(V): I agree,I don't see the point of those who argue Fox doesn't lean strongly to the right,it's not that big a deal.For some reason it drives those who work for or watch Fox nuts.It's just a given in my opinion,just like MSNBC leaning far left,who cares

Artful Dodger: that is exactly my point....where can you go to get the truth .....

Artful Dodger: OMG did you complain this much when they were all foo-fooing over Bush? probably not

anastasia: oh yes he did ROFLMBO........he was THE best in those days LOL...

ask him about THE OLD DAYS, in the debate club hahahahha

Bernice: well my GAWD ,I mean,no offense but he is acting like this is such a NEWS FLASH that the news reports one side of things....YA THINK!?
The news is biased...WOW...I never saw THAT one coming.They report crap things all the time.....

Artful Dodger: I told ya I was creative ;) I have oddles of them!! some I can't post tho,hehehe

Artful Dodger: hahahaha......I used to love them days :)

Artful Dodger: well,it's a nice change from always hearing about that hillbilly that is still sitting in office now

Artful Dodger:

Artful Dodger: So the fact that their editorial stance is conservative biased has no meaning.... Right.. ok. I get it.. I think... Everything about fox is conservative biased except for the news??

... I'll believe you... except I can't as I know fox is a biased network.

And the women was a fox rep.. high up management!?!
It sure does show how the people working for the company support the repubs.

Artful Dodger: So they keep each other in check... you have conservative biased networks and liberal biased networks who take each other to task exactly like your political parties do.

Wow. I'm not surprised, anyone with a brain in the UK would see that from just looking at our UK papers, etc.

It's the way of the world Art, you can deny all you want but it doesn't make it true.

Jim Dandy: I think it's like Sun readers over here. They say they are working class people yet they are reading a conservative paper who openly support in their ed's the conservatives... Thanks to Rupert Murdoch who also owns Fox.

No-one really cares as it's a personal choice where you get your news.

(V): So they keep each other in check... you have conservative biased networks and liberal biased networks who take each other to task exactly like your political parties do.


Thing is, there is not one other news outlet that is pro conservative besides fox, and I believe that fox actually only slants like that because there has to be at least one guy pushing back against the overwhelmingly liberal news media.

Even government sponsored (all citizens pay for) tv stations, like pbn are so obviously liberal biased, its just a joke. And dont tell me it used to be that way in favor of bush and the republicans, I dont remember it that way, I would like to see some evidence for that one.

Like Art said, it doesnt have to be really obvious.... just look at the next political scandal that comes along, if it is a republican, it is almost always part of the lead, that they are republican, it is part of the story, but if it is a democrat, well it might get mentioned, but it is not part of the story, it happens all the time.... "breaking news, republican blah blah blah".... or "breaking news, joe blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah democratic blah blah blah blah".

anastasia: hillbilly



LMAO! I believe you have just coined a new phrase without even realizing it...That is the best name I have ever heard for Hillary!!!!

Billary was a good one, but hillbilly is awsome!

Czuch: There maybe only one pro conservative news tv channel aka Fox (something I've not got the time to check at the mo) but there are plenty of pro repub/conserv shows and editorials on other networks, not to mention on the web.

... Is that not true?

As I said, find a channel then that exposes all. Maybe we should send Jeremy over to the states for a while and do a few shows... He doesn't care what party you are, he'll pick to pieces any dodgy stuff and plain old 'avoiding the point at question.'

He's fun to watch.

(V): I am not complaining about not enough pro conservative points of view... the point is that so called "news" should not be biased. I know its not possible to be completely unbiased, just the fact that a story is chosen to be aired shows some sort of bias in and of itself.

Its bad enough that we have to endure bias on shows like david letterman or saturday night live, thats their choice and it is so called entertainment, there are plenty of outlets for peoples biases to shine without bringing it to our news.... in a way we conservatives should be happy about the fact that libs are so afraid of conservatives that they feel like they need to slant their news stories and warp our minds just to make liberalism more tolerable.

here is a mild example I just witnessed.... the news anchor says "no surprise, but Obama has been named man of the year for time magazine".... is it really their job to tell us if we should be surprised about a news story???? Just tell us the story and let us decide if we are surprised or whatever?

He goes on to tell us about other people considered, including, he says with a smirk on his face, sarah palin


Look, I know this example is a minor one, but it is the tip of the iceburg, and it happens all the time in a far more egregious amnner

Czuch: hmmm I could say the same about conservative 'entertainment'... especially some of the stuff that got passed on as ads showing your new pres's capability to defend America. Or how he was made to look by repub supporters... maybe they just new he'd win ny a bigger margin unless they tried to make him look like a demon.

It's a funny ol game politics.

(V): again... not talking about entertainment, just the so called 'news'

Artful Dodger: I asked who she was as it was not clear, did you not read that by my !?!

But she has appeared on the Fox network.. seems to do alot of shows if the encyclo is right?

Including this one.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=x8-Agwc9D8Q
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AZLfLmncPEc
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=nveiuLxc9Eo

.. many other appearances by what looks like from the logo in the bottom left corner.... Fox News.

If she's so bad why have her on the network?

Artful Dodger: I have, you just don't want to admit it. Czuch sees it.


And in the bottom left corner is Fox News, even if it is an editorial or 'entertainment' program.

Artful Dodger: You tell me, I'm off to finish dinner.

(V): does the Sun every print anything thats true?

Artful Dodger: Fox news. It's a network channel. Run by republicans and Rupert Murdoch a known right wing media tycoon owns it.

Artful Dodger: Nope. I think from what I've seen there are more conservative outlets out there... modern tech makes such things possible.

Artful Dodger: Isn't this a media conversation?

Not that it matters,but I don't see a resolution in sight on this topic anyway,both sides of the discussion are far too dug in

Artful Dodger: http://www.rightwingnews.com/ as an example.
Youtube... various other sites.. what was that one you use to use on IYT and in the debate club for material.

If I was to name all the various outlets for conservative thought and republicans views in the USA this post would be very, very long.

So I won't name them. I ain't clicking on all those links just to prove something you already know to be true.

TV, Internet, Papers, Radio, Letter, leaflet, posters, books, dvd and some others I can't think of at the mo.

... Much shorter list and more to the point.

Jim Dandy: Resolution rarely happens.. It's just a debate.

(V): I suppose,talk radio(for instance) is dominated by conservative views in the states,it is what it is.I don't see the point of debating fact,but carry on

You can actually enjoy watching both left and right leaning programs regardless of ones personal views.I'm a liberal,but I can't stand Olbermann,I'm sure there are Republicans who feel the same about Hannity,who cares

Jim Dandy: I'm a liberal,but I can't stand Olbermann,I


That guy is so blatant, he tries to come across as Edward Murrow but he is really just a hack who hates Bush.... he is on tonight to bitch about Bush making up his own legacy.... move on already.... poor libs, what are you all going to complain about now that Obama is in???? Letterman is even still bringing on Tina fey to impersonate Palin, thats all you got boys???

Czuch: And your thoughts on his evil counter balance twin Hannity?

(V): If I was to name all the various outlets for conservative thought and republicans views in the USA this post would be very, very long.


You just dont get it do you????

Its about the hard news, you know, today so and so shot so and so... even Asia admits that all the news about helicopters (or whatever it was) going down all the time in Iraq, was not in sync with the reality she got from her friend who was there! So its not just about semantics IE leaving out that someone is a democrat, but also about the types of stories, IE you hate the war so all your stories are anything negative you can find. Not that the stories arent true (even though often exaggerated) but there is no balance, there were surly some stories in Iraq that pointed out something positive that was happening, but you would never catch MSNBC covering them.

The big problem that I see is that they do shape public opinions, and the point of news is not to impart your own biases into the public! If 9 or 10 news stations were behind the war in Iraq, instead of the other way around, and 9 of 10 stories showed positive results, and always ignored the negative, and always tried to portray the war in a positive light, and they promoted the American people to get behind the war effort, and always told us how great Bush is.... well this war probably would have been over long ago, but because these liberal news media types who hated Bush from day one, and who thought he stole the election, they could not wait to make him look bad at every turn (sometimes they didnt have to try real hard) and that reflected in their news coverage, and that reflected in public opinion and that reflected on why we are still in Iraq... dont worry about helping our war efforts, just so the evil vote stealer bush is mad to look bad!

CHICAGO, Illinois (CNN) -- Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr., who was cited in a criminal complaint against Rod Blagojevich, went to the U.S. Attorney's office about alleged wrongdoers, including the Illinois governor, a Jackson spokesman said Tuesday.

Jesse Jackson Jr. reported in 2006 what he believed was a shakedown by the Illinois governor.

Jackson rejected being labeled with the term "informant" in a message to CNN contributor Roland Martin.

[...] In addition, two sources close to Jackson told CNN that, in 2002, Blagojevich -- then running for governor of Illinois -- solicited a $25,000 campaign donation from Jackson, which he did not get.

At the time, Jackson's wife, Sandi, was a candidate for the job of director of the state's Lottery Commission, a post she did not win, the sources said.

After Blagojevich took office, in early 2003, he told Jackson something to the effect of, "You see what $25,000 would have done?" the sources said.

In 2006, Jackson reported the incident, which he believed to have been an attempt at a shakedown, the sources said.

Jim Dandy: Well Hanity, the difference is that hannity tries to promote conservative ideals, maybe to a fault, but its different from Olberman, who doesnt really defend liberal values and ideals (do liberals even have any values and ideals?) as much as he just plays negative on Bush, and again hannity doesnt try to come off as some serious glasses wearing hard news journalist, but oberman really has some fantasy of himself that is far greater than the negative ranting guy that I see!

So, yes, I hate oberman way more than I like hannity, but hannity to me doesnt pretend to be anything than he is, and that is a mouth piece for conservativism

Czuch: I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that Hannity doesn't appeal or speak for your average Republican anymore than Olbermann speaks for your average Democrat.They both appeal to the "frothing at the mouth' factions, in my opinion

Czuch: can anyone give me an answer to that???
I hear liberals say things like Democrats are for the little guy and republicans are for the big companies... or we need a change of direction for this country... or I am for abortion or all kinds of aloof platitudes like that... but unlike conservatives, I never really hear about over all general types of values or ideals?

You bring up socialism to most liberals and they run away like a fire just started, for that matter, you just bring up the word liberalism, and most people will tell you they are not liberals, no I am just an open minded independent who just happens to always vote democrat, or never votes for any republicans!


Maybe you Jim? You seem like a level minded liberal willing to stand behind your ideals? What are they, really? What do liberals stand for, if its not socialism and bigger government and spreading the wealth etc, what are the ideals of liberals, maybe I will become one too!

Jim Dandy: Hannity doesn't appeal or speak for your average Republican anymore than Olbermann speaks for your average Democrat


Sure he does... the fringe republican is the skin head racist, hannity doesnt speak to that fringe, he speaks to the common core values most average conservatives believe in, yes he points out problems with democrats when they conflict with what conservatives want, but for the most part, you dont hear Olberman speaking about what is good and right for this country except in the form of putting down Bush...

I can speak all day about what I want for this country without once mentioning what a loser I think kennedy or pelosi Et Al are or what losers liberals or democrats are, I dont know Olberman can?

Czuch: I'll be honest with you.The premis of your question is a lousy start point for any discussion I'd want to join.But good luck with your tossing of red meat

Just once I would like to hear a lib politician sit down and look you in the eye and say, "what this country needs is more social programs to help the disadvantaged, even if it comes at the expense of taking money from other hard working people, we need a country based on the economic policies of Sweden, and 70% taxes to with it, we need the government to take control of the oil industry and education and the banks and the internet and most everything else, we need to get rid of the military and then the rest of the world will do the same,we need the government to do everything for its people, and admittance into education and jobs should not be based on merit but on quotas.....

Jim Dandy: just give me a quick list...

More free market or less?

More quotas or less?

More government control and regulation or less?

Less military or more?

Higher taxes or fewer?

more social programs or less?

get the idea? I dont think liberals have any core ideals, really? I think you are all over the map, one hates war, one hates abortion, one hates big oil companies, one wants a free ride, one wants the government to regulate regulate regulate, one wants.... there really is no one core message, is there?

Conservatives arent fractured like that, You give me a topic and I can formulate my opinions on that topic based around my core ideals, not based on some emotional or feel good bleeding heart, i dont think liberals can say the same, but I would love to be proven wrong?

Czuch: so...in your opionion...are all democrats liberal?? and ALL rep. conservative??

Czuch: I'm a fiscal conservative,social democrat,I might even lean Republican if they acted conservative,but that ship has sailed

Czuch: Its all about personal responsibility... a conservative spills coffee on themselves and doesnt think about suing and doesnt blame the lawyers and ask for more government regulation of lawyers so that dumb people cant sue for being stupid.

A conservative doesnt get pregnant and use abortion as birth control, a conservative says i messed up and now I will have this child and deal with it, women do have a right to choose, and you chose it when you had unprotected sex.

A conservative doesnt say wha wha wha, there are no white people in that college, you have to let me in just because I am white.

Conservatives dont say "I just was born disadvantaged, its not my faulty, the government owes me something".

You give me an issue, and I will look at it from the perspective of personal responsibility and I will make my choice about that topic based on those conclusions... maybe right maybe wrong, but surly I take a stand and I believe and I act.... I dont see that in liberals, I would have way more respect for a far left nut with an honest belief in their principles, than I do some fence sitting take no stance middle of the road Im no liberal I believe in nothing!

Artful Dodger: lookie!! I am not the only one that uses "whaa!!" hehehee

anastasia: so...in your opionion...are all democrats liberal?? and ALL rep. conservative??

good question.... I dont really know... thats why I generally tend to consider myself a conservative, so I guess i would say that all republicans are conservatives, but all conservatives are not republican, but they are probably not democrats either, more likely some libertarian types, which I probably fall under that more as well.

Liberal/democrats I dont know how that one works... thats why I tend to argue more against liberals than democrats, and i try to talk about conservatives rather than republicans, like I said, we have skin head tpyes that vote republican, but they are not really conservatives.

Artful Dodger: We are in full agreement on that

Jim Dandy: I'm a fiscal conservative,social democrat,I might even lean Republican if they acted conservative,but that ship has sailed

Okay, thanks! But given the lack of choice, is McCain or Obama more conservative? Its hard to believe someone who says they would lean republican if they were more conservative and then voted for the least conservative senator(most liberal) in congress for president?