mckinley: Our own lusts. ie yetzer ra, an evil impulse.

Bwild: And what is the DeViL? An entity or a description for some element of the human condition?

Übergeek 바둑이: Same with Zen... which I think compliments Christianity well. It helps bring you back to the basics.. fixing yourself instead of blaming some fictional entity like the DeViL.... There is no personal responsibility in such blaming... just excuses.

The Col: Quebec sounds like Scotland and Wales. They've both got some form of own government, but are still tied to the UK.

Iamon lyme: I have no bitter catholic school memories, it was a great school. Being a Christian does not mean you cannot be critical of your own religion.

... Especially dogmatic Christian values based on inaccurate translation and/or interpretation... being pushed on others. That seems totally counter to the aspect laid down by God of free will.

EXAMPLE FROM QUEBEC

Quebec’s Ministry of Education is forcing all students in the province, whether in private or public school, to take a mandatory course in ‘moral relativism’, euphemistically named Ethics and Religious Culture. It teaches for instance, that all religions and ethical choices are equal. In an appeal process that is still ongoing, a Quebec Superior Court decision provided exemption for a private Catholic boys’ school, ruling that the government was "totalitarian" to impose its course on that school. The Quebec government has since appealed that decision to the Supreme court, at great cost to the families involved.
EXAMPLES FROM ONTARIO

Premier Dalton McGuinty has rolled out implementation of his gay equity policy for the 2011 school year. It is called the Equity and Inclusive Education Strategy" (EIES) and targets both Catholic and public schools. The EIES uses the classroom as a vehicle to indoctrinate students into total acceptance of the homosexual lifestyle, a controversial idea which attacks the religious beliefs that the majority of parents, especially new immigrants, try to instil in their kids at home. This represents an unconstitutional abuse of power, using state-sponsored propaganda to subvert parents’ rights over the moral education of their own kids. Dalton McGuinty also admitted at Toronto’s 2011 gay pride parade, that his government is aiming to change "attitudes" on homosexuality, a process he says "should begin in the home."

The role of government does not include setting children against the religious beliefs of their parents. Yet, below are a few examples from McGuinty’s EIE government documents which illustrate this is precisely what’s happening. McGuinty’s EIE directive recommends that all schools should:

celebrate the Gay Pride Parade as "equity-related work"
set up openly homosexual student clubs know as ‘Gay-Straight Alliances’ (GSAs)
use texts written by gay/lesbian authors
help teachers to "modify personal beliefs"

The negative effects of this controversial directive have already been seen in the following examples:

The Toronto District School Board announced that it will no longer allow parents to opt-out their kids from gay-positive lessons, nor provide parental notification of such lessons, even if requested. Teachers will be compelled to teach this material, even if it conflicts with their religious beliefs.
The Hamilton-Wentworth District School Board told a Christian parent that his request to be notified about gay-affirming lessons will not be accommodated, nor is he allowed to withdraw his kids. They said it would be "discriminatory" to honour his request.
Ontario’s Catholic bishops were bullied by government officials into allowing homosexual‘anti-bullying’ clubs in Catholic schools. These misguided clubs are set to begin September 2011. A member of the Bishop’s committee overseeing these clubs has already admitted that they are simply GSAs with a different name.

It seems the Arctic ice is at a strangely low level. Not good for the reflection of sunlight.

The Col: I'd like to see him be a guest presenter on HIGNFY.

Especially after his reply to Ann Coulter and her stating he was gay... That he did say it, as "a polite excuse to explain why he was not hitting on her bony ass"

The Col: I saw him being interviewed by some guy from Fox who tried to rewrite history regarding Clinton and Bin Lady... He wasn't having it!!

Iamon lyme: We have no laws here that prevent religious people taking part in government, the laws that did come into power regarding the CoE were that they possessed no other foreign loyalties, such as to the Pope... That the Monarch was the head of state. An early Patriot test in times of many wars between England and various European countries.

Now it seems in the US that the Bible is being used to decide policy and or allegiances. Pretty much what happened back in 17th and 18th century UK. Can you see the similarity?

... It wouldn't be so bad if the interpretation and application of the Bible was true to the intent as stated by Christ, it seems though to be just a means to get people to blindly follow like they have been taught/scared into blindly following a version of God.

... A version.

The Col: Clinton's speech was good. Very Good.

mckinley: I thought God was supposed to be left out of politics. A separation between God and the State.

... Lest we forget the past and what has happened when in 'Christian' countries the church was the state. St Thomas More had people burned at the stake for reading the Bible in English!!

...... King James launched a mass hysteria on Witches... even more strange since the most famous verse used in to vindicate this action was to do with ... getting a woman pregnant out of wedlock.

in polls done, 9/10 Americans believe Obama is a legit American..

.... Apart from in the South.

McCain was ok, the senate said so, even though he was born outside the USA. Panama canal zone wasn't it!!

Oh well.

Tea party members seem to have no problem using the word ... nazi..

Other word in popular use is 'socialist', 'liberal', 'constitution', 'American'.

If the right here prefers it, the use of the terminology from "1984" and/or "Animal Farm" are to those who've read such classics could be employed if they feel a bit 'sensitive'.

Übergeek 바둑이: I think he's hoping to make some glue to hold the conspiracy together!!

... Country music is lacking in some areas of .. .. power.

Speaking of which.. It looks like the common electron is not a fundamental particle, as in it is made up of smaller particles. But (adopting best Scotty accent) ... we need morrre powerr to prrrobe captain!!

The mother of Irish rock legend Phil Lynott has objected to the Mitt Romney campaign using Thin Lizzy's music at last week's Republican National Convention.

Philomena Lynott said her son would not have approved of the US Republicans playing the Thin Lizzy anthem "The Boys Are Back In Town" at Romney's nomination as presidential candidate.

She said that the late Thin Lizzy front man would have rejected any association with the Republicans particularly the Christian right wing of the party.

The Dublin woman told the Irish music magazine "Hot Press" that she was upset that one of her son's most famous rock songs was used by the Republicans to endorse Romney and his running mate Paul Ryan.

The Thin Lizzy singer would have opposed the Republican anti-gay and pro-rich policies, she said. Instead she believed her son would have backed Barack Obama.

She told the magazine: "As far as I am concerned, Mitt Romney's opposition to gay marriage and to civil unions for gays makes him anti-gay – which is not something that Philip would have supported. He had some wonderful gay friends, as indeed I do, and they deserve equal treatment in every respect, whether in Ireland or the United States.

"Neither would Philip have supported his policy of taxing the poor and offering tax cuts to the rich, which Paul Ryan is advocating. There is certainly no way that I would want the Lynott name to be associated with any of those ideas.

"There is nothing I can do about it except express my views," Philomena Lynott added, "but I do want to be clear that I would not want Philip's music to be used in any way that could hurt a single person, and this is the effect of what happened with Paul Ryan using and abusing my son's music in that way. A lot of fans and musicians are very angry about it and I can fully understand why.

"There is a black president of America, which to me – as it would have been to Philip, as a proud, black Irishman – is wonderfully symbolic.

I have a lot of time for Barack Obama, so to hear 'The Boys Are Back in Town' being appropriated by Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan in their campaign against him is deeply upsetting."

The now 81-year-old Philomena Lynott wrote a best-selling autobiography My Boy about the extraordinarily difficult times she and Philip endured in the UK and Ireland at the beginning of the '50s, following Philip's birth in 1949.

Bwild: The wheel is also a common symbol when it comes to the Gods. A variation on the crucifix and other ancient symbols. The moving God I think it represents.

N' no.. that was from a library book on spiritualism and mysticism. Some old prof explaining it, not google.

I also said "....or just the strange world of unconscious conscious dreams?"

I guess you've never had one of them.

In the end.. Christianity and Aliens.. The book was never about science. Just the church made it that way. Just the way in the UK we are taught about Christianity or was by the teachers at the Catholic school I went to.

....But good news for the poor.. Texas will not be allowed to introduce a poll tax!!

mckinley: We get politicians trying that trick of fake moaning all the time in the UK.

rod03801: I'd simplify the tax system and end stupid multi million court cases... but I'd end the 3 strike rule.

I'd also have a viable NO2 dispersal system for riot control.

"Republican vice-presidential nominee Paul Ryan has come under fire for alleged inaccuracies during his convention debut in Tampa, Florida.

Mr Ryan attacked the president for making cuts to the Medicare healthcare programme, but did not say that his own budget plan includes the same savings. He complained that proposals by a budget commission were not adopted, but did not mention he opposed its report."

Exactly the same as our parties do to each other each election time. A politicians memory is selective to say the least!!

mckinley: No. that's not what I meant.

I looked back some years ago on the origin of 'Satan' and the concept thereof and came across this...

In Genesis 2:7, the Bible states that G-d formed (vayyitzer) man. The spelling of this word is unusual: it uses two consecutive Yods instead of the one you would expect. The rabbis inferred that these Yods stand for the word "yetzer," which means impulse, and the existence of two Yods here indicates that humanity was formed with two impulses: a good impulse (the yetzer tov) and an evil impulse (the yetzer ra).

The yetzer tov is the moral conscience, the inner voice that reminds you of G-d's law when you consider doing something that is forbidden. According to some views, it does not enter a person until his 13th birthday, when he becomes responsible for following the commandments. See Bar Mitzvah.

The yetzer ra is more difficult to define, because there are many different ideas about it. It is not a desire to do evil in the way we normally think of it in Western society: a desire to cause senseless harm. Rather, it is usually conceived as the selfish nature, the desire to satisfy personal needs (food, shelter, sex, etc.) without regard for the moral consequences of fulfilling those desires.

The yetzer ra is not a bad thing. It was created by G-d, and all things created by G-d are good. The Talmud notes that without the yetzer ra (the desire to satisfy personal needs), man would not build a house, marry a wife, beget children or conduct business affairs. But the yetzer ra can lead to wrongdoing when it is not controlled by the yetzer tov. There is nothing inherently wrong with hunger, but it can lead you to steal food. There is nothing inherently wrong with sexual desire, but it can lead you to commit rape, adultery, incest or other sexual perversion.

The yetzer ra is generally seen as something internal to a person, not as an external force acting on a person. The idea that "the devil made me do it" is not in line with the majority of thought in Judaism. Although it has been said that Satan and the yetzer ra are one and the same, this is more often understood as meaning that Satan is merely a personification of our own selfish desires, rather than that our selfish desires are caused by some external force.

People have the ability to choose which impulse to follow: the yetzer tov or the yetzer ra. That is the heart of the Jewish understanding of free will. The Talmud notes that all people are descended from Adam, so no one can blame his own wickedness on his ancestry. On the contrary, we all have the ability to make our own choices, and we will all be held responsible for the choices we make.

http://www.jewfaq.org/human.htm

When I say DeViL or devil or 'devil' and the same on Satan .. I mean it in the sense as above.

IMO treating the devil as an actual real entity takes the Bible into being basically a 'Most Haunted' script.

.. In Job God has a bet with the DeViL that with God's blessing, the 'devil' can test Job and take everything he values on this Earth.

But, the 'DeViL' is not allowed to kill Job. A genocidal God .. .. it doesn't work.

Iamon lyme: Millions of years of tectonic movement in less than what.. a decade??

.. A genocidal God is now what you worship!!

Not quite right but....

"Project Habakkuk or Habbakuk (spelling varies; see below) was a plan by the British in World War II to construct an aircraft carrier out of pykrete (a mixture of wood pulp and ice), for use against German U-boats in the mid-Atlantic, which were beyond the flight range of land-based planes at that time.

The idea came from Geoffrey Pyke who worked for Combined Operations....

...In early 1942 Pyke and Bernal called in Max Perutz to determine whether an ice floe large enough to withstand Atlantic conditions could be built up fast enough. He pointed out that natural icebergs have too small a surface above water for an airstrip, and are prone to suddenly rolling over. The project would have been abandoned, except for the invention of Pykrete, a mixture of water and woodpulp which frozen together was stronger than plain ice, was slower melting, and of course would not sink. It has been suggested that Pyke was inspired by Inuit sleds reinforced with moss.[1] This is probably apocryphal, as the material was originally described in a paper by Mark and Hohenstein in Brooklyn, NY.[2]

Pykrete could be machined like wood and cast into shapes like metal, and when immersed in water formed an insulating shell of wet wood pulp on its surface which protected its interior from further melting. However, Perutz found a problem: ice slowly flows, in what is known as plastic flow, and his tests showed that a Pykrete ship would slowly sag unless it was cooled to −16 °C (3 °F). To accomplish this, the ship's surface would have to be protected by insulation and it would need a refrigeration plant and a complicated system of ducts.[2]

The Col: There was an idea worked on that using a special ice (additives mixed in) .. it would be possible to make a large mile plus size object that wouldn't melt. With modern computers and a nuclear power source it is possible..

.. but back then it was an idea for building massive floating bomber carriers.

Übergeek 바둑이: Noah was a Time Lord and had a TARDIS. That or the original story via oral retelling became a little .. ... exaggerated.

It's a little Gilgameshy in origin... or Atrahasism?? Who knows who first told the tale.

mckinley: Fairy tales are usually stories with lessons/messages wrapped into the telling. There is evidence that there was a major flood at some date previous to the story being written. N' at that time people thinking a God controlled much of the worlds weather.. they wanted reassurance the Gods were not wiping out humanity.

.. plus it helped explain Rainbows!!

A group of American soldiers formed an anarchist militia and plotted to overthrow the United States government, a court in Georgia has heard.

The allegations emerged in a murder case against four soldiers accused of belonging to the group. Prosecutors say the men formed a militia called Fear, standing for Forever Enduring Always Ready. They are alleged to have bought $87,000 (£56,000) worth of arms to bomb targets and assassinate President Obama.

Prosecutor Isabel Pauley told the judge at the Long County court, near the Fort Steward army base, that the militia had bought land in Washington state and planned to bomb a dam and poison apple crops in the area.

Their ultimate aim, she said, was to overthrow the government and assassinate the president.

"This domestic terrorist organisation did not simply plan and talk... Evidence shows the group possessed the knowledge, means and motive to carry out their plans," the Associated Press reports Ms Pauley telling the judge...

....They are accused of the December murder of former soldier Michael Roark, 19, and his girlfriend Tiffany York, 17.

On Monday, Michael Burnett pleaded guilty to manslaughter and gang charges, telling the court that Roark knew of the militia group's plans and had been killed because he was "a loose end". Private Aguigui, identified as the founder and leader of Fear, is accused of using a $500,000 (£316,000) insurance payout from the death of his pregnant wife a year ago to buy weapons and land for the group.

His fellow soldier Private Burnett told the court that Mr Aguigui had introduced him to "the manuscript", which he described as "a book about true patriots".

The militia aimed "to give the government back to the people", he said. Prosecutors also said that they do not know how many members the group has, but recruits have distinctive tattoos of anarchist-type symbols.

>>>>>>> If militia groups did start killing... Would the National Guard be able to cope?

on a Blizzard site while reading about the company blocking Iran from their servers.. The Iranians aren't mad about this, as they can always (if dedicated) play via proxy's....

"I said, making a bomb, not dropping it. They'll have to drop it over my corpse. I'm saying this because I'm not afraid of them, if they go as much as giving me a phone call to intimidate me it'll mean that they intend to make a bomb let alone put me to jail or anything else. The People of Iran won't tolerate even a single nuclear warhead, even if it's meant for "defensive purposes", indiscriminate genocide of all living things is not in any way a justifiable act of defence according to us. People are divided over everything now. That's how smart they are playing their game. It shows how afraid they are of people becoming united, they should think very carefully before even considering making a nuke, over that, people will become united.
This is basically where you guys with your allies come in the picture, you should hold tight watch their every movement your govs have enough power to apply enough pressure and monitoring to find out when that is going to happen if ever, we are here watching everything carefully, debating everything. It won't be long before people find a common ground."

Eating shrooms or just the strange world of unconscious conscious dreams?

rod03801: No.. that was bad accounting and tax collection by Greece. It didn't help that half the country is owned by the church.

"I don't get why this isn't logical to libs and the silly "occupy whatevers""

It's called fraud and tax evasion making regular folk annoyed. If you committed fraud.. you'd be in court. If you didn't pay your taxes you'd be audited (right phrase?)

It's not about small or big government.. efficient government is what we all need. But we need the private sector to stop taking the mickey.

... The law is equal isn't it?

The Col: I've seen the reports on the increase in fringe groups. It's not good reading. There are potentially more 'terrorists' active in the US then Al Qaeda ever had. N' with the NRA's wonderful lobbying on gun control (or the lack of it) .. more well armed.

The batman killer ordered 1000's of rounds online.... ON-LINE.

If Obama wins... ouch.

The Col: The coalition at the moment has seen the Liberal party in power for the first time in decades. But, in having to compromise with the Conservatives they have lost many voters. It was the one major party that has remained relatively clean regarding recent MP scandals. But supporters are not happy over being in bed with 'the devil'. It wouldn't have made much difference if they had sided with Labour as they have lost confidence within the voter pool.

Certain smaller parties have started getting support, but we are lucky that they are mainly moderates. Such as our extreme factions (eg BNP) will never get hold. We associate them too much with the Nazi's, and we as a nation would never support such fanatics. Especially with the likes of the National Front still well remembered.

"I can understand the awkward juggling act the Republicans are attempting to a certain degree.With population trends as they are, they will be unelectable in another 10 years or less, so they are trying to cater to both the loony tunes fringe and the center just to survive."

For how long? Those in the Republican party must realise that unless they cannot stop the inevitable change in population demographics. The fringe is going to get smaller and smaller as people become more well informed and get bored with the constant "they are evil/of the devil" lines. Same with the far left in the USA.

I think they should hold special games where both fringes get to fight it out in sumo suits.. It'd get more viewers then WWE/WWF/WCW/etc purely based on the comedy aspect.

The Col: Same with "New Labour".. It's moved itself away somewhat from it's union roots in order to be acceptable by the business class.

US Republicans are to open their national convention as they prepare to formally nominate Mitt Romney as Barack Obama's White House challenger.

But Monday's events in Tampa, Florida have all been cancelled amid concern over the path of Tropical Storm Isaac. The storm will miss Tampa, but is set to hit the Gulf coast while the rejigged convention is in full swing.

Concern remains that the storm could overshadow key speeches by Mr Romney and running mate Paul Ryan.

The highly organised convention had been meticulously planned to highlight the personal story of Mr Romney, a former business star and governor of Massachusetts.

But Monday's events will be limited to a symbolic opening and an immediate adjournment, with the evening agenda compressed on the following three nights.

Mr Ryan, a Wisconsin congressman known for his work on Republican budget plans, will face by far his biggest national exposure when he takes to the stage on Wednesday night.

But he could make his speech against a backdrop of images of high winds and storm surges lashing the Gulf coast virtually seven years to the day since Hurricane Katrina devastated New Orleans.

"ooo ooo I'll post two comments about Obama for every one you post about Mitt"...

ooooooo I am so in demand!!

The Col: He did good when it came to the arms limitations initiative. Some things looking at his foreign policies he was pretty good. Others.. iffy.

Samsung has sent a memo to staff in the wake of losing a court battle with Apple hitting out at what it calls abuse of patent law.

On Friday, a US court ordered Samsung to pay $1.05bn (£665m) in damages to Apple for infringing its patents. Shares in Samsung fell 7% in Seoul in Monday trading, their biggest one-day fall in seven years, as a result. Samsung said there had yet to be a company that had succeeded by relying on the "outright abuse of patent law". The case is one of the most significant rulings in a global intellectual property battle.

Samsung said it would be appealing against the verdict.

Seems the courts do think you can have new ideas, or as they tend to label it... intellectual property.
But what do judges know... they are only human.

Republican presidential
candidate Mitt Romney has accused his rival President Barack Obama of
running a campaign built on "anger and divisiveness".

Mr Romney said the Democratic campaign had hit a "new low" by
trying to link him to controversial views on rape recently voiced by
another Republican.

"anger and divisiveness".... Sounds like some people here!!

The Col: Nixon who lied and cheated.... who missed being tried while being President by resignation is better than Romney.

...Interesting thought!!

It's like those who's argument regarding the OT eViL God bits is "I only read the NT and go by the teaching of Jesus"

Ok I say... Then you've just given up Genesis, and everything that supports Jesus is "Messiah".

Which is true.

The Col: There are always those who will 'adopt' a religion just to justify their own hates. N' certain bible passages do go on about how the righteous sin, and through ideology the 'good' become 'bad'.

I know one question that stumps every faith...

What religion is God?

And they say .. he has none.

Well, if he doesn't and we are made in his image. .... I am therefore I think.. some would say.