Iamon lyme: Right, lets be correct instead of over dramatic. I have nothing to fear from peace loving people of any religion. That you are saying those who attacked and do attack are peace loving is contradictory.. They are militants.. but just those.

Just like in Northern Ireland. Catholics were shooting at and blowing up us and the loyalists, Protestants were shooting and blowing up the Catholics. Most wanted peace, hence the peace talks and an end to the war.... BAR a few individuals who still are fighting as an IRA splinter group or as a loyalist splinter group.

I'm aware that maybe one of those splinter groups could get a bright idea and bomb somewhere I goto, some white supremacist could go on a bombing spree, some terrorist... sorry, lets be correct.. one of these terrorist groups as well as another group such as some Al Qaeda aligned group or individual could go on a killing spree.

Some other Terrorist group could play 'up', as there are many various 'disputes' in Europe and the old Soviet block and many different groups on the watch list.

Rich bored kids with a university education, but psychotic. They use to be the one to look out for.. rebelled against 'mummy and daddy' and off and joined some freedom cause.

... Instead I just go on as normal. Except for that one time I was working in London and there was an IRA bomb scare. We got stuck for 2 hours waiting for the all clear!!

Iamon lyme: Sometimes the full facts just don't come out all at once.. There were several things going on at the same time it that town on the same day!

Did all the details on who/what/why come out regarding the 9/11 in the first week? No, they didn't.

"[ You want special privileges for Christianity here.. ] Didn't say that."

Ok.. what then? You want God to stop talking to you? The Bible says everything is of God and only our 'human' perception stops us seeing what 'He' is saying? As Stephen Fry points out.. even the stuff we see as really bad.

Iamon lyme: Didn't say that.

I said if you behave hateful here, it does not matter what religion you are. Christian, Islam, Buddhist, Hindu, Jedi, Scientologist, Wiccan, Druid, Satanist, Atheist, Zen, Rastafarian, or any other ist or ian you can think of.

You want special privileges for Christianity here.. get a position within the CoE high clergy and prove you are fit to be a member of the "House of Lords".

Iamon lyme: Yes, but I include responsibility with that freedom.

"then why do liberals applaud that freedom when Christians are criticised and defamed, but deplore it when Islam is treated with the same lack of respect?"

If (here in the UK) a Church, Synagogue, Temple, etc is attacked, they are all treated the same by the police and get the same equal rights when it comes to any problems.

"They choose who deserves that freedom and who doesn't according to their own beliefs, and demonstrate it by their actions. If you don't think this is what has been happening then you haven't been paying attention,"

Again, I have to go by the UK laws.. everyone has the right to practice whatever religion they want, as long as they don't use it to commit any crimes, or expect their 'church' to be above UK law. If (like with that Islamic cleric now extradited to the US) they start spewing what our UK law states is hate speech, then they will have to answer for it.

"Who was arrested and hauled off to jail in the middle of the night for placing a crucifix in a jar of urine and displaying it at an art gallery? No one."

It's not specified in the Bible as being a holy object like The Koran says about Muhammed. I'm use to a country where "Jesus Christ" is an expression and the name of Logos. We make the sign of a cross as a joke when it comes to things like.. bad farts, or making fun of someones bad make up idea!!

If someone wanted to here, they could go to the police on any desecration, they could also take it to a civil court. But a case HAS TO BE PROVEN.

.. ok, you say a cross in urine is bad... I would like to know what the artist meant before I could say it was. Sorry, but urine is one of those strange bodily fluids that can be seen as good or bad depending on your situation or what you know. Watching the likes of Bear Grylls it is a drinkable liquid, others say it cures athletes food and is still taught to soldiers as a 'trick'.

As to those militants who attacked the consulate, Libyan protestors have driven them out of their compound and torched it...

"The trigger for the assault on the paramilitaries was a "Save Benghazi" protest after the main weekly Muslim prayers on Friday that was joined by some 30,000 peaceful demonstrators. It drowned out a smaller rally attended by just a few hundred people called by the jihadists and hardline Islamists angry over a US-made film that mocks Islam and cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed published by a French magazine.

Demonstrators paid tribute to Ambassador Stevens and the other Americans killed in the September 11 assault on the US consulate in the city that Washington now says was a "terrorist" attack.

"Libya lost a friend," read one banner. "We want justice for Stevens," said another.

Jihadist militants of Ansar al-Sharia fired in the air as they retreated from their headquarters in the face of the overwhelmingly superior numbers of the protesters."

>>>>> Did you read/see/hear that last bit anywhere?

SL-Mark: And google, plus a few others.

The Col: Well it now replaces my mental note on the nearest we got to M.A.D.

.. I thought the one when a Russian officer had to decide on whether the satellites were right in telling him the US had launched a pre-emptive strike or not, was the closest. Luckily he decided they were wrong (as they were)....

Starbucks UK is confused. It's telling the tax man it's not making a profit, yet telling investors it's making a good profit.

Interesting (and frightening) to hear how close the Cuban missile crises nearly ended up irradiating the world.

I heard today that a Soviet diesel submarine was submerged off the Cuban coast, while the US navy were playing nearby. The captain decided when they were nearly out of air to go out with a bang and fire the nuclear tipped torpedo they were carrying.

Luckily the crew sided behind his second in command, and decided it was not a good idea. The Captain was removed from command of the submarine.

It's the kinda fact that drives a person to be a drink short of being sober as described by Terry Pratchett regarding Captain Vimes.

The Col: Obama got his cojones in gear.

.. If he hadn't, I'd have to get someone to give him an "Archie"

Iamon lyme: Yes. You've decided that Christians can be insulted by liberals.

You were not born with that thought. Jesus does not teach that thought. God certainly cannot be affected by any critical analysis of the ol' Elohim... Further more as God is beyond religion.. Elohim is not Christian.

So what exactly is it that hurts Christians (in your mind) that is being said?

Can you give an example??

Iamon lyme: Wow.. such drama..

"If making offensive remarks against religion is such a bad thing, then why do liberals go out of their way to lie about and make offensive remarks and materials against Christians?"

Who says they are offensive?

You just basically made my point valid.

Thankyou

Iamon lyme: Making offensive material regarding another religion is a liberty that needs to be kept? Burning flags, bibles, Korans??

Iamon lyme: Yep... we just end up with messes like 9/11... It's nice that training given to kill Russians kills Americans.... NOT.

Bwild: Because some events keep happening, it's not new. Will it really infringe on your liberties.. no.

Bwild: Death of Americans kinda now... it's not new that it's happened.

Iamon lyme: It was used significantly at the time of the American revolution.. The French helped you. It has been used throughout history, by various groups.. Like when the Dutch became allies with great Britain regarding the Spaniards.

Throughout the cold war it was used by various governments.. even in the NI troubles, it was significant that the UK army was passing on info regarding IRA members and supporters to the loyalist paramilitaries.. who then 'executed' them.

When the US peeved off Gaddafi, he got back by supplying the IRA with weapons.

Shakespeare in his plays you'll find instances... The stories of the Greek Gods are laden with "the enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Bwild: "here and now" encompasses alot of things.. your gonna have to be more specific.

Bwild: Which vital facts.. sorry, but so many get used it's hard to keep track.

"and because of history..its ok for the current administration to pass the blame on our civil liberties?"

Your liberties have been eroded for years... decades, to some degree centuries.

Are you talking about the video, free speech?

"does that make it ok for your neighbor to drag your wife out of your house to his by the hair screaming and kicking?"

No, nor does it make it right for the husband to do it, but we hear of abuse cases going on around the world.

Artful Dodger: You could, but then history becomes a rather fragmented oddity.

Like the House Republicans cutting the budget on embassy security funding by over $400 million dollars over the last two years, that the Obama administration warned that the cuts would be “detrimental to America’s national security”.

See, that is a fuller picture we have now.

Artful Dodger: Just like 9/11 ... Clinton warned Bush, others before the attack (as in other country's intelligence agencies) warned Bush... he went on another holiday.

Bwild: At the moment we are having a string of 'abnormal' weather. Dry winter. hot spring, wet summer.

.. Fuel luckily is cheaper for farmers, dyed red as normal drivers can't use it to stop theft.

"we had our worst drought in 50 years here...but guess what...gardens didnt suffer much..corn fields did..but wine production will have a bonus year."

Yeah I saw on the news.. bloody jet stream was out of position. You got our sun, we got your rain. N' others rain as well, one months worth in 24 hours in several places last week.

.... maybe we can export some if we keep getting it.

... Reliable food production needs reliable weather.

.. any droughts or floods this year anyone? Food prices rising through grain and other items harvest being low? Allotments flooded, tomatoes not ripe?

Guess yet another strange summer isn't having floods here in the UK, houses and roads washed away isn't strange.. as it's becoming more common.

Bwild: Looks nice. Band saw works for me!!.. plus me fretsaw and jigsaw.

Five Royal Marines have been charged with murder over an incident in Afghanistan in 2011, the MoD has said. It says nine marines were arrested over the incident, involving an insurgent. Four have been released without charge.

The five charged remain in custody, and the next stage of the process is likely to be trial by court martial. The marines were arrested by the Royal Military Police after suspicious video footage was found on a serviceman's laptop by civilian police in the UK.

The charges are related to an incident in Afghanistan last year, when Royal Marine 3 Commando Brigade was based in Helmand. The MoD previously said the incident followed an "engagement with an insurgent" and no civilians were involved. It is believed to be the first time UK servicemen have been arrested and charged with such charges during the Afghanistan conflict.

The Service Prosecuting Authority (SPA), an independent body that conducts prosecutions on behalf of the military, decided the five should face murder charges. Speaking on the BBC's Andrew Marr Show, Defence Secretary Philip Hammond did not comment on the specifics of the case but insisted the MoD was "determined that rules of engagement" be followed.

He added: "Everybody serving in theatre knows the rules of engagement, they carry cards in their uniforms with the rules on them in case they should need to remind themselves." During a six-month tour of duty, which lasted from April to October last year, seven servicemen from 3 Commando Brigade were killed in action, all from 42 Commando.

A court martial is a public court with similar powers to a crown court. It can impose prison sentences, fines or other forms of justice depending upon the nature of the crime. They are presided over by a judge advocate and a board of up to seven lay members, individuals with no legal training much like a jury in civilian courts.

The MoD said it would be inappropriate to comment further on the ongoing investigation.

Iamon lyme: Which type? I approve of a certain body we have here called "trading standards", guarantee, contract, contract as laid down in statutes of law that are statuary, and the magic roundabout... as well as responsibility not to use one if you don't know how..

... seeing videos of men cutting trees down wrong, seeing guys on "Watchdog" use the wrong chain saw for a job.. I've seen.

All this comes to mind when as a customer you enter into a shop to buy a chainsaw. Contract law starts at the point of sale, as does it for the shop owner when buying it from the manufacturer.

This is the UK... not the US with multi million dollar pay outs. This is how our law sees it.

Iamon lyme: Why do you think that of others?

Mote comes to mind

The Col: Nooooo, just an excuse... like using God, or babies. If the American conservative Christians were as being 'stated', then the mess of Agent Orange would have been cleared up decades ago.

They'd have marched on Washington!

mckinley: Well... all those arms companies in the USA are reliant wars..... rednecks, doomsday preppers!!

mckinley: For what purpose would he keep it going? Distraction?? If the economy gets bad they can just occupy the front pages with more brave men and women dying in a foreign field figures and pictures!

mckinley: They can't do anything that's why. To ban abortion would be as such recreating the times when women were second class citizens with no real vote or say in their lives. The rich who want an abortion will find a good private doctor, or go abroad.. the poor well, they don't count we've been told by Romney and by people here on this board.

US is equal bottom with Mexico on child deaths from maltreatment. It has the worst record in the industrialised world regarding child abuse. Part of the problem is this idea of keeping families together no matter what that is advocated by certain parties.

No one likes abortion, but that does not mean others have the right to send it back into the back street era.

mckinley: Well it beats trying to win in Afghanistan. No one ever has, and without using WMD's (aka nukes)... no-one ever will.

On tonight's HIGNFY, it was pointed out that while "The Daily Mail Online" is rightfully laying into Jimmy Savile, it's own history of picture taking is far from moral regarding under-age children. It is also noted that as soon as any female reaches 16 she is fair game. Many articles can be found under a search of the site with three words...

... "all grown up".

It was also noted that pictures of celeb women in all manners of attire are perfectly ok on the site

... You see.. in those stories it's all about how the women's sizes keep changing.

So playing



Is bad? I kill demons me!!

Iamon lyme: Literal cluster bombs... it has relevance.

Iamon lyme: I am as I am. No more and no less and content with that.

Do you approve of cluster bombs?

Iamon lyme: ahhh the 'ex liberal'.. just like ex smokers. Ok.. we get it, you had a revelation and realised you could blame things on being liberal.

Isn't that though a bit hypocritical, as apparently we can't blame Bush anymore!

Does your DNA approve of cluster bombs?

Iamon lyme: Are eggshells a popular floor covering in your world?

mckinley: Hopefully the natives can remain not stoned long enough to fight.. But I think maybe both sides do.. Maybe we should leave them all to get stoned, can't see them fighting then!!

mckinley: From what I've seen.. he did. If Ryan was genuine he'd have had answers. Bad show for not doing his homework!!

mckinley: Well with a person on the 'other side' with no idea, it gets annoying that you can't say ..."you are an idiot".

It also had a superb moderator, Martha Raddatz, holding the ring
between them covering a range of subjects from taxation to Iran, from
abortion to Afghanistan. Most politically committed people will claim their man won and the argument can be made both ways.

Mr Biden won on points, perhaps, but his manner may have put off some undecided voters.

He was stronger, more aggressive, more certain of his
position - but chuckled, laughed, smiled, grinned at his opponent, in a
way that was certainly condescending and that some will have found
irritating. Paul Ryan, for someone with no foreign policy experience, put
on a good show but was unable to answer some tough questions,
particularly on Afghanistan and Syria.

His weakness was caused directly by an ideological desire to attack President Obama for being weak, without having decided what a stronger policy would actually look like.

He couldn't say what he would do differently in Syria, what
would cause troops to stay in Afghanistan or indeed what tax loopholes
he would close.

The debate on unemployment and taxation was generally much
more evenly matched. Mr Ryan has been painted as a bogeyman by Democrats
but came across generally as serious and likeable.

The Beltway crowd persist in seeing Mr Biden as a clown. He might have laughed too much but the man on stage was no fool.This debate probably won't change much - the ball is still very much in Mr Obama's court next week.

>>>>>>>>>>>> Politicians in the UK who try to get away with having no policy get crucified by our UK political analysts.... Especially on live progs.

The Col: Flip Flop MItt, a man of no rock solid values.

A Syrian-bound plane intercepted by Turkey was carrying Russian-made defence equipment destined for Syria's defence ministry, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan has said.

"Passenger aircraft cannot carry ammunition and defence equipment," Mr Erdogan said, adding, "unfortunately there was such equipment on board". Turkish jets forced the plane, coming from Moscow, to land in Ankara.

Syria and Russia have denied the plane was carrying illegal cargo. They have accused Turkey of putting lives in danger.

The Syrian Air Airbus A320, with about 30 passengers on board, was intercepted on Wednesday evening by two Turkish fighters and escorted to the capital's Esenboga airport. Turkey said previously it had received an intelligence tip-off that it had illegal cargo on board.

Speaking to reporters in Ankara, Mr Erdogan said: "This was equipment and ammunition that was being sent from a Russian agency... to the Syrian Defence Ministry."

"Their examination is continuing and the necessary will follow," he added. He said the supplier was the equivalent of Turkey's state-run arms supplier, the Mechanical and Chemical Industry Corporation.

Russia's state arms export agency Rosoboronexport had earlier said it had no information about the plane's cargo and denied it had any connection with the flight or anything on board.

Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu has said Turkey is determined to stop any transfer of weapons to Syria through its airspace.

Artful Dodger: All you've done is gone from discussing racism and the Southern strategy... to you YET AGAIN complaining that YET ANOTHER information resource is anti american conservative or doesn't know what it's about.

..... It was called "the southern strategy," started under Richard M. Nixon in 1968, and described Republican efforts to use race as a wedge issue -- on matters such as desegregation and busing -- to appeal to white southern voters.

Ken Mehlman, the Republican National Committee chairman, this morning will tell the NAACP national convention in Milwaukee that it was "wrong."

"By the '70s and into the '80s and '90s, the Democratic Party solidified its gains in the African American community, and we Republicans did not effectively reach out," Mehlman says in his prepared text. "Some Republicans gave up on winning the African American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization. I am here today as the Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/13/AR2005071302342.html

>>>> I can find you 100's of articles from 100's of various organisations...

But they will all be wrong as Art says so... For Denial said so, so it must be.

... Just like his source who says WWI was started by Liberals...Just like Jesus never healed or encouraged people to heal others regardless.

... Conservatism says no... It's all wrong, and only our opinion counts.
 
It's far better just to focus on wiki.. change the subject

First it was google... now it's wiki.. is it next ... .... ... the internet?!!?

Daniel, is this it for the next week.. wiki?? zzzzzzz zzzzzz

Artful Dodger: At the Dentist?? Steve Martin is replacing ... ... ...

Your sources are less reliable, so drop wiki as a point to fight over. It's really dumb.

mckinley: No, just Art slams everything that doesn't support his ideology, I wouldn't mind it so much if he backed it up, but mostly it's just waffle that is meaningless over 'integrity'... zzzzzz zzzzzzz zzzzzz

Artful Dodger: Dan... If your 'scholarly' sources state that the democrats started WWII... well. Seeing as wiki actually gets that right, I'd believe it over anything you can produce to back up such a statement. I'd also believe the history lessons I got taught at school, the Discovery channel, the History channel and the other 99.999999% of the world who KNOW it was NOT the Democrats.

Do you seriously believe what you posted? If you do, then there is little hope for you.. I'll make sure you get to choose the colour of your jacket this time!!