mrloupcity , play at your own speed ,fast or slow there is no need to race to get a game finished ..they finish when they finish , if people complain about you moving slow it is THEM that is in the wrong tournaments not you

i have some games that have been running almost 14 months now and could take at least another 6 months lol ...... im a speed player when i get my finger out but there are days when i dont feel like it .
you cant make everyone happy lol

mrloupcity, don't you dare let people bully you into not playing in tournaments! If you want to play slow, that's up to you not other people.
I've played you a few times and it's always been a pleasure and you've never played slowly.

Could you move this to the tablut discussion board please?

I think the draw is a valid result. In chess, for instance, there are the three conditions for a draw ... stalemate, thrice-repeated board postions and 50 moves (plus an agreed draw). All are situations where the player who might win should be able to control the play to ensure that the draw does not occur; if they do not, then they do not deserve to win. And so, I think, it should be here. This also ties in with an earlier discussion on the advantage white appears to have in this game and one proposal was touted whereby white could not repeat a move (maybe should be board position?) to generate "perpetual check". Again, I have not found this rule on any other sites, did Linnaeus included something on this?

I think the play by white in this game was quite clever to get to the end position once it was obvious they could not escape (or maybe they were just lucky?!). The more important issue is the game was played under one set of rules and decided by another. This is not the first time rules on this site have been changed mid(post)-game. While you say the King was clearly captured, in terms of the capture rule this is not so and moving into a beavy of defenders is part of the tactics of the game, so why should it change just at the end?

I think they're in Murray's History of Board Games other than Chess. Why do you think a game like Lythande's should be drawn? The king has clearly been captured.

yeah, im having more problems again too...

It's been a little slow at times for me also.

Yeah, I powered off and reset my system, Im better now :)

Mine has been fine, King. I'm on cable.

Just me? Or is this site running on slow motion tonight?

Ughaibu: Where do you find these rules by Linnaeus?

Linnaeus himself in his original record of the rules says a win if the king cant move. I agree that the king could move into that position as long as it had the possibility of leaving.

I agree with Whisperz....

The rules were not changed, only completed.

I believe that the game should (have been) be a draw, not a win for black. One task that black must take on in this situation, where they are in such control, is to manage the situation so that they do win. If they cannot do this they do not deserve to win and playing for the draw (successfully so in this situation) should be an option for white. The rules should definitely NOT be changed mid (or post) game.

I have just checked the rules and see that there is now a 3rd win condition that I do not remember before which references the "no valid move" situation. I expect this has just been added. This scenario was previuosly discussed in the Tablut DB without any change being considered appropriate then so I don't see why one is pertinent now. I do not agree with the rule change and believe that the game (would be) is devalued with this change ... just my opinion though.

*Edit* I have just done a search of other internet sites with Tablut and other similar variants. While some rules are slightly different (number of pieces, size of board, need for King to reach the corner, capturing against the King as well as pawns) none mention a rule whereby a win is awarded against a player not able to make a valid move ... I STRONGLY believe the rule change must go.

rod, put him on your enemies list, then he can't send you any messages :o)

in backgammon too, Fencer?

now I'll wait for Dano's alter ego to invade my message box with rude remarks.. He always does when this subject comes up

lol.. solve THAT in bk 2.0!!!

:-D

rofl Fencer... i'll have to stop making those illegal moves now! ;-)

Thank you. :)

Thanks.

It was a joke. Illegal moves should not be possible to do [except some special cases, fixed in BK 2.0].

Could you explain your reply to Backoff please.

Lythande: Done.
Backoff: Who makes an illegal move, loses the game and also one or two othes ones, randomly picked :-D

how about an illegal move??? :)

Thanks, Fencer. :)

..erm.. but can you fix the game in question, or does she need to resign?

Okay, let's add a rule of player losing a game when he cannot make a legal move. Black wins in this case.

White needs to resign.

sorry, fixed

I've been searching all over the place and no1 seems to agree on the rules. So I would say that they need to be set in stone for this site. just my $.02

bumble's link does not include the www in the front of Brainking, so your cookies don't sign you on to the correct page, taking you to the log-in page.

< A HREF="/game/ShowGame?g=178202&i=13" > - best way to write it so it works for everyone (LINK)

Oh.. and Bumble? That link takes me to the login page for some odd reason... And as to 'where has Lythande gotten off to' .. I'm off reading/playing/etc in this and other tabs. ;)

Ah.. So perhaps it should be a stalemate?

just pointing out that the full rules need to be written lol. Ok in the current position, the king can't move, should this be a black win? Hummm, where's the rules when you need them lol
BTW white missed an easy win on 10 lol.

Talbut Board - Good place to read and talk more about the rules of the game.

Fencer's post on April 14, 2003 - about a similar situation as mentioned below - "Should be considered as a draw but this site does not support a perpetual check detection yet."

But the Mercenaries did not surround the king - the king "jumped" into the middle of their group.

Just like a pawn can jump in between 2 other color pawns and not be removed. (Yes, many of the rules on this site does not explain all the details - I'm sure Fencer will take help with any additional rule writing for any games) (speaking of that, Battleboats does not even have rules yet.) :-)

From the rules page:
Mercenaries surround the king from all four sides and capture him. The second possibility is that mercenaries surround the king from three sides and the throne stands on the fourth side (since nobody, including the king, cannot move to the throne). The black player wins the game.

If the king moving into that dosn't mean a black win, then the rules need to reflect that because as the rules are written now, black should have won.

Ok - Figured out the problem (After reading the Talbut message board)

Black did not surrond the white king - The white king MOVED INTO the space surroned by white pawns - which is not a lose.

Now where Lythande's game is now, White can not move at all - so I would guess what needs to happen in those cases is that it is a lose for White - maybe something Fencer will have to program sometime.

that's move 7 for white.

this should have been game.

"two moves ago" ..erm.. I meant the move before last. According to the rules, black only has to surround the white king on three sides, if the throne is on the fourth. This was done -before- I captured her last pawn, moving my soldier onto the fourth side with the throne between.

I'm no Talbut expert, but "2 moves ago" was not a win before the king was not surronded by black completly.

And like bumble said, it looks like it should be a win now - Fencer should be able to fix it once he come on-line.

UPDATED POST: Would move 7 be a win for black? The kind is surroned by 3 spots - the forth (Other side of start) is it's own white pawn, so I would not think that would count..... But again, I don't play talbut very much

Move 7 should have been game over, black wins.

Yeah, I've just looked. Black definitely wins.

No you're not missing anything, Lythande. It's happened to me before now. It's a bug and would probably be best if white resigned.

<Since Fencer isn't currently on (I've already sent him a personal message), could one of you Talbut experts please check Game ID: 178202 for me? I think it should have been a win two moves ago. Now white's king is surrounded, but the game is threatening to time out. My opponent offered a draw, but only because it was the only link she could find. ;>

Tell me if I'm missing something.

Thanks everyone... :-)

well done

Kevin I think that's great what your doing!!! Keep up the good work.

WOW!!! Good job Kevin

SOD, the hyperlinks turn a different color to indicate that you've been there done that. When the target changes in any way, it turns back to the color of an unseen page.