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How about just taking away the "capture 2 pieces" function from Pente and changing the board colour?
That way we would have pro gomoku on a 19x19 board (which is just fine).
Dmitri and Kevin: IYT`s version of go-moku (13x13 board and 2nd player wins in case of a draw) are NOT real go-moku rules.
15x15 is the real size and a draw is a draw.
Having said that I must add that those changes do make the game better and even somewhat suitable for advanced players. They do that by taking away some of the 1st player`s advantage. Most importantly they make it impossible to use some of the sure win combinations.
But the 1st player`s advantage is still very big even with those rules.
PRO-gomoku has the same 2nd move restriction as Pente. That restriction evens up the game much more than those IYT rules. I remember Gary Barnes saying that in Pente (with the restriction) 1st player still wins in about 80% (?) of the games between good players. The similar is true with pro-gomoku. This is in great contrast to sure win (on a 15x15 board).
So that restriction is very important in go-moku too. Probably even more important than in Pente (I have never heard of Pente being a SURE win without the restriction (?) ).
So it really is pro-gomoku that we need to have here...and Fencer already has it on his TODO list.
Are you sure that this (playing only as white and not accepting challenges from good players) is so common that it needs to be done something about?
Or is it maybe only 1 or 2 players who do that?
None of the top10 (or lower) Five-in-line players has declined an invitation (2-game matches) from me so far. This was also true when I just started playing here and was still unrated.
And one thing: I think you have seen this problem with Pente which is a new game here and so the BKRs are based on relatively few games. As the number of played games increases the BKR becomes a much better indication of the players skill than after a few games only. For example, I`d imagine after 50 or so played games Dmitri will have a BKR in the neigbourhood of 2500 points AND can still keep on increasing it. A not-so-good player may be able to get a good rating in the beginning BUT is bound to lose a few games at some point AND can never climb back up. To do so he would have to play against good opponents, who probably wouldn`t agree to play only as black.
This is because after you have reached a high BKR getting points gets really difficult and you have to play good opponents to get ANY points at all. For example, if I win a Five-in-line game against an opponent who has BKR as good as 2100 my BKR increases with a whole 1 point.
Shortly: provisional BKRs are often misleading, when you get an established BKR it is already much more reliable and the more you play the better indication of your skill it gets.
Top10 (or so) tournaments might actually be a good idea, BUT to be REQUIRED to play in a certain tournament is not.
Yep, that would be a good idea.
But one thing would have to be changed first: currently if you play 2-game matches and play white in game 1, it says in your completed games that you played as white. Even though you actually played one as white and the other as black.
Kevin & Dave: You are talking about the go-moku version which is played at IYT (13x13 board and 2nd player winning when board fills up), not the "real" or "official" go-moku.
15x15 is the official board size and 2nd player doesn`t win in case of a draw.
MadMonkey & Fencer: Maybe I should answer that question, because I was the one requesting PRO go-moku in the first place.
Between the REGULAR go-moku and this site`s 5-in-line, the only difference is that in go-moku overline (more than 5 in-a-row) doesn`t win. That difference has not much effect to the game.
However, if the game in development is PRO gomoku the difference to 5-in-line is significant. In pro gomoku there are 2 restrictions to the white (starter):
1. The first move must be in the center of the board.
2. (much more significant than 1.) White`s second move must be outside the 5x5 square around the 1. move.
The 2nd move restriction takes away some of the white`s advantage and makes the game quite different.
The most important thing being that in pro gomoku there is not a sure win situation for the white in the beginning of the game, as is the case in regular gomoku (or 5-in-line) on a 15x15 board.
Not all but quite many of the advanced players prefer the pro version (some are actually waiting for it before they start playing here): it is an even more complex game. Important thing is also that in pro almost every game is unique, which is in contrast to regular version where the same moves are played over and over.
Fencer: When making that pro version of 5-in-line could you make it such that overline (more than 5 in a row) doesn`t win?
I think many players would like it better if the rules here were not different from the rules of Pro go-moku.
In addition to the pro version of 5-in-line that I requested earlier, a game I`d very much like to see here is Renju. IYT doesn`t have that game either and I think it would attract many top players here to play it and 5-in-line also...and top players always draw along many times more other players who want to play against them and learn the game.
Fencer: How about that pro version of 5-in-line (like IYT`s Pro Go-moku) ? I`m posting this request again just in case you didn`t notice it the first time.
Another thing: I posted a new game with a lower limit to the BKR of the opponent. The game was, however, picked up by someone with a significantly lower BKR than the limit was. Is there a problem with that feature?
Fencer: Nice site. But how about a "pro" version of 5-in-a-line which has a limitation to white`s second move. Check out IYT`s "Pro gomoku" to see what I mean. 15x15 board size would be perfect.
I know many top players who rather play the pro version than regular.
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