Czuch: Its all hypocritical left wing leaning media bias... the one that no liberal will admit

Czuch:  Biden isn't a good barometer simply because he speaks with his foot firmly planted in his mouth. 

Artful Dodger: Right...so it is okay for them to rush a multi trillion dollar stimulus package, and tell us how many jobs they were to save, and blah blah blah..... and now say they really didnt know what they were talking about, and it doesnt even matter to anyone????

Again if this were Bush, do you think it would be a non story????

Czuch:  If this were any Republican President it would be a different story.  But Obama is the darling of the press and inspite of the fact that he's running this country down the toilet, consider that those politicians who fully support Obama have been floating in that same toilet, waiting for someone to flush it. 

Artful Dodger: re:If this were any Republican President it would be a different story. But Obama is the darling of the press and inspite of the fact that he's running this country down the toilet, consider that those politicians who fully support Obama have been floating in that same toilet, waiting for someone to flush it.


It's good to know the moderator of this board shows such restraint

Jim Dandy: That post was addressed to Czuch and he likes it when I talk that way.

If it makes you feel any better I now think Bush was an idiot.

Artful Dodger: re:"If it makes you feel any better I now think Bush was an idiot."

If it makes you feel any better,I now think Obama doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to accomplish his mandate

Jim Dandy: Nor the needed experience. I don't like the progressive movement and find it a frightening prospect for the future of the US. But then maybe I watch too much Glen Beck.

Artful Dodger: Strange.. as they were the ones for some time you've been complaining about MP's expenses over here from within Parliament. While everyone else was fat catting from the tax payers money!!

Czuch: You forgot to mention...

"There is no short run other than keeping the economy from absolutely tanking. That's the only short run," Biden told me.
Biden said he has canvassed Republican and Democratic members of Congress about a second "big" and "bold" stimulus package . He said the Obama team is focused on creating jobs and spending on energy and information technology infrastructure.

"Every single person I've spoken to agrees with every major economist. There is going to be real significant investment, whether it's $600 billion or more, or $700 billion, the clear notion is, it's a number no one thought about a year ago," he said.

The future vice president said the struggling economy will be the number one priority for the Obama Administration next year. "

******************
I'm surprised as a republican, that it took you so long to pick up on this story as the interview was in December last year.

(V): Well, the interview I quoted from was from a couple of days ago..... and the point is, that we were rushed into this multi trillion dollar stimulus package on faulty intel, both about the state of the economy, and on how the stimulus would create some 3 million jobs.

The press was all over the Bush administration for crap like this, but why nothing now????

"Bams clan lied, the nasty slobs... now more people lost their jobs!"

Czuch: Was it?? The page I found the interview on was dated December 2008.

Unless, the interview you saw was just a repeat of another one he did last year?? Who knows!!

The guy is saying the economy is in worse state then at first thought, what is wrong with that? We've had the same over here by our Government. I would you'd like to focus on that your current admin is trying to cut the budget deficit. I would have thought you would like that idea!!

(V): Once again you miss my point... its not about what is specifically going on, its about the fact that expert intelligence isnt always as accurate as we would like it to be... that Obama pushed this package through in a big hurry, and was able to pull it off based in part on faulty expert intelligence!


Now, the real point for me, is the hypocrisy by the media and the liberals in general..... if this were Bush, we would be told how he lied to us to get what he wanted and he should be impeached blah blah blah

but now you say, "whats wrong with that?" well whats wrong is that we had this huge stimulus forced down our throats at record speeds, and now that it is a done deal, we are told that the info used to make this legislation was wrong, and since it is a president popular with liberals and the media, well, lets just say again, if it were Bush, you wouldnt be so easy on him, would you????

Czuch: No. He and other economic experts just not think things were as bad as they were. And come to think of it... neither did you.

(V): I never doubted how bad things are, my opinion is that its all part of a normal economic cycle (well normal for a free market economy, which would be different from normal under a socialist type of system)


He and other economic experts just not think things were as bad as they were

Well experts thought Saddam had not got rid of the WMDs , but then they found out he had... thats the point, get it yet? Experts think things all the time, and they are not always correct.... and most of the time we realize this and we move on.


But how do you know that these Obama economic experts really did know what the economy was like, and that they really had no hope of creating 3 million jobs like they said they would? But they lied to us just to get their big spending spree passed easier.... Thats what was said about Bush, right? That he lied and should be impeached, right?

Its about a point, how the media and the liberals in general think about things differently when it is Obama or Bush, not trying to say anything about the specifics, just pointing out a bias and hypocrisy, as I see it....

Czuch: No, as the real experts, aka those who were doing the inspecting said Saddam had no WMD's

There was no expert saying he had WMD, just some vague comment from one person so I believe and he was dubious.

And no, this is not part of a normal economic cycle. This was due to lack of regulation world wide of the banking system... I mean.. how else do you explain how someone is able to keep a $50 billion dollars scam going?

(V): There was no expert saying he had WMD, just some vague comment from one person so I believe and he was dubious.



I cant believe we are back here again?

The whole US Congress and most of its government sent us to war on intel he had WMD, and now you tell me there were no experts saying he had WMD? We all sent our troops based on one dubious persons report?

Now that is criminal!

Czuch: Yes, you did. so I believe.
One of your guys says...

"In an interview airing tonight on the PBS weekly newsmagazine NOW, Colin Powell's former Chief of Staff Lawrence Wilkerson makes the startling claim that much of Powell's landmark speech to the United Nations laying out the Bush Administration's case for the Iraq war was false.

"I participated in a hoax on the American people, the international community, and the United Nations Security Council," says Wilkerson, who helped prepare the address."

"Shortly after the invasion, the Central Intelligence Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency, and other intelligence agencies largely discredited evidence related to Iraqi weapons and, as well as links to Al Qaeda, and at this point the Bush and Blair Administrations began to shift to secondary rationales for the war, such as the Hussein government's human rights record and promoting democracy in Iraq.[6][7]"

"Critics such as Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean charged that the Bush and Blair administrations deliberately falsified evidence to build a case for war.[56] These criticisms were strengthened with the 2005 release of the so-called Downing Street Memo, written in July 2002, in which the former head of British Military Intelligence wrote that "the intelligence and facts were being fixed [by the US] around the policy" of removing Saddam Hussein from power.[57]

While the Downing Street Memo and the yellowcake uranium scandal lend credence to claims that intelligence was manipulated, two bipartisan investigations, one by the Senate Intelligence Committee and the other by a specially appointed Iraq Intelligence Commission chaired by Charles Robb and Laurence Silberman, found no direct evidence of political pressure applied to intelligence analysts.[58] An independent assessment by the Annenberg Public Policy Center found, however, that Bush Administration officials did misuse intelligence in their public communications. For example, Vice President Dick Cheney's September 2002 statement on Meet the Press that "we do know, with absolute certainty, that he (Saddam) is using his procurement system to acquire the equipment he needs in order to enrich uranium to build a nuclear weapon" was inconsistent with the views of the intelligence community at the time."

******

Enough to chew on?

(V): Critics such as Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean charged that the Bush and Blair administrations deliberately falsified evidence to build a case for war.[


Well, i contend that obama falsified the benefits of 3 million jobs to build a case for a multi trillion dollar spending spree fraud.....

To me government fraud is government fraud, but you would never know that based on the media perception of fraud!

Czuch: Not just Howard Dean...

Well if you contend, as certain Republicans use to say to me... prove it. Show me the economic data that backs up your claim.

(V): Prove what???

I started with the proof...

"No one realized how bad the economy was. The projections, in fact, turned out to be worse. But we took the mainstream model as to what we thought -- and everyone else thought -- the unemployment rate would be."

"Everyone guessed wrong at the time the estimate was made about what the state of the economy was at the moment this was passed."


This is what the Vice president said, he admits they were wrong, that the intel they presented to the US people before the huge stimulus was wrong!

So.. was it a lie when they told us they would create or save 3 million jobs??????

My point is that under Bush, it would have been a lie, and ask him to be impeached for it.... thats all.

Czuch: Are you sure Bush would have been impeached?? I think you are just over reacting.

"Funny, he never gave the UN any evidence that he ever destroyed the ones not use."

Actually plenty of inspectors went in and looked and saw nothing. The UN were as such satisfied (as far as I am aware of) that he had no WMD's.

Just I feel the US military machine and admin was after a victory, ya know.. the feel good factor.

But that does not change the fact that people in Bush's admin knew they were lying to the US and the world!!

(V): This was due to lack of regulation world wide of the banking system.


So why then the need for a multi trillion dollar stimulus, if some banking regulations were all that are needed?

Czuch: because the damage was done. It's like a patient at a hospital getting sicker through doctors mistakes... you can't leave the patient like that can you? To do so would be cruel and a break in the oath made to take care of the patient