the 9/11 commission..... The news report states he did through comments made by Bush himself.

So.. Did CBS get it wrong, did Bill get it wrong?
N' if Bill got it wrong.. does it just prove he's human.. not a God?
Was he lying or just bull..ing himself through the broadcast??

The Col: Beck sounds like Rimmer from Red Dwarf and his Space corps directives.

A video of Bill making things up as he goes, ranting on about "liberals this.. liberals that"..

Ratings.. bahhhh

If you get caught on camera people fess generally.. admissible in court

.. no.. going "liberals this... liberals that" is not an argument..

Artful Dodger: It's systemic of the fact they have been used so much.

Us in the west trained the Taliban.. that's how come they are capable of doing what they have done. We took a bunch of Islamic extremists and trained them up to kill Soviet troops via guerilla warfare.

Iran.. a country previously known as Persia dictated by the Shah... who was repositioned by a USA/British operation(s)..

why???... oil.

Artful Dodger: And the Catholic church is without sin regarding bashing different folks? I think Jesus would have restated his words on "turn the other cheek".

Übergeek 바둑이: But they do talk (at least with the EU) with a lot of monetary aid given to the Palestinian people.

The Col: Simple solution would be to move the borders a bit and let the Palestinians have one land instead of two bits.. I'm not talking about just Israel moving borders, but the neighbouring Arab states as well.

As for the rockets.. no that was not nice.. the human shields.. pointless.

But so were the use of cluster bombs.

Statement by High Representative Catherine Ashton on Israel-Palestinian proximity peace talks

"I am deeply concerned by recent settlement-related activity in East Jerusalem and the recent unrest in Silwan. I recall that the European Union has never recognised the annexation of East Jerusalem. Settlements and the demolition of homes are illegal under international law, constitute an obstacle to peace and threaten to make a two-state solution impossible. If there is to be genuine peace, a way must be found through negotiations to resolve the status of Jerusalem as the future capital of two states. I would like to call on Israel to refrain from measures which may undermine the ongoing proximity talks. These talks enjoy our full support and the parties need to engage seriously in these negotiations.

I also want to strongly condemn the attack on UNRWA Summer Games recreation facility in Gaza. UNRWA’s Summer Games are an excellent initiative to promote the wellbeing of Gaza’s children and they will continue to count with our strong support."

Brussels, 30 June 2010
A 117/10

Übergeek 바둑이: No they don't.. not all. The UK government certainly doesn't, and many European governments have spoken out against the ghetto's that are the Palestinians homelands. Looking back at the history of UN resolutions against Israel.. the only stumbling block in decades gone that would have created a more probable atmosphere for peace by being able to put pressure on Israel to stop it's side of the crap has been the USA.

Whether they were decisions made purely by USA policy makers or with coercion/bribery from those within Israel is hard to work out.

The Col: The Holy See my have it's own laws and is recognised as a 'state'.. but it (as I said) only occupies a place that is a part of Rome... making it in my eyes just a big glorified church with very large church grounds.

The Col: The original formation of 'Palestine' was supposed to have given both Jewish and Arab people an equal right to live in what we call Israel today. While I can accept the Israelis saying "we live here" and the right to live there being 'written in stone', I cannot accept the declaration of Israel being purely a Jewish state. It's not the same as The Holy See, that is a place in Rome which is in Italy.

From my reading of history and from recent progs.. Israel is still a place of where those of many religions live. Especially in Jerusalem, where people of non Jewish persuasion have had their rights to live in their homes abused to the extent where a person of Jewish faith can just walk all over them and take the families home from them with nobody stopping it from happening.

Perspectively wise... we have seen before what happens when a country declares that only certain people can live within it's boundaries many a time. The results ain't good.

The Col: From what I've found....

"The Palestinians formally recognised Israel on the eve of the 1993 Oslo Accords, but have rejected demands to recognise its Jewish character because it would effectively renounce the right of return for refugees from the 1948 Arab-Israeli war."
http://www.citizen.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=132515&catid=29:world-news&Itemid=53

"A day earlier, Netanyahu set out recognition of Israel as a Jewish state as his price for a renewal of a ban on construction in the occupied West Bank, seen as key to rescuing direct talks relaunched last month.

That demand was rejected out of hand by the Palestinians, who said it had "nothing to do with the peace process," and was also widely criticised by Israeli politicians and commentators as a political ploy to sabotage the talks."

The Col: I agree.. the Palestinians have not done much to give them the chance of a Noble peace prize.. but neither have the Israeli's in this matter. one of the big stumbling blocks is building on the West Bank... which by international law is illegal.

The Fox banter at the bottom says it's because the Palestinians do not recognise Israel.. yet they have since 1993.

... Maybe those on the Israeli side should just admit many right wingers on their side do not want to stop the building... why does it seem right wingers get in the way of progress everywhere!!!

Glen Beck sounds like the Nazi propaganda machine of the 1930's.... They made films depicting themselves as peaceful people standing up against the Jews/Communists... And it was the Jews/Communists who were violent thugs attacking and killing real Germans just because the real Germans stood up and disagreed with what the Jews/Communists were saying.

I saw on the Glen Beck show when he's in teacher mode the news rolling at the bottom about how the Palestinians are rejecting peace talks due to disagreements over the West Bank and the Israelis carrying on building on land which is not theirs. Yet it's all the Palestinians fault!!

So.. the depression we are in might give Obama worse unemployment figures than Ronald Raygun got!!

.. That one was started by the stock exchange crash!!

The Col: Does she know the location of the bank accounts??

This week General Suharto, former US-backed Indonesian dictator and mass murderer for 34 years, died at the age of 86 with an estimated $30 billion squirreled away. Mass murderer Suharto left an appalling legacy of about 0.5-1 million Indonesians murdered (Communists, progressives, ethnic Chinese), 0.2 million East Timorese murdered out of a total population of 0.6 million in the East Timorese Genocide (1975-2002), goodness knows how many people killed in Aceh and West Irian (West Papua), terrorizing by brutal and corrupt military, rampant corruption and consequent rise of Islamist activism and (variously military- and police-complicit) terrorist activity against the Indonesian Christian minority (about 10,000 killed with about 100,000 refugees) (see:

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-duin010202.shtml ) and recently against Western hotels and visitors (e.g. the 2003 Bali bombing that killed about 200 Western tourists).

GTCharlie: What about those that were caught in the middle???

What about the people in Europe as a whole that were crapping their pants over the fact that we were bang in the middle of the firing line is someone decided M.A.D. was a good idea?

We had American cruise missiles based in the UK.. Women from the UK then camped outside that base.. As they knew if someone got trigger happy that base would be targeted.

In the end, any country that thought the playing of countries (as happened on both sides) and the use of nuclear weapons as a means to avoid direct confrontation (a cowardly action) does not deserve to be called any better than any other country who took part in that mess called "the cold war". Millions died, were maimed, tortured any much more as a result of all sides playing 'Risk' with the world. Our whole planet is now more radioactive through 'boys' showing off their 'toys'.. In certain respects I wonder (as I don't know the science) whether the hundreds of atomic weapons detonated have in some ways contributed to the increase in Leukaemia levels??

... Strontium 90 being a by product ....

GTCharlie: The KGB managed to find people in the UK who would spy for them, acting in some cases as double agents. Some after being discovered yet escaped capture by the British authorities were found to be living in Russia.

Übergeek 바둑이: I'm glad there is a law on that.. Pavements are a lot clearer then they use to be. We also have laws here banning dogs from children's playground areas (the fenced/gated off variety) simply as some people just won't respect others. ... Yet at the same time, legislation in certain areas is disappearing. Some rules are just dumb and a waste of money.

Cuba does have trade with the UK. Not sure how much, but I know I can go to a traditional tobacconist and buy a Cuban cigar.

Pedro Martínez: Socialism comes in many formats from state to pure ownership by the people such as communes. Dictatorships vary from one party to one system (such as could be said of the USA two party system)...

Did they in history classes teach you about why things happened or just what happened?

Pedro Martínez: ??? for studying history???

It's one of those subjects they teach at school you know.

Pedro Martínez: I'm sure the 200,000+ killed by the free democratic South Korean government that the USA installed would agree with you. Or the other 1000's upon thousands killed, maimed and tortured when the 'free' have not agreed with the right of a people to choose or go through the difficult process of self governing.

from what I read about the history of the Cuban revolution and the aftermath.. Castro only went to the Russians and declared the country as communist because the USA companies put pressure on the USA government to overthrow Castro so they could pillage the Cuban people and country again.

.. They didn't like losing out on the profits they had enjoyed under the USA placed dictator. As for the political prisoners.. approx 650 attempts on your life can make a man and his government a little paranoid.

I'm sure those in the USA who had their lives ruined by free fellow countrymen through the McCarthy kangaroo court would agree with you also.

Pedro Martínez: Yes.. opinions.

My opinion differs as does the opinion of people on Castro. Therefore there is disagreement.

As you have pointed out before.. experts can be wrong.

Tuesday: Sometimes people like to relax and doze to a good film. Or as is common in the UK.. Cricket. It's an intrusion for the advertisers to break that relaxed mood just because someone wants to tell you 95% of 68 men think brand 'X' razor is better than all the rest!!

Pedro Martínez:

... "Castro himself has been described as a dictator."

doesn't mean he is one.

I could describe Palin as a fascist money grabbing opportunist... doesn't make her a fascist does it!!

Fulgencio Batista y Zaldívar (Spanish pronunciation: [fulˈxenθjo βaˈtista i θalˈdiβar]; January 16, 1901 – August 6, 1973) was a Cuban President, dictator, and military leader closely aligned with and supported by the United States. He served as the leader of Cuba from 1933–1944, and 1952–1959, before being overthrown as a result of the Cuban Revolution.[2]

Batista initially rose to power as part of the 1933 "Revolt of the Sergeants" that overthrew the government of Gerardo Machado, becoming the Army Chief of Staff, with the rank of colonel, and effectively controlling the five-member Presidency. He maintained this control until 1940, when he was himself elected President of Cuba, serving until 1944. From 1944-1952 he lived in the United States, returning to Cuba as leader of a U.S. backed coup that preempted the 1952 elections in which Batista was running a distant third.

Throughout the 1950s, Batista's corrupt and repressive regime systematically profited from the exploitation of Cuba's commercial interests, in partnership with U.S. corporations and the American Mafia.[3] As a result, for three years Fidel Castro's July 26th Movement and other rebelling elements led a guerrilla uprising against Batista's regime which culminated in his eventual defeat following the Battle of Santa Clara on New Year's Day 1959. Batista immediately fled the island with an amassed personal fortune.

I read that about 75% of Cuba's best arable land was owned by foreign individuals or companies before the revolution (mainly USA) How was that fair?

The Cuban Revolution was an armed revolt that led to the overthrow of dictator Fulgencio Batista of Cuba on January 1, 1959 by the 26th of July Movement led by Fidel Castro.[1]

"I believe that there is no country in the world including any and all the countries under colonial domination, where economic colonization, humiliation and exploitation were worse than in Cuba, in part owing to my country’s policies during the Batista regime. I approved the proclamation which Fidel Castro made in the Sierra Maestra, when he justifiably called for justice and especially yearned to rid Cuba of corruption. I will even go further: to some extent it is as though Batista was the incarnation of a number of sins on the part of the United States. Now we shall have to pay for those sins. In the matter of the Batista regime, I am in agreement with the first Cuban revolutionaries. That is perfectly clear."

– U.S. President John F. Kennedy, interview with Jean Daniel, October 24, 1963

rod03801: So if the type of socialism got introduced that power over everything was in the power of the people (true worker ownership) you would say no?

Pedro Martínez: Yes I can disagree. He was a revolutionary just like in the American revolution.

As for a dictator.. tricky. That the USA was trying to kill and overthrow him every 5 minutes would have had an effect on how the government went along..

I think in the USA it's called Homeland security now.. or the CIA beforehand.

rod03801: You didn't. But it seems socialism only became a dirty word in the USA after WWII. If it wasn't for the Russians and China we'd found WWII a longer and more costly war.

Pedro Martínez: And why did Castro into power.. because the little guy was being trodden on by capitalists.

rod03801: HA... I think the conservative element in the USA are just rehashing old cold war talk.

Can understand that considering how long the cold war went on for. The US gov had to justify building WMD's in the 10's of thousands somehow.

But.. saying that.. could it be said that this whole "socialist" thing in the USA is federal brainwashing you in the USA still (in part) accept??

rod03801: I just find that the term "socialist dictator" is a bad inaccurate term. A socialist cannot be a dictator. By being one (such as the former USSR leaders) you are no longer socialist (especially considering some types of socialism are totally against having governments) but just a dictatorship.

rod03801: So when Bush had protesters against the Iraq war moved away from the route he was taking to special zones.... he was being what??

A Fascist dictator?

Sounds like if you have a big business and like to trample on the little people.. move your business to the USA!!

Vikings: Really?

It sounds like the only free 'people' are the big companies who you'll let trample all over you anytime, anyplace.. anywhere..... As long as local law says it's ok.. even if they might be bought (as has happened in the past)... you have no rights but to lobby (timely) or move.

.. That's really great... NOT!!

Vikings: Within the law?? Now you are saying you can trespass and affect mob rule on a business.

"local business here have been run out of town by not being citizen friendly."

What happened to free speech??

Vikings: IF it did happen you are powerless you are saying... I mean, some councilmen might have a nice job lined up after via the advertising company and not give a damn. Lobbying can take a while...

.. basically it sounds like you are saying businesses have the right to do whatever and your rights don't matter as it's a business?

Vikings: So if the local gov was bought out ... then what?