BIG BAD WOLF
Speaking about newcomers or beginners:
An opponent of mine lost 6 points because he resigned a match with cube at 2. He would by all means NOT lose any gammon or backgammon and he would just lose 2 points. But instead of 4-2 the score went to 8-2!!!!
I don't know if you call this protection of the newcomers!
Also if you will say that he may not knew this and now he knows, he would resign hopeless positions ONLY after he bears off some checkers, i have to say that this would bring another already mentioned problem: Why to wait to bear off a checker to resign? A resign offer of a single game, would be much better and FAST way!

Pythagoras: LOL. I have the same response to maths as I do poetry and song lyrics - my eyes jump right to the end! I have to force them to go back in and engage. Gimme logic and prose!

.. So the equivalence of the 2 ways is obvious. The "problem" with the second is that we don't have immediatelly the several discrete cases, although the procedure of the second way is good for programming as we gain some time by not re-checking cases....

Grenv and I are both into programming. And I dare say we both like efficient code, too.

Pythagoras: Well the protection is that the system told him that he would lose 6 points if you accepted the resign, so that is already in place. (resigning right away without that second screen to tell them what they will lose would be unprotected.)

Oh in that case the current way protects newcomers or not enough knowledgeable people from losing points with the aforementioned way....
But of course this doesn't make the current system of resignations good. The system Playbunny described is far superior.....

BBW: It doesn't protect people who don't realise that they don't need to lose those 6 points. Just like Dailygammon doesn't protect those who don't realise that they don't need to accept only a single.

Yet, I'll say it again. The Dailygammon procedure is open to "abuse" by a subset of players, those who would take advantage of that ignorance. The procedure here always "takes advantage" of the player's ignorance. (And given that cubes and gammons are so new here and resignations in Backgammon have only had consequences for that game and not the match, that ignorance is rife!)

playBunny: I think you mean the former Dailygammon procedure?

alanback: I've never been to the former Dailygammon so I'm referring to the procedure that BBW was talking about.

playBunny: so...is this right?

Kipling: Link: http://brainking.com/en/ArchivedGame?g=1260088

Yes, tonyh resigned when he already had 1 piece off the board, meaning the value of the game is what is one the double cube (2 points)

BIG BAD WOLF: (my link works)
and there is nothing regarding resignation in the cube rules.
Thanks to everyone for clearing this up for me.

Kipling: Your link does not work for me - for some reason it is inserting an extra http://brainking.com/en/ before it - giving me an invalid link.

Pythagoras: You have to be kidding me? Math?

I have a math degree as it turns out, but this is a question of the english language.

If you have borne of many checkers it is also true that you have borne off a checker. If I ask "Has player x has borne off a checker?" the answer to that question doesn't switch to being "No" just because I bear off a second!!!

If you want to ask about one checker you have to use the word "one". i.e. "Have you borne off one checker?". This is probably ambiguous enough to warrant the word exactly being inserted.

The use of "Else" is simple to understand and needn't be complicated by the use of set theory in my opinion. In this case there is no intersection of sets, you can't be gammoned and backgammoned at the same time.

BIG BAD WOLF: if you use the edit button on my post...you'll see there is no http://

Kipling: Which is why the http://brainking.etc is inserted, making the url invalid.

grenv: you do need to be gammoned in order to be backgammoned.

frolind: is this new? Brainking navigation did not used to require the http://

grenv:
OK if you all English-language-people have learnt that the use of "a" makes the statement: "does he have a pencil?" the same with "does he have at least a pencil?" then i didn't know that or seen this before.....

But really it's a matter of definition again.
It is not obvious for me to define the:
"I have a pencil."
as:
"I have at least a pencil."
instead of the more logical:
"I have exactly one pencil."

Kipling: I don't know. Just did some experiencing now. But it's good to have if you want to put up a link to a brainking page without changing the visitors language, because the url also contains information about which language to display the site in. And the part of the url which is inserted will vary depending on the viewers language settings. But it will not work when you also write the start of the url (exluding the http part).

frolind: strange...it works for me.

Pythagoras:



Q: Do you have a pencil?
A: No, I've got three.

Q: Do you have a pencil?
A: Yes, I've got three. Which colour would you like?

It's like you said - open to interpretation.

playBunny:

BUT it's a yes/no question in the context you used it, therefore the answer is "yes". I don't think it's ambiguous (except maybe to a lawyer).

Also I've never heard anyone answer No, I have three or anything like that, unless they were trying to be funny.

playBunny: "a" is called the indefinite article for a reason -- "a pencil" is the opposite of "no pencil" and implies nothing at all as to number. Of course context is still important. In the context of pencils the essence of the question is whether one has the tools necessary to write something down; number is not significant. In some cases, the expectation is that there will be either exactly one or none of the specified item, and if more than one are present, a simple affirmative could be misleading. Thus, a bigamist, when asked "Do you have a wife?", should answer: "Yes, I have two."

If you want to elicit information about the number of pencils a person has, "Do you have a pencil?" is the wrong question. It would be better to ask: "How many pencils do you have?", "Do you have an extra pencil?", "May I borrow a pencil?" etc.

Since "a pencil" is the opposite of "no pencil" then "i want/have a pencil" = "i want/have at least a pencil".....

Odd to me, but you English speakers know better....

alanback: "may I borrow a pencil" implies that you want "one" pencil....

Czuch Chuckers: Oh no! Don't destroy me again! Please decide how are you using your own language....

Czuch Chuckers: It's indefinite, but in context it could mean a single thing.

grenv: In context it doesnt mean more than one pencil nor less than one pencil.

Czuch Chuckers: I disagree. If I ask you for a pencil, I have no objection to receiving two or more!

alanback: Its a question that only requires a yes or no answer. You could have no objection if I gave you no pencil as well. If you want or expect more than one you wouldnt ask for a pencil you would ask for a specifc amount.

If I have 10 pncils on my desk and you ask me if you may borrow a pencil and I reply yes you ma borrow a pencil, I will be surprised if you take more than one or less than one pencil from my desk top.

Czuch Chuckers: As you yourself said, it's indefinite; it doesn't imply "one" or more than one.

alanback: So what you said is not correct. That means "a pencil" is NOT the opposite of "no pencil".....
Now things are clear! Please not make it complicated again.....

Pythagoras: I don't see any inconsistency. "A pencil" means at least one pencil; and that's the farthest off topic I've been allowed to be in quite a while ;-)

It is because it's not off topic at all as we obviously discuss about Backgammon....

alanback: If want more than one or less than one pencil I will NOT say "may I borrow a pencil"

alanback: As you yourself said, it's indefinite; it doesn't imply "one" or more than one.

I think in that case since it is indefinite it implies the exact same thing you said it doesn't imply! Since it is indefinite(and obviously not zero) it means one exactly pencil, or 2 exactly pencils, or...., or an infinite number of pencils.

Czuch Chuckers: But you may still say "a pencil" if you are indifferent to the number of pencils you receive; that is, if you want at least one pencil. Of course, if one pencil will not do, you won't say "a pencil", you will specify the number that you need. "A pencil" is to be used only when you want exactly one, OR are indifferent to the number.

It all depends on the context. Sometimes 'a' can mean exactly one, for example, if I say, "You can join the backgammon league if you pay a membership fee" clearly 'a' means one, but if I say, "Have you ever lost a game of backgammon?" in this instance 'a' means one or more.

Pythagoras: Sometimes you don't want a specific number of pencils; you just want to be able to write something down. That's when you ask for "a pencil". Whether I give you one pencil or a box, you got what you wanted and what you asked for.

Thad: It all depends on the context
So there is no exact meaning of "i have a pencil".
And it should be used with words like "exactly" or "at least"....

Nice to discover another part of completely useless statements, as they are all the adjectives in English and also in Greek language too.....

alanback: You would never be indifferent to the amount of pencils that you want. You would never want less than one pencil if you asked for one. And if you wanted more than one pencil you would always be more specific than to ask to borrow a pencil.
Thad: "have you ever lost a game of backgammon?" is no different. If you want to know more specifically then you would always ask a more specific question.

Czuch Chuckers: I think it's rather arrogant for you to presume to tell me what I can or cannot be indifferent to. Moreover, the assertion is ridiculous on its face. Anyway, I'm bored with this discussion, and won't participate further.

I wish these pencils had an eraser!

Do you "Bear off" or do you "Bare off" in a game of Backgammon, cause I reckon some of you take life far to seriously. LOL

skipinnz: What do you have against bears?

alanback: Is that a Black , Brown or Sun Bear

Da Bears!!

skipinnz: That really has no bearing on the question.

alanback:Ball or Bawl

alanback: I can't bear to read much more of this. ;-)