Artful Dodger: He wasn't in the best of health, and the current cause is abdominal bleeding. They are now doing more tests to be precise over the exact reason why of the bleeding. But the policeman involved ... as I've said ... is being interviewed under caution of suspected manslaughter. He is suspended until further notice, ie the results from the tests.

(V):  Id say the guy was provoking the police by his actions.  And in a tense situation like G20, that was a stupid thing to do.  But police are supposed to show restraint.  Shoving a man to the ground was way out of line IMO.  Arrest him yes, but physically assault him?  The police officer lost his cool.   If in fact that action caused the man's death, then by definition of the law, that could be manslaughter. 

OTOH, why couldn't the police officer simply have ignore the man.  He was not a threat.  He was just moving slowly.   Eventually, even a turtle makes it across the street. 

Artful Dodger: What actions? Having his hands in his pockets and walking off home?

He did nothing wrong, but be in the line of a bad tempered police officer.. A bad apple is a bad apple.

(V): A bad apple is a bad apple.


How do you know he wasnt purposefully trying to slow his walk home just to be in the way and piss the police off a bit? How do you know he isnt a bad apple himself?

Czuch: I just replied to this.

(V):
What actions? Having his hands in his pockets and walking off home?


Yes, he was not complying with the officer.  He was being a jerk about it.  It was a tense situation and  he was playing a game.  So he's not entirely innocent.  But the officer still over reacted. 

Artful Dodger: he was not complying with the officer. He was being a jerk about it. It was a tense situation and he was playing a game. So he's not entirely innocent


Hey... want to join me in the elite CIA clairvoyant unit????

Czuch:I've seen that sort of shuffle in my students when they are acting defiant.  It's like saying, "I'll get there when I get there." 

The cop said, "Here, let me help you move a bit faster." 

Artful Dodger: No, he was on his way home. Again, you are not in full knowledge of the facts and jumping to a false conclusion. These were not regular police officers.

Maybe you should look up the SPG.

He was walking away and no breakage of the law by the man has been stated.

I'll give you 20 hours also.

Oh, btw.. there are two other cases of assualt by the 'SPG' being investigated.. one involving a back slap and a baton accross the little womans legs.. just for being mouthy over who they were being treated.

And that they denied protesters basic rights (water, food and the loo) is also being investigated.

The police are not above the law.. period. Thankfully those days are over... mostly.

(V): you are very knowledgable about something you knew nothing about LOL....



lordy your system is as bad as ours....2 independant persons and both forensic pathologists and two different results....one with the name Patel.....that puts you on guard immediately ROFL........

I read the story and he appears to have been a very sick man before this incident, not that that is an excuse for what happened of course.

you say they werent regular police officers and yet the story says they were Metropolitan Police Officers....and please clarify what is/are SPG....Ive googled and get all sorts of hotels, sarong party girls but nothing to do with what you are talking about....but google gives you your own countries bits....I cant get english information.

Bernice:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Patrol_Group

Pedro Martínez: thanks Hun :)....Metro Police and SPG appear to be one and the same - a group made up for special occasions.

Bernice: Sarong party girls... hahah i have been to Bali, and I know those types, I also remember many of them were actually boys.... strong hands and an Adams apple come to mind

Czuch: hahaha....there are many a man been caught up in the wiles of the extremely pretty party girls of Bali.....and adams apple is the dead giveaway really heheheheh

(V) might have some more information on them for you as well

Bernice:

Bernice: No Bernice, never been caught out by a trans gender, you might know someone who has being closer to the area, but I don't.

(V): I didnt say you were "caught out" as you put it, but there doesn't seem to be a subject that you cant enlighten us all on....

Bernice: ?? Ahhh right. sure??!!?? You just implied that I had experience of Bali 'ladyboys'... I just told you know I didn't... clearly.

Is that ok with you?

Bernice: The first was an initial post mortem, after the video evidence they did a second more detailed examination, and now they are doing an even more detailed examination of the body.

(V): So even worse then... this guy was operating like this with Special police types on patrol???

My grandmother also used to say... mess with fire and you might get burned.... but like the good ol suicide bomber, maybe it was worth the effort?

Czuch: Czuch.... do your research on the SPG.

And to clarify some info, the metropolitan police are not the SPG, they were a unit off the metro.. well known for being violent beyond what is needed, and as the jokes were of the day.. bigoted thugs, and that you could not join unless you were a bigoted thug.

(V): they were a unit off the metro.. well known for being violent beyond what is needed

Proves even more what an idiot this guy was...

Its like provoking the known local crazy drunk guy in a bar, he may not have any right to beat the crap out of you, but that isnt going to make it feel any better when he does it

Czuch: I'm sure the family have a different view from you. And I've still yet to see you provide that he did anything to provoke them.

4 hours left to find something to prove you are right Czuch.

Where is your evidence?

Czuch: I don't quite understand what's so funny about it.

Pedro Martínez: Neither do I, a guy died under suspicious circumstances.... That's not funny.

(V): You play with fire your gonna get burned... I dont blame the flame, the flame cant hurt you if you dont get close enough to it...

I personally would keep my distance from crazy riot police in a volatile area and situation...

I personally know big crazy drunks, who will slug you with a bat if you simply look at them wrong, or they think you did... I avoid any contact with these types at any cost, including not staying in a bar when they are there....

This guy had a look like "these guys cant mess with me, I am not doing anything wrong, who do they think they are trying to tell me what to do, I will show them whos boss of who", and now he is dead..... dead right maybe, but still dead


Like the guy from Saudi Arabia who just cant figure out how he ended up in Guantanamo prison after he entered a war zone in Iraq

Czuch: Proof being??? I'm still waiting.

about 3 hours left for you to find something, otherwise you are just (being blunt) waffling on.

(V): How many other people live and work in this area anyway??? How many other people got in a situation where they got shoved by riot police while innocently walking home from work??? Were all these other people just extremely lucky, or do you think that the average local person knew of the situation, and was able to avoid a situation like this?

bottom line... we have a personal responsibility for many of the situations we find ourselves in, weather it be building a house in a high fire danger area or living below sea level in a hurricane zone, or putting ourselves in close proximity to riot police in a volatile situation... play with fire and you might get burned.... right or wrong, this guy got himself burned

Artful Dodger: He was not a threat. He was just moving slowly. Eventually, even a turtle makes it across the street.


Like you said before, the whole area was tense with potential violence.... this guy was just one more thing to worry about, they had more important things to worry about this day, and he was an unnecessary distraction that they needed to get rid of... the longer he was in the way, the longer their attention was diverted from their main focus... now you take time and resources to arrest him for non compliance? That doesnt make sense either....


My guess is that they will find that this shove by police was not the cause of his death, it is more likely like V said, he has previous health issues that were more a contributing factor to his death, that along with his defiant non compliance with a police order to move quicker

Czuch: For someone who says he is for less government control, you sure do seem to want to give the police the power to be thugs.