Jim Dandy: You've completely missed the point of the report I cited. Vikings is right. It had nothing to do with how the campaigns were run. BTW, this isn't the only time an independent study clearly showed that Fox stands above the rest when it comes to fair and balanced reporting.

Jim Dandy: I'm afraid that you don't understand the concept of positive vs. negative reporting. it has nothing to do with negative campaigning, for example, yesterday Obama said, and I am paraphrasing, that he wants to bankrupt the coal industry, a positive spin would be focus on the environmental impact of such a decision, a negative spin would be to report the effects on jobs ,oil and electrical prices, the economic and social impacts, another way for the drive by's to go would to simply not report it, which is a major reason as to how the negativity ratings are differed

Artful Dodger: We're not going to find agreement on this.If a campaign focuses on negativity you can't expect it to be reported otherwise,if it was it would be disingenuous reporting.I watch Fox all the time,O'Rielly and his ambush journalism is legendary,not to mention Hannity's mantra-like preaching of talking points.I will say this,you'd be very hard pressed to not get a snicker from any well respected journalist if you stated that either Fox or MSNBC are not extremely slanted either right or left.I also would avoid using rattings as a barometer of quaity,if it was how do you explain American Idol

Some of the best programming is on PBS,and their viewership numbers aren't going to win any awards

Tuesday: "It's over tomorrow!"

..... yea, that what they thought 4 years ago..... Lets hope it's over tomorrow.

Jim Dandy:  You are missing the point.  The study wasn't concerning how the media was reporting the negative or positive of the individual campaigns.   The study looked at how the media presented it's reports.  Of all the stories MSNBC ran about Obama, only 14 were negative.  But 73% were negative regarding McCain.  The independent report focused on the flavor of the reporting.  The question they answered had to do with the slant of the media coverage.  MSNBC slanted their coverage in favor of Obama and against McCain.  Some of those knuckleheads on MSNBC even dug into Joe the Plumber's past, his tax records, etc, just to discredit him.  That is NOT the job of a news organization.  They weren't reporting the news, they were making it. 

This report is quite comprehensive and you can read if for yourself online.  I'm citing facts from their report.  You're using hypotheticals and opinion.  The bottom line is this:  Fox news is recognized by the majority of American viewers as a higher quality news organization than any other, cable or network.  The  ratings show that.  People know they can depend on Fox to deliver information from all perspectives.  This election coverage has been a good example of their excellence.  You will routinely see Fox have equal representation from both parties and they give them equal time.  Looking at the Fox news program as a whole, it's easy to see that, just as this study I cite reflects, they are indeed fair and balanced.    OTOH, watching MSNBC would give the viewer a slanted view that favored Obama.  NBC is nearly as bad but MSNBC is by far the worse.   The data makes it clear and with all due respect, contrary opinions do nothing to change the facts. 

Artful Dodger: The "balance" is due to the fact it would be very difficult for Fox to ignore the very real fact that McCain has gone negative.Toss in a few Rev Wight audio loops,a smattering of Ayres,and the latest PLO associate,and you have balance.I don't think the othe networks are as likely to buy into these boogymen being tossed out as Fox is.I wonder,for instance,if Fox is reporting that McCain supported donating almost a half a million bucks to the PLO guy who is the latest Obama boogyman?

Fox and MSNBC are both in the tank for their respective candidates,toss them out of the equation and you'll have a better picture of reality

Pedro Martínez:  It wasn't a Fox report.  It was a report about the cable/network/print media and was put out by an independent source.  This report in particular, with regard to the election, validates Fox's claim to be fair and balanced.  That they are.  Which is  a good reason to watch them.  You do indeed get both sides.

BTW, Mother Theresa died in 97.   Joseph Goebbels is long dead too.  And neither were US citizens so they don't qualify to run for presidents.  

Artful Dodger: Would Fox insist on even percentages, on being "fair and balanced", if Mother Theresa and Joseph Goebbels were running for President?

Jim Dandy:  The point is that given the same set of facts to work with, Fox was exactly Fair and Balanced as advertised.  MSNBC was clearly showing its bias in favor of Obama. (73 to 14% is a HUGE difference) It's one thing to report "the facts."  It's another thing entirely to report ONLY those stories that support one's personal POV. 

Artful Dodger: I understand,but imagine a scenario where campaign A runs a campaign considered much more negative than campaign B.The media vote reflect much more of a bias if they didn't reflect reality.If those stats include Palin the stats are a no brainer

now if we're talking about a scenario strictly based on policy,the press owes it to the public to put forth the facts

Jim Dandy: check out The Project For Excellence In Jounalism. Here are some of their findings just out: Oct 29, 2008

In all of the media studies, 57% of McCain stories were negative while only 29% of Obama stories were negative.

Newspapers:

69% of the McCain stories were negative while only 28% of Obama stories were negative.

NBC news: 54% of the stories about McCain were negative while only 21% about Obama were found to be negative.

And now for my favorite finding:

MSNBC: 73% of the Mcain stories were negative when ONLY 14% Obama stories were negative. But how did MSNBC compare with Fox?

Fox news: 40% of the Fox stories on McCain were negative and equally (you know, as in fair and balanced) 40% of the Obama stories were negative.

Jim Dandy:  I've always liked Charlie Rose.  Not a fan of his PBS show but did love his 60 Minutes reporting.  Fact is, 60 Minutes is a life long fav of mine. Blame Andy Rooney.  He's worth the entire show IMO.  My wife says I have his eyebrows.   

Mousetrap:

Artful Dodger: We can agree to disagree on this one,I think both Fox and MSNBC are in the tank bigtime for "their" sides,but the wince factor is less when I watch MSNBC.I suppose I'd feel the warm and fuzzies if I leaned right by watching Fox...............Charlie Rose restores my sanity after watching both sides

Artful Dodger: I do the same with Mouse most wanted

Mousetrap: I watch America's Most Wanted too but only to see if my pic shows up. 

Artful Dodger: Well lets get the show on the road

Mousetrap:  I've never watched the X Factor but that's because of this:  "So many shows, so little time."  ;)

Mousetrap:

Anyone watching the X Facture tonight? There is one girl is only supposed to be 17 but the way she is done up makes her look like 40. Why would anyone want to look years older than they are?

Artful Dodger: What the heck? I have tripped on a carpet many a time but it never became a political issue

Jim Dandy  You can't get much more left than Dr Mark Lamont Hill and he's a regular on the O'Reilly factor.  O'Reilly regularly has guests that present the democratic point of view and the conservative view.  In his last show, the first two segments were equally divided to consider both points of view regarding the economy and other issue that the Presidental candidates are currently debating.  It's always that way.  And in the last week O'Reilly had only good things to say about Chris Matthews (regarding a story he broadcast).  Hannity and Colmbs are good friends and operate by strict timing rules.  And they are supposed to go after each other.  It's a big part of the concept of the program.  And you can't get any more of a class act than Brit Hume.  He was with ABC for 23 years.  According to a NY Times report, Fox has been, "...one of the most popular channels on cable for six straight years, since 2002."  That's not by accident.  That means people prefer Fox over the other cables and networks.  And by overwhelming margins.   And those chuckling journalists you mention?  They chuckle at fair and blance but it's well known by the folks that there is a huge liberal bias in the mainstream media.  Even MSNBC went after "Joe the Plumber" attempting to discredit him.  Some even suggested he was a plant.  Talk about bias.  When's the last time MSNBC ran any story about Bill Aires?  But MSNBC ran a story that blammed Palin for the injury to St. Louis Blues hockey goalie Mannie Legace.  Mannie tripped on a carpet.  The carpet was put down on the ice to prevent Palin and family from slipping on the ice.  Clutz Mannie tripped and the AP and MSNBC ran stories putting the blame on Palin.  That is typical of the left leaning meadia.  With Fox you have a very strong journalistic organization with perhaps a few weak spots.  With organizations like MSNBC, you have a very weak journalistic organization with perhaps a few strong spots. 

Artful Dodger: I watch Fox News all the time,but strictly for entertainment purposes,the "fair and balanced" motto is chuckled at by most journalists,but MSNBC is pretty much the "left's" answer to Fox,that makes sense,both markets have an audience.Olbermann has actually been gaining pretty good on The Factor in the 25-55 audience,that's the "money" audience they all target,but The Factor holds a large lead due to the older age group.Frankly I'm surprised Colmes allows himself to be laughed at and dis respected as he does with Hannity,he's basically put forth as a stooge,MSNBC shows Buccanon more respect,I kinda like Pat.As much as I may be politically similar to Olbermann,he kinda gets on my nerves at times,Mathews is the best of the bunch

Tuesday:  Fox always gets a bad rap but if you watch enough of it you'll easily see they always have both points of view represented.  It's a myth that they don't.  I watch it all the time and I'm surprised at how many liberal guests are able to represent their particular point of view.  Equally there are conservative voices that represent their view.  And more often than not, the commentator will say, "let the audience weigh the arguments and decide for themselves." 

As for NBC, they have a reputation throughout the industry as a voice for the Left.  That's true of most all mainstream media, from the print media to TV.  The Factor beats MSNBC in their time slot EVERY TIME and by twice as many viewers.  I find that interesting in light of the fact that our country leans to the left (for the moment) and yet the majority of American viewers prefer Fox over NBC, CBS, and ABC.  In some time slots, Fox beats all three networks combined.  That is no accident.  The folks recognize good journalism when they see/hear/read it.  

Artful Dodger: Yes and why they have cartoons on at 3 am is beyond me.

Tuesday:  Isn't MSNBC a cartoon network? 

Yeah I like the PC guy.  He should go on Fox.  I only watch Fox news.  Fair, and balanced 

Tuesday:  I love those too.   They crack me up.  Also the PC vrs Mac commercials are funny.

Tuesday:  Family guy is funny but it's vulgar funny.  IMO it's very bad for kids (maybe not so good for adults either) and even the "family hour" version isn't suitable for kiddies.

Foxy Lady:  Lots of the stuff on TV today that's aimed at kids is harmful IMO. 

I've had to block some out.

Dolittle:  Yep, the good old days  

Foxy Lady: In many ways life was better back then!!

Artful Dodger: I watch alot of those oldies shows and can't picture living that way.

Foxy Lady:  When I was younger I did it for three months when I was a counselor at a summer camp.  Did it for 7 years  lol

Artful Dodger: Not me

Foxy Lady:  I could for just a week.  ;)

Artful Dodger: Think back how and if you could live that way now.

Foxy Lady:  Oh yeah.  And no computers.  Forget that! 

Artful Dodger: No TV,NO Phone,outside plumbing,not me

Foxy Lady:  I could.  But not with my mom and brothers.  We're too dysfunctional.  But my daughter and son and I could get along just fine  ;)