The Col: Because too many people are 'buying' into Obama's birth in more ways than one. The one's who would believe anything, and those who'd sell anything to make a dollar.

If they went to the CIA or other agencies, those who'd sell anything would be out of business.

The Col: It'd be a bigger cover up than the Manhattan Project.

The Col: I sure he was checked out as soon as he entered into public office. I'm even more sure that the Republican party checked him out before he became Pres to see if there was any dirt that they could use on him.

Being non American born would be high on their list, and yet nothing on that subject pre or post election.

...Some people still think the apollo missions were a fraud.... Yet, a certain mirror says nooooo.

The US has begun a project to help clean up Agent Orange contamination at one area in Vietnam - the first such move since the war ended in 1975.

The work is taking place at the airport in the central city of Danang.

The US sprayed millions of gallons of the toxic defoliant over jungle areas to destroy enemy cover.

Vietnam says several million people have been affected by Agent Orange, including 150,000 children born with severe birth defects.
'Injustice'

Agent Orange Victims Association Vice Chairman Tran Xuan Thu told the BBC that although the clean-up activities were "a little late", they were "greatly appreciated".

"They show that the US government now is taking the responsibility to assist us. I hope these efforts will be multiplied in future," he said.

"However we consider that the clean-up is separate from the issue of compensating Vietnamese Agent Orange victims, who are still suffering from injustice. These victims will carry on with their lawsuits, no matter what."

MissDelish: That's what I said. Can't be that silly if you are agreeing with it.

According to the history based on documents released to the National Security Archive and reflected in the book Mohammad Mosaddeq and the 1953 Coup in Iran, edited by Mark J. Gasiorowski and Malcolm Byrne, the coup caused long-lasting damage to the U.S. reputation.

"The '28 Mordad' coup, as it is known by its Persian date, was a watershed for Iran, for the Middle East and for the standing of the United States in the region. The joint U.S.-British operation ended Iran's drive to assert sovereign control over its own resources and helped put an end to a vibrant chapter in the history of the country's nationalist and democratic movements. These consequences resonated with dramatic effect in later years. When the Shah finally fell in 1979, memories of the U.S. intervention in 1953, which made possible the monarch's subsequent, and increasingly unpopular, 25-year reign intensified the anti-American character of the revolution in the minds of many Iranians."[102]

The authoritarian monarch installed in the coup appreciated the coup, Kermit Roosevelt wrote in his account of the affair. "'I owe my throne to God, my people, my army and to you!' By 'you' he [the shah] meant me and the two countries—Great Britain and the United States—I was representing. We were all heroes."[103]

On 16 June 2000, The New York Times published the secret CIA report, "Clandestine Service History, Overthrow Of Premier Mossadeq Of Iran, November 1952 – August 1953," partly explaining the coup from CIA agent Wilber's perspective. In a related story, The New York Times reporter James Risen penned a story revealing that Wilber's report, hidden for nearly five decades, had recently come to light.

In the summer of 2001, Ervand Abrahamian wrote in the journal Science & Society that Wilber's version of the coup was missing key information some of which was available elsewhere.

The New York Times recently leaked a CIA report on the 1953 American-British overthrow of Mosaddeq, Iran's Prime Minister. It billed the report as a secret history of the secret coup, and treated it as an invaluable substitute for the U.S. files that remain inaccessible. But a reconstruction of the coup from other sources, especially from the archives of the British Foreign Office, indicates that this report is highly sanitized. It glosses over such sensitive issues as the crucial participation of the U.S. ambassador in the actual overthrow; the role of U.S. military advisers; the harnessing of local Nazis and Muslim terrorists; and the use of assassinations to destabilize the government. What is more, it places the coup in the context of the Cold War rather than that of the Anglo-Iranian oil crisis—a classic case of nationalism clashing with imperialism in the Third World. [104]

In a review of Tim Weiner's Legacy of Ashes, historian Michael Beschloss wrote, "Mr. Weiner argues that a bad C.I.A. track record has encouraged many of our gravest contemporary problems... A generation of Iranians grew up knowing that the C.I.A. had installed the shah," Mr. Weiner notes. "In time, the chaos that the agency had created in the streets of Tehran would return to haunt the United States."[105]

The administration of Dwight D. Eisenhower considered the coup a success, but, given its blowback, that opinion is no longer generally held, because of its "haunting and terrible legacy".[106] In 2000, Madeleine Albright, U.S. Secretary of State, said that intervention by the U.S. in the internal affairs of Iran was a setback for democratic government.[107][108] The coup d'état was "a critical event in post-war world history" that destroyed Iran's secular parliamentary democracy, by re-installing the monarchy of the Shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, as an authoritarian ruler.[109] The coup is widely believed to have significantly contributed to the 1979 Iranian Revolution, which deposed the pro-Western Shah and replaced the monarchy with an anti-Western Islamic Republic.[22]

"For many Iranians, the coup demonstrated duplicity by the United States, which presented itself as a defender of freedom but did not hesitate to use underhanded methods to overthrow a democratically elected government to suit its own economic and strategic interests", the Agence France-Presse reported.[110]

"The world has paid a heavy price for the lack of democracy in most of the Middle East. Operation Ajax taught tyrants and aspiring tyrants that the world's most powerful governments were willing to tolerate limitless oppression as long as oppressive regimes were friendly to the West and to Western oil companies. That helped tilt the political balance in a vast region away from freedom and toward dictatorship."[111] The United States initially considered the coup to be a triumph of Cold War covert action, but given its blowback, Kinzer wrote that it is difficult to imagine an outcome "that would have produced as much pain and horror over the next half century as that produced by Operation Ajax" had "American and British intelligence officers not meddled so shamelessly in (Iran"s) domestic affairs."[112]

>>>>> Reminds me of a little ditty....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKqCknCOllg

MissDelish: Never be for pawns... to much risk of certain members going MAD with multinicks being used to cause confusion, or to just 'grab' more attention to themselves.

hares of Standard Chartered have tumbled despite the bank denying allegations that it illegally "schemed" with Iran to launder money.

Shares in London fell 16.7%, about as much as its Hong Kong stock dropped.

The New York State Department of Financial Services said the UK-based bank laundered as much as $250bn (£161bn) over nearly a decade. It said the bank hid transactions for "Iranian financial institutions" that were subject to US economic sanctions.

The regulator said that Standard Chartered had hidden 60,000 such secret transactions. However, the bank denied the allegations, saying that it "strongly rejects the position or portrayal of facts as set out in the order" issued by the regulator....

......The regulator said that its nine-month investigation, which involved looking through more than 30,000 pages of documents, including internal bank emails, showed that the bank reaped "hundreds of millions of dollars in fees".

"SCB's actions left the US financial system vulnerable to terrorists, weapons dealers, drug kingpins and corrupt regimes, and deprived law enforcement investigators of crucial information used to track all manner of criminal activity," it said....

>>>>>>>>>>>> Has anyone got a way of lacing the bankers champers with laxatives??

Vikings: We don't tend to have many killers in the UK. A mate of mine last year dealt (he's a store manager) with someone who walked in and the tried to walk out with a crate of beer... He ran after him, gave him a bit of a slapping (UK term) and left it at that.He sent a message to anyone else who was thinking of theiving from his store that you won't get away with it.

The store has not been hit since.

Vikings: It would in the UK. Like the time when a granny frightened off a gang of jewel thieves with just her voice and handbag.

US authorities have said they are investigating reports that a gunman who killed six people at a Sikh temple in Wisconsin had white supremacist links.

Wade Michael Page, 40, who was gunned down by police during Sunday's attack near Milwaukee, reportedly performed in a far-right music group. President Barack Obama said on Monday "soul searching" was needed about how to reduce violence in the US.

The FBI is treating the attack as a possible domestic terrorism case. American Sikhs have reported being targeted since the 9/11 attacks, because they are mistaken for Muslims as a result of wearing turbans and beards.

Police chief John Edwards told a Monday morning news conference they were confident Page was the only shooter.

The gunman opened fire at the Sikh Temple of Wisconsin in Oak Creek as dozens of people were preparing for a service on Sunday morning. Five men and a woman aged between 39 and 84 died. Four people were found dead inside the building, and two outside....

....The gunman also fired at a police car and ignored orders to drop his weapon, before he was shot dead outside by police, said the authorities.

Page used a 9mm semi-automatic pistol, which was recovered at the scene and had been bought legally, authorities said.

A civil rights group, the Southern Poverty Law Center, has described Page as a "frustrated neo-Nazi".

>>>> A Joker and now a neo nazi... when are the gun laws in the USA going to get responsible, to which the nutters in the USA are screened out before they get the chance to buy thousands of rounds of ammunition online in one hit and kill people? Is it so against the 'constitution' that mentally unstable people are restricted from owning guns? Can't they just have one like in the old days???

The Col: ... Hopefully to defrost and analysis the residue!!

The Col: I bet their sweepers get extra for all the refined metals they find. Maybe we can hire them to sweep Earth's orbit of all the ... ... residue

In the next few hours Nasa will attempt to land its one-tonne Curiosity rover on the Red Planet to study the possibility that this world may once have hosted microbial life.

The vehicle is packed with scientific instruments, including a laser that can zap rocks to determine their make-up. Curiosity is currently hurtling through space, close to the end of a 570 million km journey from Earth.

Engineers describe its trajectory as near-perfect and they have passed up the last two opportunities to make course corrections. The rover, tucked inside a protective shell, is due to begin its descent to the surface at 05:24 GMT, Monday (06:24 BST; 22:24 PDT, Sun).

A signal confirming it has landed inside a deep depression known as Gale Crater is expected on Earth about seven minutes later, at 05:31 GMT.

But getting this audacious exploration project safely down will be a colossal challenge. Two-thirds of all missions sent to the Red Planet have failed, a good many lost on entry into the thin but unforgiving Martian atmosphere.

>>>>>>>fingers crossed!!

Subject: Re:Liberals love to attack the person rather than focus on their ideas.

Are you being a hypocrite Daniel?

MissDelish: Best sentence all night!!

Artful Dodger: I'm sorry, but we've been through this with your buddy. I don't have to do anything if I choose not to.

The moderators say so

I'd rather spend the time on Diablo 3

Subject: Re:Liberals love to attack the person rather than focus on their ideas.

ified by (V) (5. August 2012, 18:08:14)
Artful Dodger: You and your buddy do enough of that.. If liberals "love to attack the person rather than focus on their ideas" .. then you and your buddy must find it... orgasmic.

Politics (Artful Dodger, 2012-08-05 18:15:40)

[Artful Dodger, United States, Brain Rook (forever), Male] Artful Dodger (hide)
show this user posts | show thread | link
Subject: Note to everyone
Please note how Jules will now try to refute Descartes even though he's quoted him in the past. It never ends.

Pettifog much? Obfuscate?



Next, Jules will try to teach God a lesson too.
Reply (box)

Artful Dodger: pettifogging.

Artful Dodger: No Dan.. you are not. You've taken a philosophical look at ideas and thinking and taken it out of context.

Artful Dodger: Descartes has said that there exists no idea that can be completely original and new. His stated reason is that any "new" idea is simply a recombination of previous ideas. This has been my argument. And you should know that even the Bible says that there is nothing new under the sun.

Again Jules, look up the word original. Then argue against Descartes and God.
Reply (box)

Artful Dodger: Yeah, yeah, yeah.... I said as such earlier about Jesus.

So? We pick and nit pick everything... and end up nowhere!! 3*

Artful Dodger: Sorry I spoiled your misquote YET AGAIN

in his earlier works Descartes was inclined also to refer to various images in the brain as ideas.[13] And though he abandons this use in his later work, that's not so much a change of view as a clarification. Continuing definition (3) above, he writes:

… [I]t is not only the images depicted in the imagination which I call ‘ideas.’ Indeed, in so far as these images are in the corporeal imagination, that is, are depicted in some part of the brain, I do not call them ‘ideas’ at all; I call them ‘ideas’ only in so far as they give form to [informant] the mind itself, when it is directed towards that part of the brain. (2nd Replies, II.113, AT VII.160-1)

[I]n no case are the ideas of things presented to us by the senses just as we form them in our thinking. So much so that there is nothing in our ideas which is not innate to the mind or the faculty of thinking …. Nothing reaches our mind from external objects through the sense organs except certain corporeal motions … But neither the motions themselves nor the figures arising from them are conceived by us exactly as they occur in the sense organs … Hence it follows that the very ideas of the motions themselves and of the figures are innate in us. The ideas of pain, colours, sounds, and the like must be all the more innate … for there is no similarity between these ideas and the corporeal motions [which cause their production]. (Comments, I.304, AT VIIIB.358-9)

Consequently these ideas, along with that faculty [of thinking], are innate in us, i.e. they always exist within us potentially, for to exist in some faculty is not to exist actually, but merely potentially … (Comments I.305, AT VIIIA.360)

In so far as the ideas are <considered> simply <as> modes of thought, there is no recognizable inequality among them … But in so far as different ideas <are considered as images which> represent different things, it is clear that they differ widely. (3rd Med., II.27-28, AT VII.40; cf. Principles I.17, I.198-9, AT VIIIA.11)

When M. Arnauld says ‘if cold is merely an absence, there cannot be an idea of cold which represents it as a positive thing,’ it is clear that he is dealing solely with an idea taken in the formal sense. Since ideas are forms of a kind, and are not composed of any matter, when we think of them as representing something we are taking them not materially but formally. If, however, we were considering them not as representing this or that, but simply as operations of the intellect, then it could be said that we were taking them materially, but in that case they would have no reference to the truth or falsity of their objects. (4th Replies, II.162-3, AT VII.232)

[T]here is an ambiguity here in the word ‘idea.’ ‘Idea’ can be taken materially, as an operation of the intellect, in which case it cannot be said to be more perfect than me. Alternatively, it can be taken objectively, as the thing represented by that operation; and this thing, even if it is not regarded as existing outside the intellect, can still, in virtue of its essence, be more perfect than myself. (Preface to Med., II.7, AT VII.8)

....... I think therefore I am... or I am therefore I think??

I mean... statements like "you liberals" isn't an original thought.

Artful Dodger: I understand original.... I understand Descartes.. so?

By this thought then.. even Jesus was nothing new.... I think it's said he went over to India and studied there for twelve years anyway.

So?

And you know I wasn't saying I'm Jesus. I wouldn't want to be now even if I was... with some of the idiots out there 'working' in my name.... I'd be embarrassed!!

Artful Dodger: You and your buddy do enough of that.. If liberals "love to attack the person rather than focus on their ideas" .. then you and your buddy must find it... orgasmic.

I'd say the A-bomb is an old invention, the universe has been using such for billions of years.. at least this one has, rules as such might be different in another universe, so such laws are not (as theory goes now) multiversal.

The post it, might have been around in terms of a piece of paper and tape, yet no-one thought of putting the two together and using a glue that is very low tack.

"NOTHING in your post supports your assertion that the post it or the rubic represents an original thought."

I expect if Jesus himself said it was you'd still disagree.

"A Post-it note (or Sticky Note) is a piece of stationery with a re-adherable strip of adhesive on the back, designed for temporarily attaching notes to documents and other surfaces. Although now available in a wide range of colors, shapes, and sizes, Post-it notes are most commonly a 3-inch (76 mm) square, canary yellow in color. A unique low-tack adhesive allows the notes to be easily attached and removed without leaving marks or residue.

Post-it notes were invented by 3M's Art Fry, using an adhesive developed by a colleague, Spencer Silver. Until the 1990s, when the patent expired, they were produced only in the 3M plant in Cynthiana, Kentucky."

Although it is widely reported that the Cube was built as a teaching tool to help his students understand 3D objects, his actual purpose was solving the structural problem of moving the parts independently without the entire mechanism falling apart. He did not realize that he had created a puzzle until the first time he scrambled his new Cube and then tried to restore it.[13] Rubik obtained Hungarian patent HU170062 for his "Magic Cube" in 1975. Rubik's Cube was first called the Magic Cube (Bűvös kocka) in Hungary. The puzzle had not been patented internationally within a year of the original patent. Patent law then prevented the possibility of an international patent. Ideal wanted at least a recognizable name to trademark; of course, that arrangement put Rubik in the spotlight because the Magic Cube was renamed after its inventor in 1980.


The Patent says new invention

The Col: The only influence directly the UK's clergy has, is in the House of Lords. These are Bishops, but they only account for 3% of the members of that chamber. N' they are of course from the Church of England, our national faith as set up by King Henry VIII so he could get divorced.

We do have extreme right wing Christians, but they do tend to be based on imported evangelical ministries via the USA, or USA taught African churches. Yet the same laws that have worked on the Extreme Muslim Clerics apply to them.

Our MP's and Lords (other than the Bishops) would never use the Bible as a means to get votes, the British public just wouldn't wear it. We know full well from history (as it is taught in school) what extreme Christianity can do. We had Cromwell and the likes of James I ... Even Queen Mary found that once the CoE was formed she could not turn the country back to Catholicism and gave up.

Religions are kept to being of spirituality, their proper place.

The Col: That has and is alot of it, the legal side. The right to the same rules on taxation and inheritance as a couple.

Being treated as equals.

The Col: My only problem with the anti gay marriage lot is the wrongful interpretation of alot of the passages. As far as I remember being gay (as in man gay) is not against God, the act is.. but I wonder how much of that is regarding rape, and the sin of ejaculation outside the vagina. Female to Female acts are not forbidden which hints it's more about wasting sperm, which at the time was considered what makes biological life solely.. Temple sex was forbidden by God in the OT.

It's a strange lot..

Other than that.. Both sides have a right to an opinion, but Politicians using it as a baby kissing opportunity.

Cathy, a devout Southern Baptist whose family has always been outspoken about its faith, sparked the controversy by telling the Baptist Press that he and his family-owned restaurant chain are "guilty as charged" for openly _ and financially _ supporting groups that advocate for "the biblical definition of a family unit." He later added that the United States is "inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at him and say, `We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage."

For Marci Alt, organizer of a protest Friday at a Chick-fil-A in the relatively liberal Atlanta suburb of Decatur, it's Cathy's financial backing of conservative groups such as the Family Research Council that takes the conversation beyond merely what he said.

"Dan Cathy has the same First Amendment rights that I do. If he doesn't want to agree with same-sex marriage, I understand that," she said.

"But when he puts a pen to paper and writes a check to an organization that is about to squash my equal rights, I have a problem with that."

<<<<<from the independent>>>>>>

Step forward, Chick Fil-A: a fast food chain with more than 1,600 branches across America, and roots firmly in the evangelical conservative camp. Stores don't open on Sundays, and the firm has a history of supporting anti-gay efforts, according to the lobby group Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation (GLAAD). They claim the company has backed groups that say being gay should be recriminalised, and others that support 'ex-gay' therapy.

But it was an interview by CEO Dan Cathy, in the Baptist Press, that has turned Chick Fil-A into a conservative cause celebre: especially the bit where he publicly affirmed his traditional views on marriage. Chick Fil-A, he said, was "very much supportive of the family - the biblical definition of the family unit".

Liberals demanded a boycott, backed by celebrities including Mia Farrow and Roseanne Barr, while some city mayors even tried to ban the chain from their district. Washington DC mayor Vincent Gray denounced what he called "hate chicken", while Chicago mayor Rahm Emanuel declared the chain's values "are not Chicago values"......

......And naturally, when there's a conservative cause to bang a drum for, Sarah Palin was next on the scene, posting a photograph of herself and Todd on her Facebook page, clutching a bag of fried chicken.

While brand approval for Chick Fil-A was dropping through the floor, Palin told Fox News that the backlash was having "a chilling effect on our First Amendment rights [to free speech]".

The chicken chain isn't the first to plunge headlong into poltical controversy, although experts have warned it's rarely good for business.

Retail giant Target became a target itself back in 2010, when organisations including MoveOn.org launched pickets and protests over the firm's decision to donate $150,000 to a Republican candidate in Minnesota who had a history of opposing gay rights.

Weeks of public pressure soon got shareholders worried; democracy, said activists, was not for sale......

....As huge queues snaked around the block outside branches of Chick Fil-A, police were even called in to keep order in Madison, Alabama. Another former Presidential hopeful, Rick Santorum, picked up lunch: "OK leftists go crazy", he posted on Twitter.

As Talking Points Memo reports, it all sparked something of a media frenzy, as cable news networks sent news choppers into the sky to report the drama as it happened. Yes folks, it's August: something of a slow news month.

Yet the fact remains that a fast food chain managed to draw the kind of crowds that most politicians can only dream of.

Gay rights groups are fighting back - calling on same-sex couples to photograph themselves kissing in a Chick Fil-A branch, in protest.

In this game of chicken, who will give in first? : thousands of people may have expressed their support for Dan Cathy's firm this week, but experience shows when corporations get involved in political controversy, it rarely ends well.

Fried food, with a super-sized side of politics: it's enough to give you indigestion.

mckinley: So did Mr Rubik's

Artful Dodger: It's called extrapolation of the human element, remembering history.

"Is there really such a thing as an "original" thought? If you think you've had one, share it with us so I can show you that your "original" thought is really and old idea."

You said to The Col, and as such the East India Company is an example of what is happening now or back then in Iraq is not an original thought.

"That is what not finding huge quantities of WMDs were and are: a small issue. The issue of what to do about Saddam and Iraq was much larger than a single thing."

......."""Britain's most senior military officer at the time of the invasion of Iraq told the Chilcot inquiry he repeatedly asked Tony Blair for an assurance that the war would be lawful and was emphatically assured the aim was never "regime change".

In striking contrast to previous evidence about the former prime minister's war aims, Admiral Lord Boyce said : "Our policy absolutely and specifically was not regime change".

Blair's closest advisers, including Sir David Manning have told the inquiry that the former prime minister assured President George Bush he was willing to undertake regime change. Lord Turnbull, cabinet secretary at the time, described Blair as a "regime changer".

Boyce made clear he was deeply concerned about the legality of an invasion. Lord Goldsmith had warned more than once that regime change was "not a legal basis for military action"."""

We could talk about how at the time before and just after the Iraq war, it was all about WMD'S. Only once the probability of finding any has literately vanished did the Bush and Blair spin doctors say regime change was why the UK and USA had to goto war.

About the only problem of stability was that Iran might invade Iraq, it was shown that Saddam did not want Iran to know his military might was as effective as trying to fill a crack in a dam with pollyfilla.

It's plain, it's simple.. no need for debate.

Artful Dodger: Yes.. HAD, we all know Uncle Sam gave him WMD's ability. Just as many people know IF Kuwait hadn't been drilling underneath their border into Iraqi oil fields, then Saddam wouldn't have felt the need to invade them.

"With all his stonewalling of inspectors, it's little wonder that combined with the intelligence available, most concluded he was hiding something.!"

Most where? With millions here in the UK protesting and hearing on the news that the weapons inspectors saying Saddam hadn't any..

"It's you liberals who are the liars ..... It's you who can't be trusted. Cherry picking quotes from your Google search isn't solid evidence. Get it?"

So, you say. But seeing as you keep saying I'm a liar, I sense it's best I interpret such moans as you just being Richardy about being in the wrong.

Vikings: Millions less?? They got millions but less than Obama.

I guess they'll have to live with that Obama can get more millions then them, their off shore accounts will just have to fill less slowly!!

Artful Dodger: Deceptions, exaggerations and half truths..... as stated in various reports on the case, documents and evidence were "sexed up".

""Following the September 11 terrorist attacks on the US in 2001, Mr Carne said, the presentation of the intelligence relating to Iraq changed significantly.

The now notorious claim in the “dodgy dossier” of September 2002, which implied that Saddam had the capacity to launch WMD within 45 minutes, had “no basis in firm intelligence”.

"This process of exaggeration was gradual, and proceeded by accretion and editing from document to document, in a way that allowed those participating to convince themselves that they were not engaged in blatant dishonesty,” he said.

"But this process led to highly misleading statements about the UK assessment of the Iraqi threat that were, in their totality, lies." ""

Get IT

The Col: That wouldn't be a first!!

Artful Dodger: Not assertions.. fact as shown by various inquiries in the UK. It was claimed that Iraq could attack UK forces in "45 minutes" by Blair in Parliament as one of the major reasons we as a country should attack and invade Iraq. That WAS A LIE.

"You made an incoherent statement regarding my use of the idiom carbon copy."

To you... but my knowledge is different, and in reference to what Russell Brand said regarding "Role Models".

"You're not even being clever about it."

I didn't intended to be.

Artful Dodger:

"The truth:
Did liberals believe that Iraq had WMDs?
YES

No, not in this country.. stereotyping because of US 'liberal' (but not really that liberal generally) is bad.

"Did liberals give their approval to invade Iraq?
YES"

Only because those in decision placement were lied to, they didn't think that Bush and Blair would tell such BIG lies.

"Its informal use simply means: somebody or something that is identical to or very much like somebody or something else."

I extrapolated on the use of the words. I know such a concept is big, but... maybe you and your alter ego could discuss it?

Iamon lyme: "had been there"..... Yes of course there was, The supply of the materials by the USA to Iraq for the purposes of using WMD's on Iranian troops is well documented. So is the reports from the weapons inspectors who said Saddam had gotten rid of them.

"That fact was conveniently ignored" by you.

Iamon lyme: I said.. and I quote...

"Surely with the technology today regarding satellites, drones and other forms of spying and other 'intelligence' (I'm talking about actual intelligence, not the 'WMD' fiasco type) .....

... Those who can tell, can tell the difference between a nuclear power plant radiation signature and that of a weapon."

It is you who is over simplifying my statement, and not me over "how it's done".

??? If someone is a carbon copy... then they are a copy of someone's model?

Models aren't real, they are a man-made construct!!

mckinley: When a group of people get told from birth (original or 'born again' ) that certain scripture means 'X', n' that on pain of eternal damnation they must obey
............. manipulation of them is easy.

Frank Herbert's Dune 'reverend mothers' incarnate

Two Republican politicians have urged people to eat at a US fast food chain, amid a row over gay marriage.

Crowds flocked to outlets in several states after ex-presidential candidates Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee urged supporters of "traditional values" to eat at Chick-fil-A.

Boss Dan Cathy said in July he backed the "biblical definition of a family".

Mr Cathy also told the Baptist Press he thought those who supported gay marriage were "arrogant".

Chick-fil-A restaurants in cities across southern states of the US were reported to be bustling with customers who turned out in support of the chain.

The Houston Chronicle reported branches in Houston, Texas, were packed and another restaurant in Atlanta, Georgia, was said to be so busy two employees were needed to direct traffic in the car park.

Customers posted videos online expressing solidarity with Chick-fil-A, and social media sites including Twitter hummed with contributions to the discussion. One observer, Billy Hallowell, tweeted: "This country is so intriguing... and divided."

The effort on Wednesday was labelled "Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day", in response to criticism directed at the restaurant chain in the wake of Mr Cathy's comments.

"The goal is simple: let's affirm a business that operates on Christian principles and whose executives are willing to take a stand for the godly values we espouse by simply showing up and eating at Chick-fil-A," said Mr Huckabee, a Baptist minister and former governor of the state of Arkansas.

So what's the kick back to Rick Santorum and Mike Huckabee??