any individual player has faces long odds of winning the tournament, but someone has to win it!

I think I have a better chance of winning the Powerball Lotto than I do of winning that tournament. ;-)

Thad

Hey everyone, you may have heard about the 5th Pente tournament at Dweebo's stone games at www.pente.org, but there is a new twist. To liven things up a bit, I am putting up a 50 dollar cash prize for the winner of this tournament.

The same rule is in Go. Everyone points in rank are one stone for worse one. example white-10kyu black-4kyu - white get 6 additional stones.

In Japan the points (other then center) are show the place for handicup stones.
In ancient Japan during playing Ninuki (Pente) more stronger player gave handicup.
If you win three games in a Row , then you have play with this player only as second.
If then you also win three games in a row , he get possibility to put one more additional stone at the board but only in points specially marked at the board.
And so on till 4-5 stones handicup.
Each stone of handicup means the rank difference.
Alexander

but not foolish - that's why I've never claimed to be wise.

thad- i have never played at pente.net so i must take your word.

the board has markers 3 away like at .net, and dsg, they are there for opening move restriction, there is also a marker at 6 out, most likly from the origianl go boards...

very funny taurec, but so far you have not proved your wise at all : )

Sam,

Actually, IYT has markers six lines out on their 19 x 19 boards and only five lines from center on their 13 x 13 boards. Neither of these correspond to P1's move #2 restriction. Pente.net's markers are six and three lines from center on their boards and you can play with or without the restriction on either size board. BrainKing has no markers at all. I believe the way pente.net has their markers on the 19 x 19 board is the way they were originally done by inventor of Pente and by the various game board manufacturers through the years, but I'm not certain of that. Only DSG has the markers 3 lines out.

So now we've tripped over something interesting. Why are the markers traditionally placed where they are (and where exactly do they belong)? Anyone?

Thad

ask an asian why the outer marker are there, I'm busy.

G7, is the center if that helps you : )
as for the other markers, why should they be there? the markers are used for opening restriction games.... <lets first player know were they can play there second move>

Sam, I do not have a bigger problem. I like to play without the opening move restriction (not necessarily against everyone or all the time). Playing this way has been discussed to death here and at other places and I am not going to get into that again. There is no reason I can't play this way. The only version of Pente here without the opening restriction is played on a board without a center marker (and K10 is not the center square either). It would be better if there were one, (along with the other markers on all the boards). Do you disagree with that?

Thad

looks like you have a way bigger problem!

you play that 13x13 bs (small pente), and games were there is no opening move restriction in effect (open pente).
when will people learn 13x13 pente was IYTs invention, AND iyt WAS WRONG!

Well, see now, I did it again, it's not Small Pente, but Open Pente, which needs a center marker. And the reason that I posted here is that there is no Open Pente DB. ;-)

Thad

Ok, you are right, but it would still be nice to have the outer markers as well. The center spot is highlited in Pente at the start of the game. My real problem is in Small Pente, where it is not. I get confused by the different game variation names on different sites. I will make a post on that DB. ;-)

Thad

highlighting the whole board but the center - to get ahead? :D

Thad, the centre of the board is already highlighted :)

sam!! the complication had a complication. 0:)
but indeed Gary has made a couple of attempts
already. a few pages ago. stop by eventually. :p

I find it interesting players are caring more about the game board, draw buttons and other things that dont matter... <hell why is the board green????>

Everyone should be trying to think of a way to make the game more fair for black!

thad-
K10 is the center... make a sticky if you cant remmber
dont click or except draws...

Suggestion for improvement:

Traditionally, there is a dot at the center of the pente board. A dot is also placed at a few other places on the board. Any way we could get those here? I like to place my first stone in the center and that would be much easier with a mark. ;-)

Thad

no - arrangement isn't either. but you complaining about is deepgrey.

Oops, is that a dirty word?

you got a nerve I tl ya. :O

Ok, I was mainly interested in other people's opinions. That's why I made my previous post. My main concern is that the button could be abused in a tournament to allow players to artificially manipulate the standings and advnace when one of them shouldn't. I've seen this happen at IYT. But since we have the S-B tiebreak points, I'm assuming that couldn't happen here and that, even if it did, that Fencer or the tournament creator would fix the situation. :-)

Thanks,
Thad

PS: I put duct tape over mine. ;-)

there is little need for it in pente. the only time a draw should occur is when both players keep winning 1 game of a two game set, as can happen with two evenly matched players.

That said, taurec also makesa good point that it need not be used by those who do not like it. I would like to see it eliminated, but I won't care too much if it stays.

Scott tapes Scotch over the button. hehehe! inspires me:
couldn't the button change its position randomly? 0:)

right - the draw is not ecluded by the pente-rules.
therefore it should remain as option to end idle games.

This problem was already discussed several months ago. Although draw is really impossible in some games, the button will stay for all games because there can be more reasons to agree with a draw [for example, one player knows that he would lose due to a timeout and his opponents agrees with a draw to solve this situation by making both players happy].

removing the button is an inessential restriction to free players period.
what is so difficult to understand? free players with free decisions?

Daniel ~*~

1) I agree with Thad!

2) who is taurec? do you play under a different name at a different site? You are unrated at this site, I notice. Also, I don't understand what you mean by, "oppress your inessential restrictions to free players." That sentence doesn't really make sense to me.

-Scott

humbug!

you don't have to use it - please don't bother
to oppress your inessential restrictions to free players.

Does anyone out there share my feelings that there should not be an 'Offer Draw' button on any Pente game pages, since a draw is (virtually) impossible in Pente?

Fencer, would it be difficult to implement?

Of course a *tie* in a two-game match is quite possible (and often likely), but that's a different story. ;-)

Thad

Whichever...

P1 gets 2 points on a close game and P2 gets 1.

interesting touch but totally wrong.

turned around it might make sense though.

i.e. white gets only two points if black
cAn acchieve one of the game-goals next move ...

I mean Top players competitions like World Championship or Finals of the Tournaments, other competitions it is possible to use it or not , it is not important, because strong players can win against middle class players as second number, too. To use or not to use openning is choice of player, so it depends on his tacktick and we can not decide is it fair or not. There a lot of stupid opennings moves which just lose , why we will discuss is it fair or not to play it against your opponent ?
Regards Alexander

Ok. So you want to use this point system for use in scoring during tournaments. Not for anything else, correct? That might work. Perhaps a 'Offer 2-point loss' button (like an 'Offer Draw' button in chess) could be added to this site. That would help too.

But don't certain lines tend to lead to wins without the chance of P2 getting his 1 point, while others do not? For example, the wedge often ends 5-4 on pairs (at least when I play ;-) ), while the Boston opening usually does not, so even an expert P2 might not be able to get 1 point depending on which opening his opponent chooses. Is that fair? I'm not sure.

Thad

Thad
It is easy if you resign you got surely 0 points.
If you fight and you can make your own five just after your opponent you got 1 point.
And it will influence in the Tournament how you lose your (second games). Some players will lose it with O points , but some other can get 1 point instead zero.
So , if you can win with 3 points as Black and lose with 1 point as White it means that you are better then your opponent.
Regards Alexander

nosovs,

I like the idea of improving Pente, but I don't think any point system will work. How do you handle the situation when a player resigns? Or when a player 'knows' it's over and doesn't make all the available extensions or captures?

I think the only way to improve the rankings for Pente is to calculate two separate rankings, one for win/losses as player 1 and one for wins/losses as player 2. Of course, these scores could be combined in some way (added or averaged or whatever) to find one overall score, but I think this is the only way to create a score that acurately reflects a player's true ability.

Thad

I would like to suggest to discuss new Rule for Pente, I think it improve the game.
If you win as White (second player) you got 3 points.
If you win as Black (first Player) and your opponent can not make 5 next move or capture 5 capture you get also 3 points and your opponent got o points, but if you win and your opponet can do this , this case you got 2 points and your opponent got 1 point.
What do you think about this ?

I've recently begun to wonder about people who wait a LONG time to make a winning move. I have a game going where I've lost, if the other player would just make the final winning move. Instead they are waiting. I am now wondering if it is to see if my rating goes up, so that the calculation will be more in their favor (bringing their rating up even higher). Maybe not. But, I do know this: From now on, I will resign when I know I've lost....Instead of placing a peice off to the side like a lot of us do...

Has any one else experienced this sort of thing?

Sorry Satan (snutter).... i dont play in B class

all friendly smack talking aside, thanks for the reminder Samwise.

You're going down in the first round, punk. Man I hope I'm the one to take you out! It's going to be soooooooo easy.

Dsg, Dweebo's Stone Games (www.pente.org) is having its big online tourney (#5)

So if you think your good Prove it!!
Its real time so it really tests your skills, hope your all there!

P.S. join A section, thats for the good players!

Did anybody knows something about this 3 Good players??

Jayel 7. July 2003, 18:56:34 browsing main page
Andyhop 7. June 2003, 05:33:30 browsing main page
Flippin Maniac 6. June 2003, 08:24:01 logging out

Info pls to my message box
CaoZ

Thanks to everyone who joined the tourney. We've got a LOT of strong players playing, so it will be a lot of fun. Play well, everyone!

-Scott

I'll even make it easier on everyone. Click on my "Satan's Tourney" link here, and you will go directly to my tournament sign up page!!! No excuses now!

Satan's Tourney

Not everyone who was once signed up for my tournament has re-signed up... Come on guys. I know that server problem pissed everyone off, but let's get to it. I'd like to see a lot of people in the tourney. We've got some excellent players in it already. It's going to be cool! If you haven't already, please join in!!!

-Scott

Hello all pente players!

I've re-posted my tournament game since the last one was lost in the crash. I really hope that all of you who signed up before will sign up again. Let's not let a little thing like a site crash, and a bunch of data lost to stop us from getting back in to the swing of things.

I'll see you in the tourney!!! (I hope)

-Scott

Also the site www.playpente.com may help.

Pente/Renju Theory
Alexander Nosovsky's Pente Guide

Mark Mammel's Pente-Site