Czuch: For someone who says he is for less government control, you sure do seem to want to give the police the power to be thugs.

Czuch: I just replied to this.

Czuch: No.. he wasn't.. If you'd watch the video you'd know that.

There is no reason to shove to the ground someone is doing nothing violent. IT IS AGAINST THE LAW, if a policeman did that to me, I would have the right to make a citizens arrest against that police officer.

You've got it wrong. As Art said, if he had done something wrong .. like verbally abusive.. then he is arrested. As he wasn't and went on and died somewhere else just a few minutes later... then he can't have done anything AS HE WOULD HAVE BEEN ARRESTED by the police at the time of their interaction with them.

HE WASN'T ARRESTED.

Artful Dodger: What actions? Having his hands in his pockets and walking off home?

He did nothing wrong, but be in the line of a bad tempered police officer.. A bad apple is a bad apple.

Artful Dodger: He wasn't in the best of health, and the current cause is abdominal bleeding. They are now doing more tests to be precise over the exact reason why of the bleeding. But the policeman involved ... as I've said ... is being interviewed under caution of suspected manslaughter. He is suspended until further notice, ie the results from the tests.

Czuch: A BIT OF A NUDGE!!!!!!!! He was shoved with BOTH HANDS from BEHIND.

NO BOMBS, NO IMMEDIATE THREATS.

The guy was just going home.

Czuch: Well the Independent Police complaints commission are handling the case. His walk home was through the area of the G20 protests, his crime.. none.

They are also looking into that he might have been assaulted by the police before hand and why did he need to be git with a baton and shoved from the back to the ground.

He did nothing wrong Czuch, he just wanted to get home to watch the football.

You've got it wrong Czuch.... completely wrong. And the police are not above the law. PERIOD.

Czuch: Don't talk about something when you have not watched the video. The guy was on his way home from work, he was harmless.

And our police can carry guns, especially at airports.

The bloke had done nothing.

Bottom line is, you are talking about something you obviously don't know anything about.

And the guy who died who the police blamed the crowds.. but then video appeared of the guy with his hand in his pockets being shoved from behind by a policeman, resulting in him falling on his stomach.

... He didn't die off a heart attack, he died of abdominal bleeding.

The policeman is now being interviewed under caution on suspicion of manslaughter

More tests need to be made to be sure, to work out why the bleeding happened

But the point still arises... why make a physically aggressive attack on a man with his hand in his pockets?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8004222.stm

But then The "Territorial Support Group" is just a renamed "Special Patrol Group"..... and their record was ..... less then perfect to say the least.

Snoopy: Yep. The 'management' got caught out.. time to face the music and not hide behind some political spin.

Artful Dodger: Well.... If I go by "Wikipedia".....

It started in the 1990's but warnings have been said by many international organisations.

Actually.. I've learnt that a 'anti pirate force' called Combined Task Force 151 has been in place..

..... But the size was only 2 ships.. everyone wants to send more.. but the usual red tape... ....

Artful Dodger: Nope. I'm actually surprised that no real action has been taken by various naval powers before hand.

It's not exactly a new problem.

Artful Dodger: Marines, etc on every ship. Some nice 20mm cannons and a few guided surface to surface missiles. eheheheheh.

Use the old ruse of hiding the heavy weaponry like they did in WWII to catch the U-boats out.

Artful Dodger: International force of warships running escort just like in WWII... only way.

Artful Dodger: Unfortunately in matter like this, such action has a high friendly death toll probability. If you wanted to really stop the pirates, you'd have to show that having a hostage is not a shield.

.... As for Reagan..... Sure he was tough. He traded weapons for people... A great stance against terrorists.

Artful Dodger: Instances where USA citizens have been taken hostage. Then there are those taken in Iraq..

Artful Dodger: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Iran is one of them.. aka Iran-gate.

Artful Dodger: Us hostages have been taken before. Maybe not in this area, but certainly in other areas of the world.

Snoopy: Yep... Just like the underground shooting of a suspected 'terrorist'.. And they wander why some peoples faith in police is shaken.

Snoopy: 5 minutes before he had a heart attack!!

Disgusting.

Bernice: Well if the people of the UK get their way, she'll be paying it all back.

If not... she'll be a Titanic for MP expenses on second homes.

Czuch: That is a problem getting sorted out. At least over here some of the problems are now being looked into.

I mean... eg The Home Secretary saying her main home is sharing a house with her sister in London.. whilst 'under the rules' over £100,000 has gone in improving her family home as 'under the rules' it is her second home and therefore she can claim 'expenses'.... Like for a £500 sink and a 32" LCD flat screen TV.

Being a politician is such a hard life. ..... NOT

Someone leaked her expense receipts to the press.

Czuch: Well, I just trust that it'll all be sorted in the end. I must say that in recent years a lot of problems have been noted in this world of ours, and that we can't fix them all at once.

Some... will take time. Some are not under our control.. we just have to go with the flow and trust in humanity and that it will prevail in the end.

Czuch: Th UN is 'ineffective' .... Is that so in Afghanistan, and how despite certain peoples disbelief, Iraq had no WMD's. Bosnia.. and all the other conflicts the UN has taken part in.

They are only ineffective if.. they do not agree as happens in any form of governing body (like in your senate, etc) .. or, they are blocked by a country vetoing direct action, or vetoing letters of discontent.

Did you hear recently, that team is being sent in to check on possible war crimes in the recent Gaza strip conflict. Israel feel they are being picked on.... But how can the 'free' show that they uphold their own laws and are morally 'superior' if we do not scrutinise without favour, our own actions.

Snoopy: By the sounds of it, it's going to take a while to get sorted out.

Unfortunately by my experience, there are many things that need sorting out regarding procedures and guidelines regarding health care policies. Complaining and make petitions unfortunately in many cases seems the only way.

'da management' don't often think.

Artful Dodger: They did cover the peaceful protesters, and reported that most were a good natured bunch.

... But without the bad being reported, how are people going to be able to stand up and say "No, that is not right".

We don't want to go back to the days of too much secrecy, where people (and organisations) could get away with blue murder and no-one knew.

Snoopy: I know... It needs to be lowered further to catch the rare cases.

It WILL happen.

Bernice: There are more important things then money!! Like health, happiness, wisdom and things like making someone lives up to their contractual obligations.

Snoopy: The lowest age that the risk is significant is 25, but women are allowed to go to their GP and request a check up under that age if they are concerned.

Artful Dodger: In some respects it's a bad thing, in some respects it's good. It depends on what the news is about.

EG... a certain celeb died recently over here, but the lining is that women who'd till that time not been screened for cervical cancer are now getting screened.

'Titanics'.

Czuch: I didn't believe the hype, or say it was all soldiers, Because that is never the case. And I hope those who broke the law do get locked up... It'll make it better for the peaceful protesters in the future... Just like they did with the football thugs over here!!

Czuch... there is the reality of war and there are war crimes. Some things in war are just not acceptable, especially as us 'westerners' are supposed to be the moral bunch. If you do as those who you say are animals then you are an animal.... No matter who it is.

And Czuch... it wasn't hyped up. The news here said it was a few isolated soldiers, but they also said that in some cases it was encouraged.

Old saying... "In fighting a monster do not become one, as in becoming one... you have lost the war."

Bernice: No, as I said, much more important things then the G20 and the news this week.

Artful Dodger: ... they were using high level CCTV throughout.

Snoopy: In any protest there will be elements that want to cause trouble. The minority do not represent us or show us up, they just show that there are elements in the UK just like the rest of the world. A shame, but just reality.

Bernice: I missed that one then.... The G20 and news has not been a high priority this week for me. Many, many other things that needed my attention, which were way more important.

Artful Dodger: Israel wanting to get all warlike again ...... It speaks to me of unresolved anger issues. I think they should get help

It also makes me wonder how many strings are being pulled and by whom? Just a niggle, but my niggle sense is good.

Bernice: ... Well that is news reporting. As one news anchorman said "good news is not good news".

Of course they are going to show the bad bits more... duhhhhh, but over the G20 summit only 122 arrests have been made.

The BBC say... "a little of it intensely violent - but most of it overwhelmingly peaceful and benign."

And no deaths that I've seen reported. As the old saying goes... don't believe the hype.

Snoopy: I remember when they were first shown on the BBC

Czuch: Nahhhh mostly peaceful protesters who the police have even commentated are a good humoured bunch just exercising their right to show their displeasure at the messes recently... amongst other things. Only 87 predicted arrests out of the whole day. Some have been caught and others have been warned that they will get a knock on the door soon. Whether they get all 87.. who knows, but I expect the majority will be caught and prosecuted. It's a shame they have to spoil a good ol' British peaceful demo.

ScarletRose: Laid back and desired. That suggests that the inmates are so use to prison they find the order there much easier then the outside world. And just because they are criminals and even killed people doesn't mean that they should be denied basic rights of health. And as for counselling.. I've seen some serial killers when interviewed show more honesty then many politicians. I mean.. to say that you shouldn't be released.. ever, is to me a great thing to admit, to say you know you are not safe and don't want to hurt anyone else!!! And that as you probably are aware that such monsters are created and not born like that has to be considered. And if that person needs help you propose not helping them is not good I feel.

Snoopy: Ahhhh are you going back to the wonderful programs "Yes Minister" and "Yes Prime minister"?

Bernice: Just a remark. Nothing more.

Artful Dodger: Yep. Every 4-5 years there is a general election. MP's get voted for as part of the process. Also local councillors are subject to election as well.

The only ones exempt seems to be civil servants!!

Snoopy: It better not be a whitewash, as if it is... I can see the papers.. um.. um.. saying it nicely... reporting that it is a whitewash.

And if that happens, the confidence of the British people regarding Parliament will hit rock bottom.

And yes... sleaze is what our MP's seem to be best at.

Snoopy: He's the President, unfortunately in the past pot shots have been taken at Presidents and the like (remember Reagan and I think Pope John Paul II).... so they take trusted medical staff and supplies in case of emergencies.

Yep, they are out for themselves.... This case of the Home secretary claiming over £100,000 for the family home (and classing it as her second home) just because she says she lives with her sister in London whilst working is taking the mickey.

I hope the inquiry does start soon into expenses. They were going to leave the report being done and published until after the elections next year.. But I think they finally got the idea that Joe public is getting very peeved over so much money being spent on what is being considered as pocket lining.

Snoopy: Basically yes. And I think you need to be more concerned over how our MP's last year claimed nearly £100 million pounds in expenses... over £130,000 per MP on average!!!!

Some have claimed that is because their wages are to low.

Artful Dodger: More honesty in Government, and hopefully certain agencies in the USA finally reigned in. And to see if your government is being controlled by others directly and indirectly.

Czuch: Sorry.. I'll remember to use the word lied to. It's more accurate in this case, We were told that Saddam could attack UK bases in 45 minutes.... that was a lie.

.... A deliberate one.

Artful Dodger: Early morning guff??

Seriously though... It would be nice for a full investigation to take place. Just to put minds at rest.... or at least by close observation of those giving evidence to see if the wool has been tried to be pulled over our eyes.

Some small investigations have taken place over here, and revealed that certain elements of what we were told before going into Iraq were false. Unfortunately it wasn't in the enquiries remit to go deeper.